Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: georgie on 03 August 2008, 14:43:49
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Hi,
Didnt have any leaks on short journeys. Approached the motorway changed down to slow, it didnt slow but I got a CHECK auto box, light instead.
Went (very bravely/foolishly) on the motorway at 70+ and it spit out most of its oil :exclamation
It came out of the bottom of the bell housing. Smoke, overheated ticking noises etc, very frightening, well, not the smoke but the thought of being 100 miles from home and in the jaws of the big bill monster. >:(
I got a Peugot garage mechanic to put 2 litres in and off we went, (less 30 quid cash), be it at 60mph without any manual changing down to slow the car.
The most amazing thing was that when I got home an parked it on card board expecting to see an imprint of the omega on the ground, to find that there was no leak and the previously leaked oil had blown away and there wasnt even a drip in sight!! :y
Could it be that it spits oil from the front gearbox oil seal only at speed, if so why?(internal problem or just bad seal)
Or does it spit oil because of my manual change down to slow the car and that generates extra pressures in the box that forces oil past the seal???
I'm determined to sort it out with a little help from experienced forum members.
It done 169k I think its an AR25 GM4L30E
Thanks
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if its only leaking when running thst points to the torque converter leaking buddy, which id bad news for you, if it was leaking all the time could be ythe first motion shaft seal but i doubt it!!
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Might be worth checking the breather tube from the top rear of the gearbox is routed up high behind the engine and hasn't dropped down, but if it's definately coming from the bell housing it's the torque converter oil seal or a crack in the converter itself, I'd say.
Have a careful look to see if it's not from one of the joints in the gearbox casing too, as these are apparently prone to leaking.
Kevin
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Hi
Thanks for the suggestions.
If it was the torque convertor that was leaking wouldnt it do so most of the time? When i accelarate hard its ok, its also ok when doing 60mph. I feel that it either comes out at highish speed 80mph or when shifting down manually.Also it seems to coming from the square hole at the bottom of the bell housing, I'm going to double check the breather, I'll know what it look s like when I find it!.
All gaskets are bone dry.
With what you guys are suggesting, it points to a torque convertor seal?? What does one look like and how does it fit? I presume a neoprene lip seal on the primary shaft that goesinto the torque covertor. Its about 25 years ago since I,ve seen one! (and I wasnt so interested, Doh)
If anyone has some pictures that would help a lot.
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The T.C/mainshaft is a lip-seal with a 'garter-spring'; click this link http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1183142571: picture two, shows the space in the pump housing where the torque-converter seal sits (located/retained in the housing by three machine-screws).
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Hi Thanks for the reply and link, the pictures are so good, that it leaves nothing to the imagination.
I feel a lot more confident about doing the work, looks simple enough.
Just need muscles like pop eye to lift it in and out.
Many thanks
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When you do get it apart, check that the nose of the torque converter is not scored and that it's a reasonably tight fit into the gearbox. The bushing into which the torque converter nose fits can wear, causing excessive runout of the torque converter nose which the seal can't cope with.
Also, always remove and refit the torque converter and gearbox as one unit. Don't be tempted to slide the grarbox onto / off the torque converter splines as this can damage the torque converter and the bushing.
Kevin
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Had this problem.
When we got it apart there was bad scoring on the torque converter and this had badly damage the seal.
Fitted a refurbished torgue converter approx £200
new seal about £20
new front bush £25.
All is running ok done about 30k miles no problem.
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Thanks for that.
Does the bushing knock out easily?
Any pictures??
What mileage had yours done before the problems???
Its the first time that I've shared my problems on a forum and I'm very grateful to all that have responded.
many thanks
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The bush just pushed out using a vice and some spaces.
the car had done about 155k miles when it went wrong, now up to 199.5K miles still going strong. :)
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If you are tempted to drive it in the meantime, you should be aware that if it really did dump all its oil (doubtful), then 2 L is nothing like enough to refill it. a regular oil change takes 6-7 litres and even that leaves a fair bit in the car
I'm also puzzled why you are manually downshifting to slow down - what's wrong with the brake?
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Hi,
The man said he put in 2 litres until it wouldnt take more. I'm not sure whether it should be done with the engine running or not, I dont know how he did it either.
If he did it whilst not running the level will be still below what it should be I assume. Must get under the damn thing and have alook myself, annoying but reliable.
As for down shifting, I'm more of a manual sort of guy, and feel that sticking it into a bend just on brakes isnt the best way to get around corners. Also when going down a long hill, it helps slow the car without heating the brakes, again just how a manual would be driven. Besides its in the handbook.
In Australia I had a Ford Falcon 4litre which was a lot of fun doing this (if you timed the changedown to apex of the bend correctly) you got a nice bit of oversteer :y.
I can hear you saying "No wonder his gearbox is knackered."
Wait till I get the engine chipped.
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Gearbox should be topped up with the car level and the engine running after shifting through each gear position. If it wasn't running there won't be enough fluid in it because the torque converter will have partially drained.
Kevin
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Hi,
The man said he put in 2 litres until it wouldnt take more. I'm not sure whether it should be done with the engine running or not, I dont know how he did it either.
If he did it whilst not running the level will be still below what it should be I assume. Must get under the darn thing and have alook myself, annoying but reliable.
As for down shifting, I'm more of a manual sort of guy, and feel that sticking it into a bend just on brakes isnt the best way to get around corners. Also when going down a long hill, it helps slow the car without heating the brakes, again just how a manual would be driven. Besides its in the handbook.
In Australia I had a Ford Falcon 4litre which was a lot of fun doing this (if you timed the changedown to apex of the bend correctly) you got a nice bit of oversteer :y.
I can hear you saying "No wonder his gearbox is knackered."
Wait till I get the engine chipped.
Where in Bucks are you? I know a man who does tractor chips in Oxfordshire ;)
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I'm in Edlesborough, its in the countryside. All the farmers would be green with envy if I had this chip fitted.
Whats the address of the nearest chip shop in this area?
Also does anyone know how fast they go after being chipped?
Is it as fast as scrapping an Omega when autoboxes break?
I think I need a break..
Thanks for your moral and technical support, I didnt think my problems would be so funny.. great forum
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I still dont know why it dumped a lot of its oil, but I did find the small leak that made it necessary fro regular top ups. It may be that it had run a little low before it overheated and smoked itself.
The leak may be of interest as I fixed it for about 2.50p its a lip seal size of a ten p coin that sits in the side of the box with a selector rod going thru it. It ages since I did it so cant remember all the details but if it is leaking dont be scared off and start scrapping your omega just jack it up and an hour later youd have fishe out the seal and pressed in a new one. If anyone wants further info pls get in touch Ill climb under the car again and describe things better.
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You will be advised not to chip until you have replaced the AR25 with an AR35, as the AR25 will not take the increased torque for long. I am a bad example, as I have done 28000 since chipping, and still on the original AR25. However, I now have an AR35 as a standby.
As you are dropping the box anyway, it makes sense to replace it with an AR35.
HTH :y
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You will be advised not to chip until you have replaced the AR25 with an AR35, as the AR25 will not take the increased torque for long. I am a bad example, as I have done 28000 since chipping, and still on the original AR25. However, I now have an AR35 as a standby.
As you are dropping the box anyway, it makes sense to replace it with an AR35.
HTH :y
as above :y [smiley=smiley_up.gif]
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Hi
I fixed my ar25 in situ, had to do it quick because of block paved drive.
What difference is there in the mountings prop etc to the ar35 ? or is it straight swap.??