Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: vic on 27 March 2010, 18:25:15
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Petrol prices are "never" going to go down.
I still remember my dad said to me 'too many years ago " I don't know why they don't put petrol up to five bob a gallon and have done with it". Those were the days for those old enough to remember, and yes' I was just a 'sprog!
I drive a 2000 facelift 2.2 four pot estate and recently have been considering going dual fuel, but have no idea of the ins and outs'. What do the gas heads on the forum recomend as the best system and what sort of price should I expect to pay for the conversaion. As always your thoughts/opinions are appreciated
VC :)
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see my threads in General Car Chat, i just converted using Stag kit, which is commonly used on V6, it works very well, and is an excellent price
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To be honest it's not worth converting a 10 year-old car to LPG as you'll probably be scrapping it before you have recouped your outlay.
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To be honest it's not worth converting a 10 year-old car to LPG as you'll probably be scrapping it before you have recouped your outlay.
How do you work that out? If he's planning to do more than 10k before scrapping it then a DIY kit will have paid for itself and he'll have some money saved in his pocket :y :y
My V6 conversion was paid for within 4 months due to the mileage I do (about 30k/year) ;)
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Hi
Depends, I usually buy my cars at 10 years old and sell them when they get to 20, still running and saleable. Only reason I don't convert to gas is that my mileage is split between 3 cars, so each only does about 3,000 miles pa, and that is not enough to justify the cost of a conversion. Mind you if petrol goes up much more I may have to think again.
Alan
To be honest it's not worth converting a 10 year-old car to LPG as you'll probably be scrapping it before you have recouped your outlay.
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Hi
Depends, I usually buy my cars at 10 years old and sell them when they get to 20, still running and saleable. Only reason I don't convert to gas is that my mileage is split between 3 cars, so each only does about 3,000 miles pa, and that is not enough to justify the cost of a conversion. Mind you if petrol goes up much more I may have to think again.
Alan
To be honest it's not worth converting a 10 year-old car to LPG as you'll probably be scrapping it before you have recouped your outlay.
In your situation I wouldn't really advise a conversion, unless you were going to use one car more than the others. Even then, it would take so long to start saving it probably wouldn't be worth it :-/
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I bought mine already converted with a brc system. Only reason I bought it really. The guy paid 3k 5 years ago to have done. Costs £28 to fill the tank so almost as cheap as my company passat bluemotion diesel to run.
Downsides are the huge 80 litre tank in the boot and the fact a lot of garages Inc my local vauxhall chain won't work on it due to needing sniff testers etc. Have to keep sending it back to LPG installers but they always give it a once over while it's there. It's just come back after a new regulator ang mpg has gone up from 18 to 26!!!
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Also heard that LPG cars aren't allowed through channel tunnel ?
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Also heard that LPG cars aren't allowed through channel tunnel ?
Correct, some health and safety bod decided on that one. Why when an LPG tank is far stronger than plastic / metal filled petrol tanks, is beyond me. :-/
Train is very expensive, i use the ferry, its only about 30/45 mins longer, plus i can get a greasy breakfast
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4 pots are easy to convert to lpg.. and logical ..
if your car is in good condition (especially the ignition part) you wont have problems.. if you really like this car then you may use it longer than you planned with the lowered fuel costs.. worth it..
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To be honest it's not worth converting a 10 year-old car to LPG as you'll probably be scrapping it before you have recouped your outlay.
Completely disagree, maybe on a french car, but my 10 year old car has plenty of life left it, and cost will be re-couped in matter of months
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Also heard that LPG cars aren't allowed through channel tunnel ?
Correct. Technically, nor are any gas cylinders if you go camping.....
