Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: humbucker on 24 July 2010, 13:39:35
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if you were to turbo the v6, essentially an exercise in replicating the set up of a vectra vxr, would you need to use stronger pistons and uprated injectors? presumably an adjustable fuel pressure regulator too? i wondered how strong the pistons in a stock x30xe were in comparison to a c20let and whether or not they would cope with the pressure. would steel rods be essential too?
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You'd most likely have to reduce the compression ratio, but to what, I don't know.
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i read somewhere that LET pistons are the same bore as the x30xe so that could be an easy way of reducing compression for turbo use?
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It's a bit like asking how long a piece of string is, really.. But here's a list to get you started:
Two turbos (£5-800 each)
Two new exhaust manifolds (I was quoted some £1000 for a single custom tubular manifold, recently)
Two new downpipes
Engine management
Probably larger fuel injectors
Possibly a fuel rail to suit if you can't find VX fitment injectors that are bigger
If you're happy with low boost you might be able to keep the stock compression ratio, crank & rods - depends quite how chocolate they are (for example, on the 1ZZFE in my other car, I kept stock pistons, rods and crank and as long as I stay below 300bhp they'll hold fine - that's double stock power..).
If you're going to split the engine and start replacing rods etc then you may as well drop forged custom pistons in there (JE or Cosworth will make them up to any specification you require)
How deep is your wallet? It cost me some £3k for the basic setup on the 4-pot MR2, and you have an extra turbo and manifold to worry about..
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you can run a single turbo on the v engines, the saab 3.0 runs a single turbo as does the vectra vxr; twin custom manifolds with a single feed to the turbo. two turbos would be ideal, but not realistic given a budget and the space you have to play with in the 'bay.
it was the other considerations really, running standard boost what sort of gains would you see and would the stock x30xe pistons turn to chocolate and melt through usage. obviously custom items are preferred, but just seeing what is possible on stock internals at this stage.
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If this is on the Omega would a supercharger not be easier, there is space to squeeze one in - I wouldn't fancy the chances of getting a turbo in against the chassis.
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Is the GM 2.8T (as used in Cadilac, Saab, VX Insignia etc) based on the same block as the X30XE?
If it is you would probably achieve the best results for the least outlay by transplanting one from a rolled Saab or Insignia.........
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If this is on the Omega would a supercharger not be easier, there is space to squeeze one in - I wouldn't fancy the chances of getting a turbo in against the chassis.
Came to a similar concusion personally, then thought fitting a lower geared dif would be easier cheeper and easier to insure.
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Aren't the vxr's and vectras all front wheel drive hence different exhaust routing. Just wondering how to run a rear wheel drive v engine off one turbo?
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If this is on the Omega would a supercharger not be easier, there is space to squeeze one in - I wouldn't fancy the chances of getting a turbo in against the chassis.
Came to a similar concusion personally, then thought fitting a lower geared dif would be easier cheeper and easier to insure.
Has this helped a lot? Always thought circa 50 mph in first put a dampner on the 0 to 60 times ;D Did think about nitrous a while ago, its there when you need/want it but doesn't cost anything if you don't.
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its not for a rear wheel drive application, but it is an x30xe.
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somewhere in a [previous turbo thread are the pictures of my old turbo estate? this was a courtney conversion and it didnt have the compression lowered!!! however it did lunch the bottom end a couple of times!! cant fiind the thread at the mo but am sure someone will remember it?
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so courtenay just stuck a turbo on the stock engine in your estate without any other modification?!
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cooling will be the first problem imo as v6 already works too hot..
external oil cooler (so coolant flow increase also) and a higher rate coolant pump is critical..
and a custom map with a different ecu :-/
ps car must be definitely manual..
pps wallet must be deep ;D
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Probably easier...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwZiKZQeSWo&feature=related
More videos by the same person. Sounds cool from inside.
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The cheapest and easiest way to mount a pair of turbos to the X30XE engine would be to fit them to the rear of the exhaust pipes and route the boost back to the engine. This way you don't require expensive custom manifolds, you don't lose room in the engine bay and engine bay temps are also kept low. The are plenty of off the shelf kits for Corvettes etc. Have a look here for example: http://www.ststurbo.com/ it's a proven method that has been used on lots of cars.
However, the inherent weakness in the X30XE (it's not designed with sufficient cooling ability to take considerable power increases) means that I'd imagine you'd still be far better off swapping the motor for something more suitable for big power in the first place.
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Ah yes - those remote mounted turbo kits that have so much intake volume to compress thanks to the long intake pipes that turbo lag must be measured in days :)
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Nonsense.
Providing the correctly sized turbos and intake piping are used, lag is no more of an issue than a conventional front-mounted turbo.
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hmmm.
lag is caused byht etime it takes to compress the amount of air between the turbocharger and the engine.
more air = more lag, even with a properly-matched turbo.
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why turbo/supercharge you v6 when you can put a v8 in there a lot cheaper. Its cost me £2500 to get my dream omega together ls1 5.7 v8 and blower mot'd monday taxed and insured and ive emptied 3 tank full fuel so far the look on peoples faces when they see what havoc i can unleash on other performance cars egos and there owners PRICELESS
oh yes forgot to add took 6 months of hard work to sort it all out and deep pockets to run, super unleaded @15 miles to the gallon when having fun
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I agree entirely! Wow how did you even get the parts for 2.5k!? Good job. Would probably cost that much to stop the V6 exploding/melting if it was putting out anywhere near that amount of power. I may have said this one or two times already, but I'm dying to check out your car! And when the current project is finished my own meggy may very well take the same kind of steroids.:)
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I put an X30XE in a Ford Kak a while back but after getting bored of it I started a turbo conversion, it's not back on the road yet so I can't say anything about it's reliability but I'm hoping I've taken the appropriate measures to not blow it up!
