Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Shallow Al on 22 July 2010, 11:16:22
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Hi All. Is it ok to re-use the wishbone mounting bolts. I think most people do and new ones seem awkward to get hold of.
I have some time before doing the job, so could order some from the dealer. Using the old ones would be handy, but they are safety critical items.
Cheers.
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They should really be replaced but very rarely is it actually done ;)
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
Are you on commission? ::) ;D
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
Hit and miss....some do and some dont.
No problems with re-suing the old ones though.
Note: Lemforder wishbone bushes seem to last about 2 years.....
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
Hit and miss....some do and some dont.
No problems with re-suing the old ones though.
Note: Lemforder wishbone bushes seem to last about 2 years.....
Can't see them being Genuine ones then like so many people keep saying as The Genuine ones last years ;)
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
Hit and miss....some do and some dont.
No problems with re-suing the old ones though.
Note: Lemforder wishbone bushes seem to last about 2 years.....
Can't see them being Genuine ones then like so many people keep saying as The Genuine ones last years ;)
I suspect they are.....I wonder if the roads are getting worse or a tired suspecion setup takes more out fo them.
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Thanks for replies. Cannot see that the 2 litre will put them under too much stress anyway. ;)
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
Hit and miss....some do and some dont.
No problems with re-suing the old ones though.
Note: Lemforder wishbone bushes seem to last about 2 years.....
As did my egay cheapies last time, hence fitting them again this time. Be interesting to see if these ones last 2 years too... That'll be just over 4 years and still not spent as much as Lemforder ones ::) ;)
That said, I wouldn't want to be paying someone to fit them every time ;)
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I would say use new bolts as the old ones will already have been stretched
Front Bolts 90468500 £2.75 each
back Bolts 90468501 £2.42 each
Nuts for above 90538056 £2.11 each
Ball Joint to Knuckle Bolt 90496191 £0.94
Nut for above 90538057 £0.94 each
Cheers
Andy
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To be honest Andy, the bolts on the wishbones are not torqued up high enough to stretch them.
You certainly dont feel them stretch like the head bolts and subframe bolts.
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To be honest Andy, the bolts on the wishbones are not torqued up high enough to stretch them.
You certainly dont feel them stretch like the head bolts and subframe bolts.
As they are torqued to 120 Nm then angle tightened by 30° then by 15° surely by definition they have been "stretched" and should be replaced??
The "book of lies" certainly says so, and I was always taught that ANY angle tightened bolt should be replaced ??
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To be honest Andy, the bolts on the wishbones are not torqued up high enough to stretch them.
You certainly dont feel them stretch like the head bolts and subframe bolts.
As they are torqued to 120 Nm then angle tightened by 30° then by 15° surely by definition they have been "stretched" and should be replaced??
The "book of lies" certainly says so, and I was always taught that ANY angle tightened bolt should be replaced ??
Try doing a head bolt or subframe bolt....you can tell very obviously when they stretch :y
These just go tight.
No need to replace.
Consider also that the angle fit method is used on many fixings these days and not just stretch bolts
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As DTM says, angle tightening doesn't necessarily imply yield tightening (stretching). Angle tightening is just a method of achieveing more accurate control over the final tension. A tightened-to-yield fitting will always use angle tightening because accuracy is important, but so might a critical non yield tightened fiting - omega wishbones for example. Also front calipers are angle tightened I noticed recently, whilst re-using the bolts :)
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Just to add, as we have the torque procedure down, that the bolts should be tightened with wheels loaded/at the correct ride hight. Not wheels hanging while jacked.
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I find it a right pain in the arse torquing those bolts up with the car on the ground and no pit, so what I do is leave the car in the air, and with the lower ball joint still disconnected, pull the strut out the way, and shove the wishbone up behind it. Jack to hold it in place. Can just about get it to the same angle it would be with the car on the ground, and you have much more room to get your torque wrench/bar/foot undeneath. :y
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
The pair that I bought from AllGerman last week each came with two large nuts and a smaller nut & bolt (I'm guessing that the bolt is a replacement for the pinch-bolt on the lower knuckle :-/)
Taken the day off to fit them today so hoping the rain will hold off :y
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Yeah my recent Lemforders also came with nuts for the main bolts (should be replaced as they are an ovalised locking nut) and a new pinch bolt and nut.
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I find it a right pain in the arse torquing those bolts up with the car on the ground and no pit, so what I do is leave the car in the air, and with the lower ball joint still disconnected, pull the strut out the way, and shove the wishbone up behind it. Jack to hold it in place. Can just about get it to the same angle it would be with the car on the ground, and you have much more room to get your torque wrench/bar/foot undeneath. :y
It is indeed a pita, however it's important to the point that vx load the suspension to simulate the drivers weight in order to set the best average ride hight before setting the bush center spacer position by tightening correctly to specified torque.
