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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: John-R on 16 August 2010, 19:28:43

Title: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: John-R on 16 August 2010, 19:28:43
Hi.
Just looking for some advice for my 2.6 V6 2003 54,000miles

Last night, travelling down M6 with caravan in tow. Oil light flashes slowly then comes on. Sign says services 7 miles. Oil was checked last week and all ok.

After a mile I hear a light tapping noise - just about to pull onto hard shoulder, when I hear a very loud knocking.

Breakdown comes oil level good. Says it could be cylinder head gasket, but when he turns the engine over, he sucks his teeth and mentions "bottom ends" and "con rods".

Anyone any experience of this? Is this serious? Am I looking at a new engine or (hopefully) some work on existing.

I'm not a practical mechanic, so I'd be looking for the work to be done by a garage or very competent person. Anyone know a  place in the Liverpool or North West? Likely costs?

Thanks in advance.
John-R
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Martin_1962 on 16 August 2010, 19:54:15
Sounds like it has ran the big ends

But why has the pressure dropped?
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: alank46 on 16 August 2010, 20:18:35
Hi
There's another thread on here about the same thing.  Chap found that the oil strainer in the sump was blocked.  Has the car had regular oil changes?
Alan
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: CaptainZok on 16 August 2010, 20:21:46
Has the car had an engine flush recently?
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: charlie on 16 August 2010, 20:22:33
I ve seen alot of 2.6s for sale with oil pressure problems????? :( :(
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: John-R on 16 August 2010, 21:04:30
Thanks so far guys.

I think the suspicion was that the oil pump packed in, hence the warning light.

Last oil change about 10,000 ago, I guess the recommendation on here is more frequent???

As far as I know it hasn't had an engine flush.

I bought it 1 year ago at 46,000 with a full service history.

There's no leaking and no physical sign of damage to the engine. If it is big ends what is the prognosis for repair? any ideas on cost?

John
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Martin_1962 on 16 August 2010, 21:07:44
Depends if any journal damage

I'd start by getting the sump off and seeing what is what.

Minimum new big end shells and oil pump, maximum new engine
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: John-R on 16 August 2010, 21:21:26
Thanks for the advice.
As I mentioned, I'm no mechanic - tyres, batteries, brakes I'm OK, theory only on everything else.
I'll have to find a local garage I can trust. . . .and sell the family silver !!

Cheers
John
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: TheBoy on 16 August 2010, 21:28:16
Just to clarify, you drove for a mile with the oil light on :o


The tapping noise is probably the oil draining from the lifters, but who knows what other damage has been done (or excessively worn)
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 16 August 2010, 23:09:54
I would take a guess at the oil pick up pipe being full of crud through poor oil changes.
10,000 mile intervals is a bit much.
I had one here that the oil pick up pipe was full of crud, then siezed the engine. . Big ends welded to the crank.

Hope it isn't mate but i wouldn't hold your breath  :'(
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 August 2010, 00:07:15
Why are 2.6s so prone to this?
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Broomies Mate on 17 August 2010, 00:11:40
Quote
Why are 2.6s so prone to this?

I'm guessing they arent.  Oil pick-up is the same throughout the V6 range, isn't it?  If I am right (which is unlikely LOL) then it's just a few unlucky 2.6 owners.

Really, these V6 motors, if not sat at 80MPH all day long, need an oil change every 4k.  When I did a huge amount of motorway miles, I was happy to change oil and filter every 8-10k.
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: 2woody on 17 August 2010, 09:04:48
I think if anything, the oiling system on the V6 is its weakest feature.