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Thanks for your thoughts guys, an Tunnie, "brilliant job mate, well done! Seems I've started an interesting debate, but on balance opinion appears to be in favour.The car is in good condition 65k with a fully stamped service book. Visited Black Boots and Wheels in Motion last week for the full laser alignment jobbie and it handles brilliantly. It's like driving an armchair and the load carrying capacity is second to none. Got the odd maintenance issue like any car of it's age but overall, the only reason I would sell it is because of the cost of petrol. The reason I asked the question was to get the benefit of the experience of those forum members that have the LPG, T-shirt. Given, that if I decide to go the LPG route I will likely have to have it done professionaly due to somewhat 'advanced years shall we say'.Should I go for a single point or sequential system, is one make better than another,are there installers I should avoid. I lve in the SE and accept prices are likely higher here.
VC :y
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Vic,
You are welcome to have a look over my LPG setup next time I'm visiting the mother-in-law. :y
Kevin
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with 65k miles its just ripe for LPG, loads of life left in it
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Good question, just thinking the same myself. However, my online quote came to £1700. :o
It is an 11 year old car with 153000 on the clock. :-/
MF is probably right in my case. :'(
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£1.7k is about right for a 'professional' job,
It all depends on what millage you do, and how long you will keep the car, mines at 137k, and just been done. But it runs smoother and better than 85k when i bought it.
Expect to pay around £700 DIY costs, its much cheaper and quicker to pay back this way, it also would have been done right.
If you do want to go professional route, as them this -> Do you drill the inlet manifold in place or do you remove it?
Post back what they say :y
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£1.7k is about right for a 'professional' job,
It all depends on what millage you do, and how long you will keep the car, mines at 137k, and just been done. But it runs smoother and better than 85k when i bought it.
Expect to pay around £700 DIY costs, its much cheaper and quicker to pay back this way, it also would have been done right.
If you do want to go professional route, as them this -> Do you drill the inlet manifold in place or do you remove it?
Post back what they say :y
Under £500 for 4pot, under £600 for v6 ;)
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£1.7k is about right for a 'professional' job,
It all depends on what millage you do, and how long you will keep the car, mines at 137k, and just been done. But it runs smoother and better than 85k when i bought it.
Expect to pay around £700 DIY costs, its much cheaper and quicker to pay back this way, it also would have been done right.
If you do want to go professional route, as them this -> Do you drill the inlet manifold in place or do you remove it?
Post back what they say :y
Under £500 for 4pot, under £600 for v6 ;)
Thats if someone answers their phone ::)
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At under £600 it starts to sound interesting even on low annual mileage. Question though, how warm does the engine have to be before the gas cuts in? Be a shame to still run on petrol right up to the company car park after only a 4.5 mile commute.
Steve
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I can't say on the stag system .. but my BRC system is on gas within 1/2 a mile from overnight usually. It did get to 1 mile when the temp was down to -5 !!! If the car has been used within the last 3 hours it is less than 30 seconds.
The BRC system CANNOT be started on gas as it uses a pressure switch on the gas manifold as a control... I believe some systems can be started on gas however
HTH :)
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if warm started mine cuts in at 10 seconds, apart from a relay clicking in the boot you cannot tell!
Cold start, takes about 30 seconds to 1 min, its slightly slower than the V6, as i find the 4pots take an age to warm up from cold
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£1.7k is about right for a 'professional' job,
It all depends on what millage you do, and how long you will keep the car, mines at 137k, and just been done. But it runs smoother and better than 85k when i bought it.
Expect to pay around £700 DIY costs, its much cheaper and quicker to pay back this way, it also would have been done right.
If you do want to go professional route, as them this -> Do you drill the inlet manifold in place or do you remove it?
Post back what they say :y
important question.. I was planning to install a BRC system .. a friend behaved quicker and installed this system and they did exactly drill in situ.. :o
and when I asked they say the drill bits work reverse ..
DA.. ;D ;D I give up.. :(
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Re cut in temp:-
Not the issue I thought it was then.
Cheers guys
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if warm started mine cuts in at 10 seconds, apart from a relay clicking in the boot you cannot tell!
Cold start, takes about 30 seconds to 1 min, its slightly slower than the V6, as i find the 4pots take an age to warm up from cold
Only because that's what we set it to... Could have set it to anything from 1 second up (IIRCC) but, because of the startup enrichment, it makes sense to get moving before it switches :y :y
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£1.7k is about right for a 'professional' job,
It all depends on what millage you do, and how long you will keep the car, mines at 137k, and just been done. But it runs smoother and better than 85k when i bought it.