I believe Mark tightens as much as possible wheels loaded, then re jacks to tighten to the final increment. Provided the centre spacer does not slip back round that's good enough. Or if ramps can be used that would help if they ever clear the bumper of course.
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I find it a right pain in the arse torquing those bolts up with the car on the ground and no pit, so what I do is leave the car in the air, and with the lower ball joint still disconnected, pull the strut out the way, and shove the wishbone up behind it. Jack to hold it in place. Can just about get it to the same angle it would be with the car on the ground, and you have much more room to get your torque wrench/bar/foot undeneath. :y
It is indeed a pita, however it's important to the point that vx load the suspension to simulate the drivers weight in order to set the best average ride hight before setting the bush center spacer position by tightening correctly to specified torque.
I believe Mark tightens as much as possible wheels loaded, then re jacks to tighten to the final increment. Provided the centre spacer does not slip back round that's good enough. Or if ramps can be used that would help if they ever clear the bumper of course.
Yes, as tight as possible on the ground and then jack up for the final torqueing up
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
Hit and miss....some do and some dont.
No problems with re-suing the old ones though.
Note: Lemforder wishbone bushes seem to last about 2 years.....
Can't see them being Genuine ones then like so many people keep saying as The Genuine ones last years ;)
I suspect they are.....I wonder if the roads are getting worse or a tired suspecion setup takes more out fo them.
I guess it would be interesting to see how long the ones on the MV6 last.
For info, MDTM and I rebushed them 2yrs ago (before Newent that year, where his press got, err, 'heavily modified ;D) with genuine GM bushes from a dealer.
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
The pair that I bought from AllGerman last week each came with two large nuts and a smaller nut & bolt (I'm guessing that the bolt is a replacement for the pinch-bolt on the lower knuckle :-/)
Taken the day off to fit them today so hoping the rain will hold off :y
Got the new wishbones fitted.
Before starting I measured the amount of camber using a roofers square and a length of metal channel under the front wheels to give a datum. After several remeasures I found that I was getting a repeatable 15mm (2deg00') on the N/S and 21mm (2deg50') on the O/S.
I was hoping that after fitting the new wishbones the camber would correct itself but I now have 13mm (1deg45') on the N/S and 20mm (2deg40') on the O/S.
Tomorrows task will be to adjust it myself. Now I have found a repeatable way of measuring the camber the worst I can do is return it to 'as found'. :y
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They should really be replaced but very rarely is it actually done ;)
Why?
They're not stretch bolts.
I would like to replace any locking nuts, but spring washers would work just as well. (You're only supposed to use a nylon locking nut once, unless Omega uses a Philidas type?)
Doing mine tomorrow - and not really looking forward to it!
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ive always re-used unless new ones supplied, but it depends on condition of bolt
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Lemforder come with new bolts :y
The pair that I bought from AllGerman last week each came with two large nuts and a smaller nut & bolt (I'm guessing that the bolt is a replacement for the pinch-bolt on the lower knuckle :-/)
Taken the day off to fit them today so hoping the rain will hold off :y
Got the new wishbones fitted.
Before starting I measured the amount of camber using a roofers square and a length of metal channel under the front wheels to give a datum. After several remeasures I found that I was getting a repeatable 15mm (2deg00') on the N/S and 21mm (2deg50') on the O/S.
I was hoping that after fitting the new wishbones the camber would correct itself but I now have 13mm (1deg45') on the N/S and 20mm (2deg40') on the O/S.
Tomorrows task will be to adjust it myself. Now I have found a repeatable way of measuring the camber the worst I can do is return it to 'as found'. :y
Best you can is all you can do without a previously correct measurement, although if the conversion to degrees is accurate can 1.degree 10 be set?
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Bear in mind that adjustment of the camber (and even just swapping wishbones) with throw out the toe setting as well. :y
Kevin
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and never buy delphi wishbones. they are properly poo >:(
the bolts are readily available, 2days max, from vx. if you've to take them out, you might as well replace them :-/
see thread on front suspension woes and chrisgixers post for suspension set up and what happens if not right. :y
i've taken my beast of the road until i can get it fixed properly :'(
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FWIW when i did my wishbones I got them from the local VX dealer. They didn't offer bolts so I had to ask for them and they had none in stock. Rolled eyes at the prospect of ordering and said they don't use new. This at a time when a pair of wishbones was on special offer so lots in stock.
I used the old ones as a direct result.