I currently have 6 V6 Omegas and I'd sav that only one of them isn't in the early stages of big-end trouble. this is probably due to the high "normal" coolant temperature.

regarding this particular engine - it isn't even worth taking the sump off - it will need at least a crank re-grind and possiby a number of con-rods replacing - expect a four-figure sum to fix the engine properly. Much better option to go for a.n. other lump, even for a couple of hundred quid.

mind you, you could go for a 3.2 at the same time

sorry it's bad news - I'm not normally that negative
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: omegod on 17 August 2010, 19:43:03
is it not in any way possible to fit a 2.5 engine or bottom end ? I know the 2.6 is FBW throttle but 2.5s are so much easier to get hold of than 2.6s.

TBH I saw a 2.6 at the auctions a few weeks ago with a shagged bottom end and suspect they are more prone to failiure for some reason.
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Andy B on 17 August 2010, 19:45:14
Quote
is it not in any way possible to fit a 2.5 engine or bottom end ? I know the 2.6 is FBW throttle but 2.5s are so much easier to get hold of than 2.6s.  ....

the top of a 2.6 has been succesfully mated to the bottom half of a 3.0  :y  :y
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: tidla on 17 August 2010, 19:51:27
Quote
Depends if any journal damage

I'd start by getting the sump off and seeing what is what.

Minimum new big end shells and oil pump, maximum new engine

as quoted. start with the cheap option first.

the big ed shells are designed to take the abuse first before the crank and con rods.

if the shells are still in the caps, whack some new ones in.
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 August 2010, 20:02:27
Quote
Why are 2.6s so prone to this?

Think about the recommended oil change intervals
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: omegod on 17 August 2010, 20:02:59
Anyone know how much a set of big end shells are?

John is my cousin and I would like to help get him sorted out in any way poss, does the crank need to come out to replace the shells?
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 August 2010, 20:04:39
Quote
I think if anything, the oiling system on the V6 is its weakest feature.

I currently have 6 V6 Omegas and I'd sav that only one of them isn't in the early stages of big-end trouble. this is probably due to the high "normal" coolant temperature.

The oil pump was changed in 97.5 for a more chunky job with greater flow.

All bottom ends I have seen have been in superb nick, even at 200k + miles.

I suspect its more down to the oil change intervals and the fact that most Vx owners dont service their cars as well as they should or skimp on the oil.

And I dont agree with the coolant temp  :y
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: tidla on 17 August 2010, 20:18:01
Quote
Quote
Why are 2.6s so prone to this?

Think about the recommended oil change intervals

how far did they extend it??
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: CaptainZok on 17 August 2010, 20:24:07
It does make you wonder if we're now seeing the results of extended service intervals followed by poor servicing.
Makes you wonder if it's worth pulling the sump off and cleaning the pick up pipe on the next oil change.
The Gnome will be pleased when I tell him. ;D
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Abiton on 17 August 2010, 21:16:13
Quote
It does make you wonder if we're now seeing the results of extended service intervals followed by poor servicing.
Makes you wonder if it's worth pulling the sump off and cleaning the pick up pipe on the next oil change.
The Gnome will be pleased when I tell him. ;D

I'd certainly recommend this, going by my recent experience.  Apart from the slight possibility of causing an oil leak where there wasn't one before, I really can't see any downside.
In fact I'm planning to do this to my Golf on Saturday, as it's done even more miles than the Omega (178K approx).  Peace of mind requires it.  ::)

Edit: And to John_R: big sympathy, hope it doesn't turn out to be terminal for the engine
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 August 2010, 10:35:41
This little spate of oil pressure related episodes makes me wonder if an oil pressure gauge would be a wise addition?

By the time the oil light is on it's too late - pressure is down to a few PSI, whereas if we're up against gradual blocking of the oil pickup strainer the tell tale signs would be there earlier on an oil pressure gauge. :-/

Prophylactic cleaning of the sump and strainer is probably an excellent idea, though, and probably negates the need for a gauge if the car is subsequently looked after.

I think these are the consequences of a 20k service interval starting to bite. It's also worth bearing in mind that with the introduction of that service interval came a requirement for higher spec. oil, and for annual changes if the 20K isn't reached.

20k service interval being applied, but with whatever cheap oil the garage has in their bulk container?

