Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: russ b on 08 June 2010, 21:36:53

Title: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 08 June 2010, 21:36:53
hi looking to get caravan in summer. would like to know what weight limit i have and any mods (sensible) to make car better towing vehicle. also i have noticed alot of pics here with migs pulling twin axles is this ok? i thought this was for 4x4s only oh and can someone give me some advice on wiring towbar up :y :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 08 June 2010, 21:53:57
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hi looking to get caravan in summer. would like to know what weight limit i have and any mods (sensible) to make car better towing vehicle. also i have noticed alot of pics here with migs pulling twin axles is this ok? i thought this was for 4x4s only oh and can someone give me some advice on wiring towbar up :y :y

the only mod I've done to my car for towing, is to fit a towbar  ;D If auto, there's already a cooler fitted to the gearbox that will work well enough.
As to max weights, you can tow weight for weight if you like, although the caravan club suggests you stick to 85% of the weight of your car if you're inexperienced. Whether it has 2 or one axles is irrelevent really, it's the weightthat matters, although my caravan is a single, it was available as a twin at more or less te same weight.

12N & 12S wiring? Have a look here .....  :y
http://www.western-towing.co.uk/acatalog/Trailer_Caravan_12N_12S_wiring_diagram.html
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: sport on 08 June 2010, 21:55:29
Hi i have 2.2 estate and my tow limit is 1600 kg so long the caravan is no more than 1600 kg laden .
Mine tows ok but some use spring assister's 
Look in your manual should tell you your tow limit
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 08 June 2010, 21:59:09
Quote
Hi i have 2.2 estate and my tow limit is 1600 kg so long the caravan is no more than 1600 kg laden .
Mine tows ok but some use spring assister's 
Look in your manual should tell you your tow limit

tha hand book will tell you what the car is able to pull up a ??? degree slope, not what you're allowed to pull on the road.  ;)
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 08 June 2010, 22:25:59
that link is great thanks andy, i am aware that there is a connection plug somewhere by back panel any links orguides about on how to connect to it?? :-?
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 08 June 2010, 22:40:27
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that link is great thanks andy, i am aware that there is a connection plug somewhere by back panel any links orguides about on how to connect to it?? :-?

It's behind the grey/black trim at the very rear of your boot. (we need a how to for this ....  ::)) All the correct wires are already in a square-ish plug/socket, but be aware that the brake light is via a relay base mounted at the front of the car (behind glove box on facelift - above driver's feet on prefacelift cars) that is intended for a trailer check control 'relay' (90463123 around £20). You either need this 'relay' or bridge the base connections to feed the brake light wire in the boot.

car loom ....... car ................... 12N
black/blue ......  rear fog .........  blue
black/white ......left turn .......... yellow
black/green .....right turn .........green
grey/black .......left tail .............black
grey/red...........right tail ...........brown
black/yellow......brake lights .....red
brown ..............earth ...............white
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Cliffo B on 08 June 2010, 22:53:44
About twin axle's verses single I think goes something like this--The + A nice stable tow without a lot of nosewieght  issues, The-Difficult to manouver specially on soft ground although mover technology is improving on the 4 wheel front. I think theres one with a motor on each wheel. Omegas can handle most caravans if you keep to the 80% rule they are after all RWD.This gives the edge on most other cars for towing.
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: same #same# on 08 June 2010, 23:07:14
take caravan out and test that the caravan braking suites your braking as can cause a pull back if wronge and loose steering, :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Cliffo B on 08 June 2010, 23:07:59
Something else I would consider if you don't have self levelling suspension, have Monroe Ride Levellers fitted you won't be sorry.
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 08 June 2010, 23:18:01
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take caravan out and test that the caravan braking suites your braking as can cause a pull back if wronge and loose steering, :y

que? As you brake, your caravan will catch you up, this pulls a rod under the caravan & applies the 'vans brakes. If the 'van slows down faster than the car, then the hitch will extend again & release the brakes
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 08 June 2010, 23:22:59
outstanding info thanks a lot guys. andy that info will save me hours of aggro. i have witter towbar just need bush/bolt kit and im away i think its only about 15quid from witter??
it would seem the twin axle is the way to go if only because it holds its weight better reducing weight on towbar.  :y :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: same #same# on 08 June 2010, 23:27:33
Quote
Quote
take caravan out and test that the caravan braking suites your braking as can cause a pull back if wronge and loose steering, :y