Expect to pay around £700 DIY costs, its much cheaper and quicker to pay back this way, it also would have been done right.
If you do want to go professional route, as them this -> Do you drill the inlet manifold in place or do you remove it?
Post back what they say :y
Under £500 for 4pot, under £600 for v6 ;)
Wanna do mine when I get it? LOL ;D
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there are three very important points often overlooked.....
ONE. you can still drive a petrol without having to consider diseasel
TWO. LPG has at least 110 octane and possibly 120 according to who you talk to - so huge performance potential
THREE. it gives you the chance to stick two fingers up to the one-eyed Scottish idiot - and it's got to be worth £1700 just to do that.
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TWO. LPG has at least 110 octane and possibly 120 according to who you talk to - so huge performance potential
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Worth having a look at liquid phase LPG injection on the performance front. Not far off the energy density of petrol with a built-in chargecooler. :y
Kevin
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Hi i am also considering LPG for my 2.2 cdx 53 plate can anyone tell me if the MPG readout still works when your on LPG. [smiley=huh.gif]
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Hi i am also considering LPG for my 2.2 cdx 53 plate can anyone tell me if the MPG readout still works when your on LPG. [smiley=huh.gif]
YES it does .. but the readout is as if you were still using petrol .... :)
The LPG ECU does NOT replace the petrol ECU, it works "with" it ... and just switches off the injectors, so all the MID features still "thinks" you are burning petrol .. :)
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Hi i am also considering LPG for my 2.2 cdx 53 plate can anyone tell me if the MPG readout still works when your on LPG. [smiley=huh.gif]
YES it does .. but the readout is as if you were still using petrol .... :)
The LPG ECU does NOT replace the petrol ECU, it works "with" it ... and just switches off the injectors, so all the MID features still "thinks" you are burning petrol .. :)
How accurate have you found it?
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MMM!!! interesting thanks for that,the quote ive had to do the job is £1275 + vat not sure what system it is but he said he fits a drip feed bottle to lubricate the valves is this right. [smiley=undecided.gif]
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MMM!!! interesting thanks for that,the quote ive had to do the job is £1275 + vat not sure what system it is but he said he fits a drip feed bottle to lubricate the valves is this right. [smiley=undecided.gif]
Valve lubrication is new one on me :-/
£1.2k is tad cheap for 'professional' conversion.
Ask them easy question: 'Do you drill the manifolds in place, or remove them?' :)
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MMM!!! interesting thanks for that,the quote ive had to do the job is £1275 + vat not sure what system it is but he said he fits a drip feed bottle to lubricate the valves is this right. [smiley=undecided.gif]
Valve protection comes under several names ... it was fitted to mine as part of the "deal" but all my research says it is NOT required for the Vauxhall engines of this era .. certainly the V6 version anyway.... :) As I've got it on I use it at a very low level on the grounds it can't do any harm.
There are quite a few threads dotted about, some quite old, on LPG conversion .. well worth a bit of research IMHO
I paid a lot for mine, it is about the only non-diy that the guys on here "who know" reckon is even half-decent.
I spent a long time researching the conversion ... and if the place could/would not give me names/telephone numbers of previously converted omega's I was not interested. I found the place that did mine, near Kevin Woods as it happens, they had done V6 Omega conversions and were happy to give me contact details once they had checked with the contact ( a little touch I thought good). I spoke to those folks and the answers made up my mind.
I have absolutely no regrets in either having it done , or the way I chose (non-DIY), although if I were in that position now I'd probably be buying certain members large amounts of beer and asking them to help me do it.. :)
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MMM!!! interesting thanks for that,the quote ive had to do the job is £1275 + vat not sure what system it is but he said he fits a drip feed bottle to lubricate the valves is this right. [smiley=undecided.gif]
Valve protection comes under several names ... it was fitted to mine as part of the "deal" but all my research says it is NOT required for the Vauxhall engines of this era .. certainly the V6 version anyway.... :) As I've got it on I use it at a very low level on the grounds it can't do any harm.