.. and another reminder that if the oil light comes on, the engine needs to stop immediately. A few seconds longer can kill it in this state, let alone a mile.

Quote
the top of a 2.6 has been succesfully mated to the bottom half of a 3.0

I wonder what compression ratio that engine ended up with? :o

Kevin
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Kaycee on 18 August 2010, 10:43:59
Prophylactic cleaning of the sump and strainer is probably an excellent idea, though, and probably negates the need for a gauge if the car is subsequently looked after.
whats that then
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 August 2010, 10:47:19
Quote
This little spate of oil pressure related episodes makes me wonder if an oil pressure gauge would be a wise addition?

By the time the oil light is on it's too late - pressure is down to a few PSI, whereas if we're up against gradual blocking of the oil pickup strainer the tell tale signs would be there earlier on an oil pressure gauge. :-/

Prophylactic cleaning of the sump and strainer is probably an excellent idea, though, and probably negates the need for a gauge if the car is subsequently looked after.

I think these are the consequences of a 20k service interval starting to bite. It's also worth bearing in mind that with the introduction of that service interval came a requirement for higher spec. oil, and for annual changes if the 20K isn't reached.

20k service interval being applied, but with whatever cheap oil the garage has in their bulk container?

.. and another reminder that if the oil light comes on, the engine needs to stop immediately. A few seconds longer can kill it in this state, let alone a mile.

Quote
the top of a 2.6 has been succesfully mated to the bottom half of a 3.0

I wonder what compression ratio that engine ended up with? :o

Kevin

Certainly lower!
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Entwood on 18 August 2010, 11:29:51
Quote
Prophylactic cleaning of the sump and strainer is probably an excellent idea, though, and probably negates the need for a gauge if the car is subsequently looked after.
whats that then

Prophylactic: A preventive measure. The word comes from the Greek for "an advance guard,"

:)
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Andy B on 18 August 2010, 11:38:58
Quote
Quote
Prophylactic cleaning of the sump and strainer is probably an excellent idea, though, and probably negates the need for a gauge if the car is subsequently looked after.
whats that then

Prophylactic: A preventive measure. The word comes from the Greek for "an advance guard,"

:)

and also what the US matelots call a condom .........  ;)  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Entwood on 18 August 2010, 12:59:52
Quote
Quote
Quote
Prophylactic cleaning of the sump and strainer is probably an excellent idea, though, and probably negates the need for a gauge if the car is subsequently looked after.
whats that then

Prophylactic: A preventive measure. The word comes from the Greek for "an advance guard,"

:)

and also what the US matelots call a condom .........  ;)  ;)  ;)


Also how the military refer to anti-malarials .. for some weird reason !!!
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: aaronjb on 18 August 2010, 13:03:44
Wouldn't want to get the two mixed up.. I'd not like to try swallowing a condom.

Don't think it'd do much for malaria, either!
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: John-R on 18 August 2010, 21:59:24
Thanks all.
I think the best way to go is to find a replacement and have it fitted.
I've been quoted anything from £1000 - £1800 for a local garage to source a 2.6 lump and fit it. Tempted as they also give a warranty.
Alternative is that I found a 2.6 from an insurance right-off rear end shunt - 56,000 and serviced with a 3 month warranty for £300 delivered. :)
Tempted to use this and get local garage to fit.

Darth Loo-Knee - my cousin spoke to you earlier today about this.
I'll call you tomorrow and discuss other options.
Thanks
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 18 August 2010, 22:22:56
Quote
This little spate of oil pressure related episodes makes me wonder if an oil pressure gauge would be a wise addition?

By the time the oil light is on it's too late - pressure is down to a few PSI, whereas if we're up against gradual blocking of the oil pickup strainer the tell tale signs would be there earlier on an oil pressure gauge. :-/



Kevin

I was thinking of doing this a while ago but -

Wgere would you site the gauge, would you just fit one under the bonnet and check weekly.