que? As you brake, your caravan will catch you up, this pulls a rod under the caravan & applies the 'vans brakes. If the 'van slows down faster than the car, then the hitch will extend again & release the brakes
if to loose on the brakes (cravan) causes aslow stop had mine set at caravan garage as it was set for dif car, when caravan loaded and boot loaded, pushed down on back and lifted front of car up. only did it when had to stop fast. then the pull back is worse,
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 08 June 2010, 23:29:07
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outstanding info thanks a lot guys. andy that info will save me hours of aggro. i have witter towbar just need bush/bolt kit and im away i think its only about 15quid from witter??
it would seem the twin axle is the way to go if only because it holds its weight better reducing weight on towbar.  :y :y

Bear in mind though that twin axles tend to be quite big, and you're using a 2.0 litre to pull it, you might struggle on some hills  ::)  ::) If you get your loading correct, there's no reason that the back end of an ordinary shocker'd (is that a word?  ::)) car wouldn't cope with 75kgs-ish nose weight.  :y  :y

Almost forgot ..... you'll need a 4 pin flasher unit instead of your 3 pin and a lamp in the dash for your visual indication of your indicators working.  :y  :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Entwood on 08 June 2010, 23:33:23
Some folks think a twin axle actually puts MORE stress on the towbar/suspension than a single does.

Theory is that on a single the van pivots about the axle and the forces on the car change smoothly in a "rotational" manner, following the movement of the towcar. On a twin the caravan cannot pivot but can only move in a sort of vertical motion, so that the car and van move at different times as objects are traversed. This has a tendency to "lift" then "drop" the forces on the towcar.

I agree that a twin can be more stable in a side-to-side plane as the "tandem" wheels tend to stop "wandering".

I've been towing for over 25 years, but never a twin, although I have towed a twin axle car trailer, hated it, it pulled the car out of shape on every bump.

Omega is without doubt the best towcar I've had, bar none.
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: sport on 09 June 2010, 00:29:29
Quote
Quote
Hi i have 2.2 estate and my tow limit is 1600 kg so long the caravan is no more than 1600 kg laden .
Mine tows ok but some use spring assister's 
Look in your manual should tell you your tow limit

tha hand book will tell you what the car is able to pull up a ??? degree slope, not what you're allowed to pull on the road.  ;)

In my manual it tells me my max braked towing limit is 1600 kg .And the max nose weight is 75 kg
Ive tested nose weight its about 80 kg and it rides level
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: henryd on 09 June 2010, 00:37:25
Quote


Omega is without doubt the best towcar I've had, bar none.

+1,I have towed with many different cars and 4x4s and the mig is the best so far :y :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 09 June 2010, 00:40:29
i don't know what you mean by 3pin and 4 pin, sorry i am novice to all this.  :o
i thought that when you plugged in van that there was an audible/buzzer when indicators applied  :-/
is it true that length of van shouldn't exceed car length??
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 09 June 2010, 00:41:56
does anyone think that a section on towing and caravans should be started there seems to be strong feedback here and a bit of intel/interest?? :y :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: henryd on 09 June 2010, 00:55:45
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i don't know what you mean by 3pin and 4 pin, sorry i am novice to all this.  :o
i thought that when you plugged in van that there was an audible/buzzer when indicators applied  :-/
is it true that length of van shouldn't exceed car length??

it can either be an audible buzzer or a tell tale lamp to show that the indicators on the trailer are operating
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: same #same# on 09 June 2010, 02:35:57
Quote
Quote
Quote
Hi i have 2.2 estate and my tow limit is 1600 kg so long the caravan is no more than 1600 kg laden .
Mine tows ok but some use spring assister's 
Look in your manual should tell you your tow limit

tha hand book will tell you what the car is able to pull up a ??? degree slope, not what you're allowed to pull on the road.  ;)

In my manual it tells me my max braked towing limit is 1600 kg .And the max nose weight is 75 kg
Ive tested nose weight its about 80 kg and it rides level
have you a 5kg gas bottle in the front???
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 08:54:48
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i don't know what you mean by 3pin and 4 pin, sorry i am novice to all this.  :o
i thought that when you plugged in van that there was an audible/buzzer when indicators applied  :-/
is it true that length of van shouldn't exceed car length??

