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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: V6Astra F on 20 April 2010, 09:01:09

Title: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: V6Astra F on 20 April 2010, 09:01:09
Hi

I need to replace the front crankshaft oil seal on the 3.2 . The problem is we dont have a pneumatic wrench and we have tried to leave the car in gear with someone applying the brakes but we could not get it to budge . Some guys talk about using a strongbar thats jammed up against the chassis and with the coilpack disconnected swing the motor for 1/2 a second to loosen it , but how safe is that . Heres a picture of my problem .
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Angeleyed200is/19042010314.jpg)
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 April 2010, 09:14:59
You must NOT use any of the methods you describe.

You need to make up a tool that bolts in place of the front pulley to hold the crank.

If you try and lock it or rotate it at the flywheel end, you will strip the woodruff key off the bottom crank sprocket
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 April 2010, 09:18:14
What you need to do is to lock the pulley itself in  position, not the crank.

Remove the 6 outer bolts and split the pulley so you're left with just the inner section. Then make up a bracket that locates on a couple of the holes where the 6 bolts were, and bolts to a convenient hole on the block (perhaps a water pump or cam belt idler mounting bolt).

With the inner pulley locked in place you should be able to remove the bolt. A daily dousing in plus gas for a week before removal will help.

Locking the crank risks shearing off the woodroffe key that located the pulley. You need to lock the pulley itself.

I wouldn't use an impact wrench except as a last resort, personally. I doubt you'd get enough torque from one anyway.

A long breaker bar and a fat git on the end of it are what you need. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 April 2010, 09:18:55
D'oh! Too slow. :(

kevin
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: V6Astra F on 20 April 2010, 09:20:46
Thanks for the info guys  :y :y
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Andy B on 20 April 2010, 09:28:18
Quote
......
I doubt you'd get enough torque from one anyway.

 ......

You do on an Astra  ;)
I've used the spin-the-starter method of removal in the past & also beat-it-with-a-lump-hammer method. I disagree that the woodruff key has a possibilty of shearing. there are loads of purpose made tools for locking fly wheels via the starter ring clicky (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=flywheel+locking+tool&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&start=0)
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 April 2010, 09:31:43
Quote
Quote
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I doubt you'd get enough torque from one anyway.

 ......

You do on an Astra  ;)
I've used the spin-the-starter method of removal in the past & also beat-it-with-a-lump-hammer method. I disagree that the woodruff key has a possibilty of shearing. there are loads of purpose made tools for locking fly wheels via the starter ring clicky (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=flywheel+locking+tool&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&start=0)

Well your wrong in this application Andy, on the V6 the key is part of the lower crank pulley which is a sintered part so very brittle........place any stress on it and it shears straight off
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: 2woody on 20 April 2010, 09:32:14
I always grind them off.

remove the damper outer pulley ( six torx-headed screws ) the centre bolt is then fully visible. chop off level with an angle-grinder, making sure that you don't touch the damper.

when you're close to the end-game, the bolt will come out by hand ( careful - hot )

fit a new bolt and you're away.
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Andy B on 20 April 2010, 09:33:24
Quote
Quote
Quote
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I doubt you'd get enough torque from one anyway.

 ......

You do on an Astra  ;)
I've used the spin-the-starter method of removal in the past & also beat-it-with-a-lump-hammer method. I disagree that the woodruff key has a possibilty of shearing. there are loads of purpose made tools for locking fly wheels via the starter ring clicky (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=flywheel+locking+tool&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&start=0)

Well your wrong in this application Andy, on the V6 the key is part of the lower crank pulley which is a sintered part so very brittle........place any stress on it and it shears straight off

We've had the same conversation before  ;)  ::)
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 April 2010, 09:33:24
But you still need to counter hold it to re-tighten to close on 300Nm
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Andy B on 20 April 2010, 09:35:12
Quote
But you still need to counter hold it to re-tighten to close on 300Nm

there's now no bolt head to tighten up against the end of the crank shaft  ;)
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 April 2010, 09:36:34
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
......
I doubt you'd get enough torque from one anyway.

 ......

You do on an Astra  ;)
I've used the spin-the-starter method of removal in the past & also beat-it-with-a-lump-hammer method. I disagree that the woodruff key has a possibilty of shearing. there are loads of purpose made tools for locking fly wheels via the starter ring clicky (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=flywheel+locking+tool&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&start=0)

Well your wrong in this application Andy, on the V6 the key is part of the lower crank pulley which is a sintered part so very brittle........place any stress on it and it shears straight off

We've had the same conversation before  ;)  ::)

As said, its very different on the Astra, the bolt is fitted to only half the torque and the pulley is a pressed steel assembly.

General purpose tools available or not, on the V6 you will shaft your crank sprocket.....

Horses for courses, and on the V6 its a definately do not  ;D
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Andy B on 20 April 2010, 09:39:25
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
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I doubt you'd get enough torque from one anyway.

 ......

You do on an Astra  ;)
I've used the spin-the-starter method of removal in the past & also beat-it-with-a-lump-hammer method. I disagree that the woodruff key has a possibilty of shearing. there are loads of purpose made tools for locking fly wheels via the starter ring clicky (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=flywheel+locking+tool&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&start=0)

Well your wrong in this application Andy, on the V6 the key is part of the lower crank pulley which is a sintered part so very brittle........place any stress on it and it shears straight off

We've had the same conversation before  ;)  ::)

As said, its very different on the Astra, the bolt is fitted to only half the torque and the pulley is a pressed steel assembly.