There are quite a few threads dotted about, some quite old, on LPG conversion .. well worth a bit of research IMHO
I paid a lot for mine, it is about the only non-diy that the guys on here "who know" reckon is even half-decent.
I spent a long time researching the conversion ... and if the place could/would not give me names/telephone numbers of previously converted omega's I was not interested. I found the place that did mine, near Kevin Woods as it happens, they had done V6 Omega conversions and were happy to give me contact details once they had checked with the contact ( a little touch I thought good). I spoke to those folks and the answers made up my mind.
I have absolutely no regrets in either having it done , or the way I chose (non-DIY), although if I were in that position now I'd probably be buying certain members large amounts of beer and asking them to help me do it.. :)
I'll re-phrase that Entwood... It's the only "Professional" LPG conversion I've seen which passes my standards :y :y
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Thanks for that LD .. :)
As for valve lubrication ... more info can be found here ..
http://www.flashlube.com
and there is quite a bit of info also, on the whole LPG thing
http://my90.co.uk/lpg/index.php?sid=218c3710766bb28ae82bbbee2990fe67
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How accurate have you found it?
Without burning any petrol to use as a reference it's difficult to say. I find mine is more pessimistic on gas than petrol. It used to average around 27 on petrol and now it's normally around 24.
This may be because the LPG system is not mapped that accurately (There will always be speed/load combinations where the ECU has to chuck in a load of fuel trim) or because the engine output is slightly reduced on LPG and therefore is running at a higher apparent load as a result.
I must admit I don't really use it now I'm on LPG, partly because it's pretty meaningless and partly because LPG's so cheap I don't care as much. ;)
Any early indications of LPG consumption from the 2.2?
Kevin
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How accurate have you found it?
Without burning any petrol to use as a reference it's difficult to say. I find mine is more pessimistic on gas than petrol. It used to average around 27 on petrol and now it's normally around 24.
This may be because the LPG system is not mapped that accurately (There will always be speed/load combinations where the ECU has to chuck in a load of fuel trim) or because the engine output is slightly reduced on LPG and therefore is running at a higher apparent load as a result.
I must admit I don't really use it now I'm on LPG, partly because it's pretty meaningless and partly because LPG's so cheap I don't care as much. ;)
Any early indications of LPG consumption from the 2.2?
Kevin
Wouldn't that be about right, given people have said mpg is around 10% lower on gas?
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Mine gives "correct" mpg as if I was running on petrol, and it checks out with my "assumed" petrol consumptions for my spreadsheet.
Yes, LPG consumption in mpg terms is about 10% worse .. due simply to the fact it weighs less !!!, however the TRUE specific fuel consumption in terms of pence per mile is still around 40% better.
Over just over 20,000 miles the cost per mile in petrol has averaged 23.26 (estimated but confirmed by MID) against 14.18 pence per mile for LPG .. a saving of 9.08 pence /mile or 39.03%
And that includes a LOT of towing miles when the consumption of both is much higher than yours will be.. :)
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How accurate have you found it?
Without burning any petrol to use as a reference it's difficult to say. I find mine is more pessimistic on gas than petrol. It used to average around 27 on petrol and now it's normally around 24.
This may be because the LPG system is not mapped that accurately (There will always be speed/load combinations where the ECU has to chuck in a load of fuel trim) or because the engine output is slightly reduced on LPG and therefore is running at a higher apparent load as a result.
I must admit I don't really use it now I'm on LPG, partly because it's pretty meaningless and partly because LPG's so cheap I don't care as much. ;)
Any early indications of LPG consumption from the 2.2?
Kevin
Not yet, only burned one tanks worth so far, and that was from bone dry tank, also just rotated it, so not accurate yet. Got to go to work on Friday! :o The cheek of it! ;D
Should be a good test to see what i am getting.