Unplug the flasher unit already fitted to the car, it's in the fusebox under the steering column, turn the indicators on & feel which relay is clicking. When you have unplugged it, you'll see that it had been plugged in with 3 pins/connectors. If you go into Halfords or elsewhere, you'll see that you can buy a flasher relay with an extra connector on in ie 4 - this is now what you want. Remove your dash, fit a lamp in the space that Vauxhall provided for a trailer tell tale and that's it. When you indicate with a trailer on, it can tell whether your trailer is indicating & flash the extra lamp in tandem. If the trailer indicator has failed, then the tell tale doesn't flash.
Or you can fit a crappy buzzer in the boot to tell you the same thing.   :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Impact Pete on 09 June 2010, 09:25:15
Quote
hi looking to get caravan in summer. would like to know what weight limit i have and any mods (sensible) to make car better towing vehicle. also i have noticed alot of pics here with migs pulling twin axles is this ok? i thought this was for 4x4s only oh and can someone give me some advice on wiring towbar up :y :y

There was also a change in what you can tow weight wise without the extra bit on your licence, there are a lot of younger caravaners blissfully unaware they are illegally towing on their licence.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022564
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: hoofing it on 09 June 2010, 09:39:48
For the car towing limit look at the plate inside the drivers door (omega) this gives max axle loads+towing weights :y.
P.S. does your liscence allow you to tow over 750kg
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 09:44:08
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....
P.S. does your liscence allow you to tow over 750kg

It's not as cut & dried as that  :-/
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 09 June 2010, 09:45:29
where is this space on dash on a mini pre facelift and is there connection or wiring behind this to connect light.
have seen a nice van "abbey gt" about 17ft going for 300 notes  just needs new cushions 8-)
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 09 June 2010, 09:51:22
looking at that link above from andy if i buy a caravan that does not take overall "mam" above3.5t i should be ok...passed my test this year :-/
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Impact Pete on 09 June 2010, 09:55:47
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looking at that link above from andy if i buy a caravan that does not take overall "mam" above3.5t i should be ok...passed my test this year :-/

I would be very careful, maybe even phone them to confirm all details, they were pulling them in by the dozen last year and drivers literally had to leave the caravans at the roadside, it's worth taking the additional part of the test.
It's easy to go over weight on a caravan, awning, gas, cups plates, water etc.. all adds up :o
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: hoofing it on 09 June 2010, 09:58:46
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looking at that link above from andy if i buy a caravan that does not take overall "mam" above3.5t i should be ok...passed my test this year :-/
If you passed your test last year you WILL have to sit the B+E test :(.there is no theory test for this.
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 09 June 2010, 10:07:33
anyone know how much this test is, and whats involved
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Impact Pete on 09 June 2010, 10:13:48
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anyone know how much this test is, and whats involved

DSA B+E Test Fee is £115 April 2009.

BUT there are reversing round a corner with trailer etc, some courses are up to £170 for a days training! :o
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 09 June 2010, 10:16:26
f*****g hell!!! :o :o
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Impact Pete on 09 June 2010, 10:18:35
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f*****g hell!!! :o :o

shop around, find out exactly whats involved, get a friend who's been towing for some time to help practice the moves!, then check the cost, just what I found on a google.
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy H on 09 June 2010, 10:54:48
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i don't know what you mean by 3pin and 4 pin, sorry i am novice to all this.  :o
i thought that when you plugged in van that there was an audible/buzzer when indicators applied  :-/
is it true that length of van shouldn't exceed car length??
The requirement is that there must either a visual or audible indication that the indicator(s) on the trailer are working.

