Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: erubus on 11 July 2010, 10:21:51
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Hi there guys. As i'm no further forward in trying to get the ecowreck working, I'm gonna start looking into installing the old SEH that I have got. Has anyone on here done the conversion? I have seen a couple on fleabay that have been converted as it's apparently a better engine for LPG conversions. A few questions though.
(1) Will the engine loom be a simple case of unplugging the old one and putting in the new one or will it all have to be spliced and faffed around with
(2)Will the engine mounts from the carlton fit the omega?
(3)will the autobox bolt straight to the back of the engine and are there any electrical issues with it(extra electrical/vac connections etc to the engine etc)
(4) will the exhaust be a nightmare
I'm sure there will be more questions as i think about it. TBH i'd rather just fix the ecotec, much less work but the SEH is starting to look like the only option. If the autobox is gonna be an issue, i have got the manual one on the SEH already, but that's gonna mean changing propshafts g/box mounts etc....
cheers for any help, gill
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If this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_II_engine) is correct then it looks like the block will be very similar but just about everything else will be different.
If I were in your position I would find a scrap Vectra with a good engine and fit that. You don't say what year your car is but chances are you will need to keep the catalytic converter to pass the MOT emissions test and any engine swap involving an engine that wasn't offered by the factory usually involves grief when you go to get insurance. :(
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By 'ecowreck' I assume you are referring to a 4 pot petrol engine?
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i'm pretty sure it's the same block with some modifications, the omega is a v reg and the carlonator is f reg. every thing is there as it's still installed and running in the carlton. i have seen the conversion done as the SEH is supposed to be better for LPG conversions. As the omega is pretty much the same floorpan as the carlton i had hoped it would pretty much drop in, mechanically speaking, just the wiring and exhaust that i was worried about. Is it not the case that the cat only needs to be fittes if the engine is older than a certain date, 1992 springs to mind.
hadn't considered insurance, although given that it's an older less powerful engine it wouldn't make too much difference. reason i'm considering this route is purely financial. I can't afford to buy an engine and this one's sitting there and is frankly a much better engine, certainly more reliable. I've run several SEH's and never had a problem, not a single one. I have also had several ecotecs and had nothing but problems. even though the one in the omega is only 60000 miles it doesn't run and i'm damned if i can find the problem. don't get me wrong they are great engines when they work, but they don't work very long in between eating sensors. thought i'd give the ecotec another chance cos i loved my last omega, but would never get another td, really smooth, but very thirsty and very unreliable, and the v6's are far too thirsty as well, given the miles i do every day.
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This seems almost to good to be true MOT Testers Manual - Emissions (http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_730.htm)
Apparently if the car and the engine are different ages the emissions standard that applies is that of the older. :y
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Thee are always hidden costs and problems in changing an engine type. In this case, for an older design that's much less sprightly.
What's wrong with the current engine? If it's dead I can't see a 2nd hand one costing any more than the bits and pieces required to swap to a different type.
Kevin
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i'm gonna persevere with the engine that's in it for just now. i refuse to accept that it's dead when it has nothing obviously wrong with it, except for the fact that it doesn't work. The SEH conversion is only because i have the engine and evrything that i need for the conversion already and would therefore cost a negligible amount. i'm not shelving the idea just yet though.
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What is the problem with the current engine, then? Post up some symptoms and we'll probably be able to help. :y
Kevin
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problem with current engine is explained in the "im back" thread. basically it starts and runs but very lumpy, like it's only running on a couple of cylinders. spark at all plugs, fuel at each injector. To date the coolant temp sensor, coil pack, egr, plugs and leads, IACV have all been changed as well as a few things i can't remember off the top of my head. paperclip test shows no codes except for things i have disconnected trying to track down the problem. the head's also been off and checked. was thinking about buying a code reader, but don't know if it will help any, given it's not showing any faults. eml doesn't come on either. I had thought about the fuel pressure regulator being at fault as pulling the vac hose off doesn't affect the running, although i'm not sure if it would or not.
gill
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Leads on correct plugs?
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i wish that was the case but they're all on right. plugs were pretty sooty but i put that down to the engine management not working in general. listened for air leaks with a stethoscope as well but everything seems pretty airtight. The other possibility i've thought of is the ecu being faulty, i've got a spare but it would need programmed to the transponder.
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the mechanical parts are not difficult to do.
Omega is basically a facelifted Carlton anyhow, the entire underbody is pretty much the same. The blocks are actually the same part if the SEH is a late-enough engine.
Engine will mate to the the mounts OK, and to the gearbox, either manual or auto. There was an early Omega B that used that engine ( Edition S ? ), so things like exhaust will be available.