General purpose tools available or not, on the V6 you will shaft your crank sprocket.....

Horses for courses, and on the V6 its a definately do not  ;D

As I have no plans to remove the pulley from my car ..... I shouldn't have need to worry  :y  ;D
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 April 2010, 09:39:51
Quote
Quote
But you still need to counter hold it to re-tighten to close on 300Nm

there's now no bolt head to tighten up against the end of the crank shaft  ;)

Lol, I am assuming that a joke


When refitting, you need a new bolt (you should use a new bolt anyway)......and on re-tightening, the bolt flange applies a turning motion to the crank pulley as it tightens....hence it can yet again tear the woodruff key off and worse still....result in a crank pulley that is no longer correctly timed to the crank.  :o
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: V6Astra F on 20 April 2010, 09:41:40
Will something like this work , might be able to make one  :)
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Angeleyed200is/crankshaft_tool.jpg)
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 April 2010, 09:43:25
Yes, that would work ok.....the Vx tool locks onto the alternator bolts
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Andy B on 20 April 2010, 09:46:27
Quote
....
Lol, I am assuming that a joke ....

No :-? You're tightening the back of the bolt head up against the front face of the pulley when yoou torque it up. If the bolt had is no longer there .... you've now just got a threaded stud in the end of the crank.
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: V6Astra F on 20 April 2010, 09:47:32
Great !! Will keep you guys posted , just worried that it might get worse . Or is it normal for it to be weeping as mutch as mine is at the moment ?
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 April 2010, 10:31:54
Quote
Quote
....
Lol, I am assuming that a joke ....

No :-? You're tightening the back of the bolt head up against the front face of the pulley when yoou torque it up. If the bolt had is no longer there .... you've now just got a threaded stud in the end of the crank.

Yeh.........and how are you now going to secure your crank sprocket?

Your bolt is knackerd, the remains of your old bolt are to short to form a stud.
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Andy B on 20 April 2010, 11:07:04
Quote
Quote
Quote
....
Lol, I am assuming that a joke ....

No :-? You're tightening the back of the bolt head up against the front face of the pulley when yoou torque it up. If the bolt had is no longer there .... you've now just got a threaded stud in the end of the crank.

Yeh.........and how are you now going to secure your crank sprocket?

Your bolt is knackerd, the remains of your old bolt are to short to form a stud.

I was agreeing with the method of removal, not whether you'd be able to re-use anything of what you've just ground off.
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 20 April 2010, 16:38:36
I have a perfect tool custom made for this job.... you're welcome to borrow if, if you promise I'll get it back...  :y
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: V6Astra F on 21 April 2010, 10:31:35
Quote
I have a perfect tool custom made for this job.... you're welcome to borrow if, if you promise I'll get it back...  :y

Wow thats a very kind of you  :y , pitty im in South Africa thou . Have started making one for me this side so hold thumbs for me . How long does it take to replace that seal if you get the pulley off , going to try it saturday after work .

Thanks :)
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Andy B on 21 April 2010, 10:48:39
Quote
Quote
I have a perfect tool custom made for this job.... you're welcome to borrow if, if you promise I'll get it back...  :y

Wow thats a very kind of you  :y , pitty im in South Africa thou . Have started making one for me this side so hold thumbs for me . How long does it take to replace that seal if you get the pulley off , going to try it saturday after work .

Thanks :)

Can't you see the face of seal with the outer part of the pulley removed?  :-/ I thought you could. If so, if you're just removing the seal, try drilling 3 or 4 small holes & screwing a self tapper in there. You now have something to ease the old seal out with.  :y
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 April 2010, 10:49:46
No tlong.

Once the seal is out remove the metal bush that sits on the crank (the inner lip of the seal runs on this), clean it with very fine wet and dry and fit back the opposite way round so the new lip seal is not running in the original wear groove.
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: V6Astra F on 21 April 2010, 11:04:48
Thanks guys will see if I can do it this weekend  :y
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 April 2010, 11:19:17
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
....
Lol, I am assuming that a joke ....

No :-? You're tightening the back of the bolt head up against the front face of the pulley when yoou torque it up. If the bolt had is no longer there .... you've now just got a threaded stud in the end of the crank.

Yeh.........and how are you now going to secure your crank sprocket?

Your bolt is knackerd, the remains of your old bolt are to short to form a stud.

I was agreeing with the method of removal, not whether you'd be able to re-use anything of what you've just ground off.

And i was pointing out that you have not gained anything as you still need a tool to tighten the new bolt up  :y
Title: Re: 3.2 V6 Crankshaft bolt removal
Post by: Andy B on 21 April 2010, 11:28:39
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
....
Lol, I am assuming that a joke ....

No :-? You're tightening the back of the bolt head up against the front face of the pulley when yoou torque it up. If the bolt had is no longer there .... you've now just got a threaded stud in the end of the crank.

Yeh.........and how are you now going to secure your crank sprocket?

Your bolt is knackerd, the remains of your old bolt are to short to form a stud.

I was agreeing with the method of removal, not whether you'd be able to re-use anything of what you've just ground off.

And i was pointing out that you have not gained anything as you still need a tool to tighten the new bolt up  :y

at last we agree! ;D  ;D  I have to admit that the last crank I did up was only a guestimate with a large knocking stick!  ::)  ::)