The standard (3 pin) indicator relay just flashes the indicators. A towing (4 pin) indicator relay monitors the current and if it senses more than 3 indicator lamps are working it sends a voltage out on the 4th pin to flash an indicator lamp on the dashboard.

The Omega already has a space in the instrument cluster for a bulb with a symbol (don't what of, black line with a knob on the end :-/) and the wiring to the flasher relay in the fuse box.
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 11:20:07
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looking at that link above from andy if i buy a caravan that does not take overall "mam" above3.5t i should be ok...passed my test this year :-/

The way I understand it you're OK, but you'd need to check .......... I passed my test before I think you were born  :-? :-? :-?
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: smokingomega on 09 June 2010, 11:25:41
I think you do need to take a test to tow a caravan.
A few lads at work had to do it. You can tow a unbraked trailer up to 750kg i think.
Most caravans are above this limit.
There are even lads at work that can drive hgv`s (the old class 2) but can`t tow a caravan!
Just another way of getting money out of you unfortunatly.

Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 11:30:41
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I think you do need to take a test to tow a caravan.
A few lads at work had to do it. You can tow a unbraked trailer up to 750kg i think.
Most caravans are above this limit.
There are even lads at work that can drive hgv`s (the old class 2) but can`t tow a caravan!
Just another way of getting money out of you unfortunatly.


From the link I posted ......
Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

For example:

a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
Whereas

the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold

Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 11:52:25
Quote
where is this space on dash on a mini pre facelift and is there connection or wiring behind this to connect light.
 ....

Page 26/27 I know this is facelift, but they're more or less the same  :y
 http://images.omegaowners.com/documents/UserGuides/OmegaOct2002.pdf

the wiring bewteen the dash tell tale & the 4 pin realy is already there  :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: omegadan67 on 09 June 2010, 12:03:02
Quote
Quote


Omega is without doubt the best towcar I've had, bar none.

+1,I have towed with many different cars and 4x4s and the mig is the best so far :y :y


omega estate's are good tow cars however i dont think they are the best ( rose tinted glasses ) i have a discovery for towing with and imho that is far better than my miggy for towing i pull a twin axle knass 'van 28 foot long 1900kgs 6 berth
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 09 June 2010, 12:14:19
show off... :P :P lol
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: omegadan67 on 09 June 2010, 12:16:38
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looking at that link above from andy if i buy a caravan that does not take overall "mam" above3.5t i should be ok...passed my test this year :-/


if you passed you test this year then you will need to sit a nother test to allow you to tow a caravan reguardless of weight.

new drivers are linited to vehciles upto 3.5 t non towing
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Varche on 09 June 2010, 12:29:45
Quote
outstanding info thanks a lot guys. andy that info will save me hours of aggro. i have witter towbar just need bush/bolt kit and im away i think its only about 15quid from witter??
it would seem the twin axle is the way to go if only because it holds its weight better reducing weight on towbar.  :y :y

Not suggesting for a minute that this might happen to you, BUT twin axle caravans are often associated with Pikeys! . How do I know this? We toured and lived in our long single axle caravan and at quite a few sites they checked us out to see if we were pikeys. Notably a lovely site at Marciac in S. France. The owner let us on. ten minutes later a twin axle pulled by a BMW 5 series arrived with a man on his own. They checked him out and let him in. An hour later the rest of his 6 van pikey entourage turned up with Transits towing twin axles. They then got the washing machines out and plumbed them in etc etc ................
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 12:46:39
Quote
....
if you passed you test this year then you will need to sit a nother test to allow you to tow a caravan reguardless of weight.  .....

It's everything to do with weight! Look at their example!
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: omegadan67 on 09 June 2010, 13:18:14
Quote
Quote
....
if you passed you test this year then you will need to sit a nother test to allow you to tow a caravan reguardless of weight.  .....

It's everything to do with weight! Look at their example!





new drivers are limited to 3.5 mam/gvw no excecptions
mam/gvw is the mass of the vehicle without any trailer. i.e vauxhall omega 3.0 auto elite estate 2200kgs train weight ( with a trailer ) 3900kgs

so vx omega elite estate 3.0 auto with a trailer braked or un braked not to be driven by newly passed drivers.