Due to having no room left in the bay I've put the turbo in the boot with it's own oil supply (to save the engine should the turbo s*it itself and not wanting to put any stress on the standard oil pump), intercooler etc.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/ShonkyBob/RemoteTurbo/Photo0244.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/ShonkyBob/RemoteTurbo/Photo0474.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/ShonkyBob/RemoteTurbo/turbo.jpg)
I'm running Volvo t5 injectors with a 3.8bar FPR which should fuel enough for 400bhp which means running at 320ish (desired figure) it'll be safe, I've ghetto decompressed the engine with spacer plates (down to 8.5:1) and have installed aftermarket management
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/ShonkyBob/RemoteTurbo/decomp.jpg)
I've got a hole in the bonnet with a scoop underneath to direct air over the rear manifold and I binned the standard oil cooler and made a remote one with an oil cooler from a scrappies and had the hoses braised onto the oil pipes near to the filter on the engine
Hopefully with all this lot done it won't blow up! If I was stupid enough to do another one of these then I'd base it on the Saab v6 turbo engine as they have under piston oil squirters and stronger rods but by all accounts it's still not a "strong" motor.
Another thing I will say is I've heard C20/Z20LET pistons won't work as desired as the valve cut outs are wrong however Z20LEH pistons suit better but that's just what I've heard
I've also got a very large capacity radiator hanging out the front, it's 1.5x the capacity of the vectra v6 one
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/ShonkyBob/Ka/kak.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/ShonkyBob/Ka/Photo0980.jpg)
If it's in a FWD then the remote turbo should work well knowing the problems the x30 motor has, if it's RWD then I'd agree with omegadan67, just put a v8, a bmw 740 v8 even fits in a Ka engine bay lol
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/project_photos_2009/2010_03_06/Photo1026.jpg)
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/project_photos_2009/2010_03_06/06-03-10_1707.jpg)
It's not an Omega but would need the same work to do, everyone needs this in their life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f86bsY1Iv9I&feature=search
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For that amount of work I would have RWDed the Kak, easier to get at bits then, and as you said drop in a V8.
It would have been worth it for the handling alone.
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Cool project! Out of interest what made you go for the vaux engine instead of keeping it the family and using a nice ally ford V6? How thick are your ghetto spacers? Did they not cause the coolant bridge and inlet manifolds to not fit on properly, or did you just get away with it?
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Is the red Ka cheating though? That looks like a Scimitar chassis to me...
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Cough Cough.... Housekeeping! ;D ;D ;D
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(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1517/heavydutyyellowduster.jpg)
:)
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(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1517/heavydutyyellowduster.jpg)
:)
Thanks Nige :y :y
:D
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Cor, it's a bit (http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/3253_Dusty_Springfield_3.jpg) in here..
(I know, the joke is all played out now, it took me a while to find a picture :P )
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why turbo/supercharge you v6 when you can put a v8 in there a lot cheaper. Its cost me £2500 to get my dream omega together ls1 5.7 v8 and blower mot'd monday taxed and insured and ive emptied 3 tank full fuel so far the look on peoples faces when they see what havoc i can unleash on other performance cars egos and there owners PRICELESS
oh yes forgot to add took 6 months of hard work to sort it all out and deep pockets to run, super unleaded @15 miles to the gallon when having fun
that what I get from my V6 some days :)
by the way
any chance to come and have look you project??
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lmfao! i looked into turboing an x25xev, you need the big green injectors rather than the blue T5 injectors... i have a t5....you need an uprated fuel pump in a t5 and uprated injectors to get over 320 bhp thats at 1.2 or 1.3bar of boost which the v6 engine wont take anyway, you'll get either lockup or bend a rod (or in the case of the omega probably just snap it instead)
sorry to bring you such bad news but i very much doubt it'll be reliable
the saab griffin 3.0 assymetric turbo only runs about 0.5 bar of boost so it'll be about 230bhp and 330nm at a guess!
alex
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This thread is over a year old ;) ;) Hence the housekeeping gag ::) ::)
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sorry LD...wheres a mod when you need one :D
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The bottom line is that an Omega will never ever be a sports car so putting more power under the bonnet will only make you feel better. It will never handle like it should with 250+ horsepower, nor it will never reach below 7 second 0-100km/h acceleration. So, why to put money twice the value of a car to have more power in it while you could buy a decent sports car...
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(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26795734/Smilies/resurrection.jpg)
;D ;D ;D
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Question...
Is the 3.2 better suited to turbos or is it still the same story of melting pistons and exploding radiators?
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Question...
Is the 3.2 better suited to turbos or is it still the same story of melting pistons and exploding radiators?
Who knows? That's the problem with all of this. If you go down this route you will be a trailblazer, so you will find answers to all of these questions along the way. Some of those answers might come at a considerable cost. ;)
Given that the only direct experience offered has accompanied takes of bottom ends giving up, I suspect it might be a path fraught with many painful lessons, but for those feeling adventurous, why not? Personally, I'd drop something like a Saab 4 pot in. Plenty of "prior art", and known to be solidly reliable to over 300 BHP.