Capillary or elecctric type?

Where would be the best place to plumb it into to.
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Road Hog Mad on 19 August 2010, 15:31:06
Quote
This little spate of oil pressure related episodes makes me wonder if an oil pressure gauge would be a wise addition?

By the time the oil light is on it's too late - pressure is down to a few PSI, whereas if we're up against gradual blocking of the oil pickup strainer the tell tale signs would be there earlier on an oil pressure gauge. :-/

Prophylactic cleaning of the sump and strainer is probably an excellent idea, though, and probably negates the need for a gauge if the car is subsequently looked after.

I think these are the consequences of a 20k service interval starting to bite. It's also worth bearing in mind that with the introduction of that service interval came a requirement for higher spec. oil, and for annual changes if the 20K isn't reached.

20k service interval being applied, but with whatever cheap oil the garage has in their bulk container?

.. and another reminder that if the oil light comes on, the engine needs to stop immediately. A few seconds longer can kill it in this state, let alone a mile.

Quote
the top of a 2.6 has been succesfully mated to the bottom half of a 3.0

I wonder what compression ratio that engine ended up with? :o

Kevin

the american version has an oil pressure gauge.
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: aaronjb on 19 August 2010, 17:10:47
Quote
Wgere would you site the gauge, would you just fit one under the bonnet and check weekly.

There's really no point in doing that - you may as well just rely on the idiot light on the dash.. what you want is a gauge that will alert you, as you're driving, that the oil pressure isn't quite what it should be - rather than something you check from time to time at idle on your driveway..

Quote
Capillary or elecctric type?

Electric, every time - so much easier than trying to route stiff capillary hose through into a cabin.  Myself I rather like SPA gauges (get oil pressure & oil temperature on one gauge) which use very nice stainless steel aero grade sensors.

Quote
Where would be the best place to plumb it into to.

Can't answer that one but there is bound to be somewhere you can fit some kind of a fitting to; T-piece in where oil lines go to an oil cooler, or some kind of sandwich adapter under the oil filter housing..
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: andyc on 19 August 2010, 17:44:59
Take the normal OP switch out, fit a T piece and then fit the OP switch back on one side and gauage sensor on the other

Andy
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 August 2010, 23:42:18
Another option is a higher pressure oil light switch so it comes on a little earlier. Problem is, you will then get it coming on at idle when the oil is hot.

http://www.thinkauto.com/earlywarning.htm

Kevin
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: tidla on 20 August 2010, 00:28:34
Quote
Another option is a higher pressure oil light switch so it comes on a little earlier. Problem is, you will then get it coming on at idle when the oil is hot.

http://www.thinkauto.com/earlywarning.htm

Kevin

audi coupe i have long ago had all sorts of gauges including oil presure.

as said on idle it would be worrying low.

i think the big problem is the extended oil change interval with oils which are.. not adequate.

good clean of the sump and pick ups and back to a 10k interval will save the fretted look at an oil gauge.
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 August 2010, 13:14:26
Quote
good clean of the sump and pick ups and back to a 10k interval will save the fretted look at an oil gauge.

I would say 10K is still a bit ambitious, TBH. But agreed on the gauge and cleaning the sump (and oil pickup).

Kevin
Title: Re: 2.6 V6 - Oil light - Is it terminal??
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 August 2010, 13:25:11
Quote
Quote
Another option is a higher pressure oil light switch so it comes on a little earlier. Problem is, you will then get it coming on at idle when the oil is hot.

http://www.thinkauto.com/earlywarning.htm

Kevin

audi coupe i have long ago had all sorts of gauges including oil presure.

as said on idle it would be worrying low.

i think the big problem is the extended oil change interval with oils which are.. not adequate.

good clean of the sump and pick ups and back to a 10k interval will save the fretted look at an oil gauge.

Agreed, I am yet to be convinced that there is ANY oil that can stand such a silly service interval for all use.