2 ways round that
1- pass trailer test for cars
2- become a show man



Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 13:25:42
Quote
......
new drivers are limited to 3.5 mam/gvw no excecptions
mam/gvw is the mass of the vehicle without any trailer. i.e vauxhall omega 3.0 auto elite estate 2200kgs train weight ( with a trailer ) 3900kgs

so vx omega elite estate 3.0 auto with a trailer braked or un braked not to be driven by newly passed drivers.

2 ways round that
1- pass trailer test for cars
2- become a show man




I'm still not with you  :-/ If an Omega has a mam/gvw of 2200kgs then surely you can tow a caravan that has a gross weight (whatever the new term is) of 1300kgs  :-/ :-/
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: same #same# on 09 June 2010, 13:28:39
if you take the caravan or trailer wheels off there is no class  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Hannah Judes Dad on 09 June 2010, 13:52:48
Quote
Quote
......
new drivers are limited to 3.5 mam/gvw no excecptions
mam/gvw is the mass of the vehicle without any trailer. i.e vauxhall omega 3.0 auto elite estate 2200kgs train weight ( with a trailer ) 3900kgs

so vx omega elite estate 3.0 auto with a trailer braked or un braked not to be driven by newly passed drivers.

2 ways round that
1- pass trailer test for cars
2- become a show man




I'm still not with you  :-/ If an Omega has a mam/gvw of 2200kgs then surely you can tow a caravan that has a gross weight (whatever the new term is) of 1300kgs  :-/ :-/

It is because he is a new driver and does not have trailer (E) entitlement that causes the problem.SWMBO passed her test 8 years ago and can only drive car (B) or milk float (upto 3.5t) as she has no trailer entitlement and would have to take a seperate test.I'm ok as I have C+E (Class 1 to the oldies) so I can happily drag my pikey wagon,then again I could tow it with my car licence as I took my test 21 years ago and they gave me B+E along with C1(>7500kg) and D1 (minibus) for free and I was only 17 back then!
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: omegadan67 on 09 June 2010, 16:42:23
Quote
Quote
......
new drivers are limited to 3.5 mam/gvw no excecptions
mam/gvw is the mass of the vehicle without any trailer. i.e vauxhall omega 3.0 auto elite estate 2200kgs train weight ( with a trailer ) 3900kgs

so vx omega elite estate 3.0 auto with a trailer braked or un braked not to be driven by newly passed drivers.

2 ways round that
1- pass trailer test for cars
2- become a show man




I'm still not with you  :-/ If an Omega has a mam/gvw of 2200kgs then surely you can tow a caravan that has a gross weight (whatever the new term is) of 1300kgs  :-/ :-/


in simply terms cat B only licence means no legal right to tow anything behind,despite what you may read on any web site. Since 1997 when the goverment started clamping down on what we could and could not drive and with the amendments of 2006 new car cat B licence holders can not tow anything behind a car without sitting another test
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 16:50:34
Quote
Quote
Quote
......
new drivers are limited to 3.5 mam/gvw no excecptions
mam/gvw is the mass of the vehicle without any trailer. i.e vauxhall omega 3.0 auto elite estate 2200kgs train weight ( with a trailer ) 3900kgs

so vx omega elite estate 3.0 auto with a trailer braked or un braked not to be driven by newly passed drivers.

2 ways round that
1- pass trailer test for cars
2- become a show man




I'm still not with you  :-/ If an Omega has a mam/gvw of 2200kgs then surely you can tow a caravan that has a gross weight (whatever the new term is) of 1300kgs  :-/ :-/


in simply terms cat B only licence means no legal right to tow anything behind,despite what you may read on any web site. Since 1997 when the goverment started clamping down on what we could and could not drive and with the amendments of 2006 new car cat B licence holders can not tow anything behind a car without sitting another test

but directgove http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073 doesn't say that .......

it says ......

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM
.

Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: omegadan67 on 09 June 2010, 16:58:20
Andy i dont wish to seem like know it all but since 1997 and 2006 despite what the gov.web site says you are not allowed to tow a trailer of any type on a B only licence. what is on the web site refers to older licence holders.

the bit you should have been lookig at is this:

Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM

Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.

very confusing i know and very iratating
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Impact Pete on 09 June 2010, 17:41:09
Quote
Andy i dont wish to seem like know it all but since 1997 and 2006 despite what the gov.web site says you are not allowed to tow a trailer of any type on a B only licence. what is on the web site refers to older licence holders.

the bit you should have been lookig at is this:

Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM

Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.

very confusing i know and very iratating

It's all confusing but andy b is right;

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547


http://www.learners.co.uk/towing/index.asp
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 17:53:52
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.. but andy b is right;
 ......
http://www.learners.co.uk/towing/index.asp

I knew it had to happen eventually!  :y  :y  :y

quote from the learner.co.uk
Q ... I passed my driving test in a manual vehicle but now have an automatic car to tow my caravan. If I take the towing test in my automatic, will I be able to tow using a manual vehicle in future? 
A .... No! You will only be able to tow using an automatic vehicle. However, if you pass the towing test in a manual vehicle, you may tow with either.


How rediculous is that!!!!   :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Hannah Judes Dad on 09 June 2010, 17:57:55
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Quote
.....
.. but andy b is right;
 ......
http://www.learners.co.uk/towing/index.asp

I knew it had to happen eventually!  :y  :y  :y

quote from the learner.co.uk
Q ... I passed my driving test in a manual vehicle but now have an automatic car to tow my caravan. If I take the towing test in my automatic, will I be able to tow using a manual vehicle in future? 
A .... No! You will only be able to tow using an automatic vehicle. However, if you pass the towing test in a manual vehicle, you may tow with either.


How rediculous is that!!!!   :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?

It's only the same as the car test is,i.e. auto test = auto only,manual test = manual or auto.Many years ago it was auto test =auto only,manual test = manual only.
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 19:17:06
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It's only the same as the car test is,i.e. auto test = auto only,manual test = manual or auto..

but you if already have a manual licence, you've shown the ability to control a manual car. You don't forget how if you start driving an auto.  :-?

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Many years ago it was auto test =auto only,manual test = manual only..
You sure? Never heard of that. Certainly not in the last 31 years  ::) :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: sport on 09 June 2010, 19:25:24
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Hi i have 2.2 estate and my tow limit is 1600 kg so long the caravan is no more than 1600 kg laden .
Mine tows ok but some use spring assister's 
Look in your manual should tell you your tow limit

tha hand book will tell you what the car is able to pull up a ??? degree slope, not what you're allowed to pull on the road.  ;)

In my manual it tells me my max braked towing limit is 1600 kg .And the max nose weight is 75 kg
Ive tested nose weight its about 80 kg and it rides level
have you a 5kg gas bottle in the front???

yes two and spare wheel
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Hannah Judes Dad on 09 June 2010, 19:41:24
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Quote
....
It's only the same as the car test is,i.e. auto test = auto only,manual test = manual or auto..

but you if already have a manual licence, you've shown the ability to control a manual car. You don't forget how if you start driving an auto.  :-?

Quote
....
Many years ago it was auto test =auto only,manual test = manual only..
You sure? Never heard of that. Certainly not in the last 31 years  ::) :y

Many many years ago my grandad took both tests
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: robson on 09 June 2010, 20:36:24
Dont want to put another fly in the ointment but there are also new regulations on fitting tow bars .If your tow bar is second hand it might not meet new requirements the police are stopping caravanners and checking this I should read up regs before fitting
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 09 June 2010, 20:38:18
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Dont want to put another fly in the ointment but there are also new regulations on fitting tow bars .If your tow bar is second hand it might not meet new requirements the police are stopping caravanners and checking this I should read up regs before fitting

Type aproved for vehicles after 97/98? so not really that new  ;) :y :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: omegadan67 on 09 June 2010, 21:53:00
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Andy i dont wish to seem like know it all but since 1997 and 2006 despite what the gov.web site says you are not allowed to tow a trailer of any type on a B only licence. what is on the web site refers to older licence holders.

the bit you should have been lookig at is this:

Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM

Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.

very confusing i know and very iratating

It's all confusing but andy b is right;

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547


http://www.learners.co.uk/towing/index.asp


 could someone please let the police know that a B licence will now let you tow a caravan so that my son who has just been give a hefty fine and 6 points on his 3and a half year old licence for towing my caravan without + E part on hie licence

Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: omegadan67 on 09 June 2010, 22:15:09
just to claify the point of towing with or without the + E on your licence i think this makes it abit easier to understand, by the way what caravans are under 750 kgs mam


Car driving licence first obtained since 1 January 1997

Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM


Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.