An engine out of an F-plate Carlton would need to have either a letter from Vauxhall detailing the date the engine was made or a cat-spec fuel injection fitting to stand a chance of passing the MOT (or to have the entire petrol fuel system removed once you're on LPG).
regarding the fuel injection, you'll need to make an under-bonnet loom, but that's no hassle.
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excellent, cheers. it does seem like a lot of work, and hopefully i'll get the xev working. gonna keep the seh and all the bits stored though, just in case. might end up fitting the manual box later on anyway.
gill
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funny, I've got a 20seh engine in the shed fopr that same reason
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This conversion is a doddle, ive done stacks cos the 4 pot ecoscrap is so soft, mounts, flywheel even the alternator and pas pump mount up no bother, only place you might run in to trouble is, if your car is post 95 and has the 2 piece sump, this type of engine has a different oil pump but if you have the earlier engine with the one piece tin sump then all is rosey and it will go straight in. Ecu and fuel pump relay for seh loom sit quite nicely where the original ecu was located, and the ecoscrap starter will even work on the seh, then all you are left with is a couple of wires to join into the white multiplug on the car, rev counter, oil pressure, ignition switch live for the management system and i think the battery light. Dont know just how well a seh will work on a slosh box though, generally the larger flywheel leaves them a bit slow to rev, but they have immense torque and are sorer on petrol too, but a million times more reliable!!!
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cheers for that. the carlton used an AR25 autobox as well, so shouldn't be too much of an issue. am still unsure about whether the box needs any input from the engine, throttle position, manifold depression etc and how that would be got from the seh as it's on a manual atm. i think if i go ahead with the conversion i'll go the whole hog and stick the manual in as well, i presume the carlonator's g/box to centre bearing prop would fit no problem.
I ran a cav with an SEH and a couple with eco's and to be honest i didn't think there was much in it performance/economy wise. when my dad used to run the carlonator, he swore by the SEH, think he may be looking through rose tinted glasses, but he reckoned he got 40+mpg on a run. I also have a high lift cam for an SEH. decisions decisions.
I have made no progress at all with the omega. It's just sat on the drive since i got it. money's so unbelievably tight i can't even save up the 45 quid to get the boy to come out with his tech2. I'll be gutted if, after weeks of saving, he comes out and says that he can't find the problem. If that happens, the engine will be ripped out smashed up a bit with a sledgehammer (to make me feel better) and weighed in, then the trusty old SEH will go in.
Might have another look at it today, but tbh, it's a waste of time trying to figure out which bit of electronic wizardry is giving an incorrect signal just by looking at it and pulling plugs on and off.
as a footnote, I spent probably in the region of 400 on new sensors etc for my last ecotec engine in the space of the two years i had it, and spending on the SEH engine in the last fifteen years, zero, not a penny. well a new sump from the scrappy cos the original went porous, but my dad bought that. oh, and a couple of fuel pump relays, but that doesn't count (turned out to be a dodgy pump)
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Carlton gearbox will physically fit ok, but where you will run into bother using it is that its got a cable operated clutch, whereas the omega clutch is hydraulic. Any petrol omega box will fit the back of the 8 valve engine, but because the 2.0 ran a smaller diff it also had a slightly smaller diameter driveshaft so its nearly best to find gearbox and shaft from a 2litre, they also had slightly different gear ratios than the v6 boxes, but thats not a major issue. The dual mass flywheel from a ecotec engine will also bolt straight on, as both engines have 6 bolt cranks where the flywheel bolts on, so there are no problems with using the standard ecotec clutch setup, also as a point of interest, the standard exhaust manifold on the seh will line staight up to the existing ecotec system. Itd nearly be worthwhile finding a donor car in a scrappys as all the parts to convert from auto to manual are really straightforward bolt on bolt off items. I did my first gls auto in an evening, but i had everything on the floor to do it and the use of a ramp, which makes things so much easier, even though its not impossible to do on the floor, we also decided to fit an mv6 lsd on the same evening, but i also had the assistance of a mate called tiny, who is not as his name would suggest :D
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all the bits are still on the carlonator, including clutch. As my omega is an auto atm, i imagine i'll be able to use the cable clutch and pedal box from the carlton as well as the propshaft etc. good to know that the eco exhaust will fit the seh as well. i'm starting to warm tyo the idea of forgetting about trying to fix the eco and just crack on with fitting the seh.
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Omega B clutch concentric release bearing/slave cylinder assy will bolt straight to Omega A cable-clutch gearbox.
the hydraulic system was designed to bolt to the same ring of bolts.