Car driving licence first obtained since 1 January 1997

Drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles. In addition to the new driving tests, drivers of vehicles which fall within subcategories C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E also have to meet higher medical standards.


Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 10 June 2010, 00:50:07
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 could someone please let the police know that a B licence will now let you tow a caravan so that my son who has just been give a hefty fine and 6 points on his 3and a half year old licence for towing my caravan without + E part on hie licence


Presumably the combined mam was more than 3 & half tonnes.
http://www.learners.co.uk/towing/index.asp
If you passed your car driving test after January 1997, you may now need to pass a separate test (licence category B + E) to tow a trailer or caravan weighing over 750kg M.A.M. (Maximum Authorised Mass).
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 10 June 2010, 01:20:55
looking at that learners site if someone next to me in car whilst towing who has license and i put l plates on im ok. the mrs past her test in 96 so if she comes on family holidays ...... ;)
back to my point about creating section for towing and caravans look at the response here 8-)
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 10 June 2010, 01:28:31
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back to my point about creating section for towing and caravans look at the response here 8-)

A certain admin advocates all caravans should be torched .......

even though he's been photo'd in one  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: russ b on 10 June 2010, 01:48:21
so does that mean torching whilst he in it..... :P
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Andy B on 10 June 2010, 01:51:48
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so does that mean torching whilst he in it..... :P

Perhaps not .... it's handy having somebody on the inside who has a Tech II or three .......... and know hw use 'em  ::) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: Impact Pete on 10 June 2010, 10:56:04
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just to claify the point of towing with or without the + E on your licence i think this makes it abit easier to understand, by the way what caravans are under 750 kgs mam


Car driving licence first obtained since 1 January 1997

Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM


Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.




Car driving licence first obtained since 1 January 1997

Drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles. In addition to the new driving tests, drivers of vehicles which fall within subcategories C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E also have to meet higher medical standards.



Puzzled  :-?, thought we had finally answered this?
As long as the trailer is not over 750kg it's ok, and other point if you happen to have a 3ton car? then only a 500kg trailer is allowed. :y
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: espen22 on 10 June 2010, 12:13:20
Didnt see if it was mentioned, but i fitted my old omega with monroes air shocks, so that i could pump it up when i had the caravan hooked on. Thats really a must have if your car dont have a self levelling system.
Only - is that you have to manually pressurise the shocks, but a good Caravan rule is to adjust tirepressure on car and tow at first fuelstation, so its only an extra vent to check then :)
Title: Re: caravan advice....no i am not boring.
Post by: maximoke on 12 June 2010, 20:51:01
Hi All.  Quite a few replies to this one.  It has been mentioned earlier but I feel it needs adding to.  One of the important weights is the cars kerbweight, this is not the towing weight.  What ever caravan you buy must not exceed the cars kerbweight.  As you will be a new tow-er the general rule is an 85% match, ie if your car has a kerbweight of 1000kg, then the caravan should be around 850kg.  Also the towbar maximum load (usually approx 75kg) must not be exceeded, even if the caravan weights suggest the caravan can have a higher figure the car towbar figure is the one you must go for.  Caravan hitch weights are normally about 7% of its MTPLM (or MGW for older caravans).  The caravans 85% match refers to the MTPLM figure.  It is a bit of a mine field so you do need to check fully.  Also you might want to check the rules regarding extension mirrors.  In brief:  Do not exceed your cars Kerbweight - this is not the towing limit figure. Do not exceed the towbar limit and MTPLM (MGW) is the maximum weight of the fully loaded caravan.  Check out the Caravan club website - it's all there.