Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: DK MV6 on 05 September 2010, 14:51:11
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Hi.
Sorry to start another topic as i suspect this problem has a connection to my previous post regarding oil in water and changing to oil cooler.
Long story short. Found oil in waterm but no water in oil. suspected oil cooler and changed that. Hard to say if the oil in the water now is something i havent flushed completely yet or its new.
But i got a new problem now. As soon as the car gets some decent watertemp. The water starts to rise in the coolant tank. If i put the cap on is starts to boil.!!
i removed the radiator to clean it after the oil in water issue, and has established that is has a positive flow. It seems that the engine flows the water also, as i removed the large top water hose and the water is running from it.
But as i said, in a matter of 4 minutes in the garage at idle the coolant boils in the expansion tank. Also there is NO heat inside the car??
My first meet with an Omega doesnt seem to be a love story! :-/
Can anyone try to point me in the right direction before i take the heads off to replaced headgaskets.. ( had another car had these symptoms i had changed the headgasket at once. But as i read here, there can be alot of faults that can appear as headgaskets on a omega.)
best regards
Jacob
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If you've had oil in the coolant in suffient quantity & now have no heat in the cabin, then it's odds on the heater matrix is blocked with oil emulsion debris. Also the coolant boiling with the system closed (i.e. expansion cap on) means the system is not pressurising enough to raise the coolant boiling point temperature, which may now point to head gasket failure given that you have renewed the oil cooler? :-/ :(
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Hi.
Thanks for getting back to me.
I was just wondering if there was anything else that could cause the coolant to boil with expansion cap on. . But as i established a waterflow through the engine and radiator it might be headgaskets.
It doesnt start right away.. I can have the car at idle for 3-4 minutes with the expansion cap off, the all of the sudden the water rises in the expansion tank. Capping the tank again just results in boiling coolant. to a point where you can here it boil through the hoses.. But the temp gauge in the dashboard doesnt seem to indicate "overheating" untill around 1 minute after boiling occurs.
I REALLY just dont want to take the engine apart to do headgaskets when all that work and money is involved, if its a small overlooked thing that came as a result of the oil in water.
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but the whole job of fixing the oil in water has been a headache.. I was sure it was the oil cooler as there was no water in the oil, only oil in water. but when i removed the old oil cooler i couldnt find ANY positive indicator that it was leaking.. A Vauxhall expert here in Denmark told me it was the headgasket before i made the decision to check the oil cooler ( only because it was a cheaper and less time consuming option.) So the car has been at a stand still, since i replaced the oil cooler. And before i replaced the oil cooler, there was NO coolant pressurrizing problems..
If its was the headgasket in the first place it would have been a leak between a oil channel and a water channel.. And now without driving the car, the headgasket should have developed a leak into a cylinder wich pressurize the coolant system.. doesnt that sound weird?
best regards
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You still have gunk in the system, I suspect the rad is blocked again
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I would be inclined to introduce an aggressive oil dispersant into the cooling system to ensure that any pockets of oil buildup are removed. It can be a long job removing oil contamination after a oil cooler failure :(
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You still have gunk in the system, I suspect the rad is blocked again
And the heater matrix.
This guide Flushing the heater matrix (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263473441) describes how to flush & backflush the heater matrix.
If both heater and radiator are full of oil & mayonaise you should consider flushing the system with detergent. I think people have described using 'traffic film remover' or 'truck wash'.
My car had a new oil cooler fitted just before I bought it. The previous owner described how it had taken several flushes of 'truck wash' to get the cooling system clean.
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You still have gunk in the system, I suspect the rad is blocked again
And the heater matrix.
This guide Flushing the heater matrix (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263473441) describes how to flush & backflush the heater matrix.
If both heater and radiator are full of oil & mayonaise you should consider flushing the system with detergent. I think people have described using 'traffic film remover' or 'truck wash'.
My car had a new oil cooler fitted just before I bought it. The previous owner described how it had taken several flushes of 'truck wash' to get the cooling system clean.
Understatement with the Estate - many flushes to clear.
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ill have to try to soak the coolant system with a detergent over night... 4 Liters of engine wash and then let it sit.. Then do a couple of flushes after that with more engine wash. If that doesnt free the system up to a level where it will keep it from boiling.. Then it must be headgaskets.. just not looking forward to removing the radiator again.. that wasnt easy either :-X
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I was wondering if it is a no-no to actually inject little higher pressure water say from a pressure washer to blow out the gunk without damaging the systems. This way you can also easily inject detergent and water alternately without rejigging.
Cheers.
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I was wondering if it is a no-no to actually inject little higher pressure water say from a pressure washer to blow out the gunk without damaging the systems. This way you can also easily inject detergent and water alternately without rejigging.
Cheers.
The cooling system is designed to run at a maximum of 14psi so a pressure washer (750psi to 1300psi) is not going to do it any favours I fear.
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Hi.
Thanks for getting back to me.
I was just wondering if there was anything else that could cause the coolant to boil with expansion cap on. . But as i established a waterflow through the engine and radiator it might be headgaskets.
It doesnt start right away.. I can have the car at idle for 3-4 minutes with the expansion cap off, the all of the sudden the water rises in the expansion tank. Capping the tank again just results in boiling coolant. to a point where you can here it boil through the hoses.. But the temp gauge in the dashboard doesnt seem to indicate "overheating" untill around 1 minute after boiling occurs.
I REALLY just dont want to take the engine apart to do headgaskets when all that work and money is involved, if its a small overlooked thing that came as a result of the oil in water.
Lol, the rad may have been clear but having circulated the coolant and gunk around it may well be clogged up again
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as far as i know there are positive flow through the radiator . I checked once again before i left the workshop, first with the top hose off, then with the bottom hose off. And it still boils the water.
Does the water run from the expansion tank via the bottom hose through the radiator and out through the top hose and into the engine.? and where is the thermostat placed related to this route?
Could the thermostat stay closed so the water isnt circulating through the engine, i would still see a flow through the radiator eventhough the water isnt passing through the engine.
I dont get this. Im beginning to be tempted to do headgaskets, just to rule it out ( i know thats crazy.. ) But i just got twins 6 month ago and im on the edge of sanity anyways.. And i DONT need this headache now! :D
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I was wondering if it is a no-no to actually inject little higher pressure water say from a pressure washer to blow out the gunk without damaging the systems. This way you can also easily inject detergent and water alternately without rejigging.
Cheers.
The cooling system is designed to run at a maximum of 14psi so a pressure washer (750psi to 1300psi) is not going to do it any favours I fear.
Andy H, I was thinking of suitable loose coupling or simply keeping close enough with some plastic funnel on it but the spray could introduce lot of scrubbing as it will become a mix of air and water. One has to be comfortable managing the pressure washer though without introducing the full pressure. You are right about the heater maximum PSI limit and the Pressure washer being quite a mismatch.
I recently flushed my coolant per the OOF directions as I did a cam belt and water pump and had little to lose not do it the same time. I wish I had though about this I would have tried it.
Cheers.
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Andy H, I was thinking of suitable loose coupling or simply keeping close enough with some plastic funnel on it but the spray could introduce lot of scrubbing as it will become a mix of air and water. One has to be comfortable managing the pressure washer though without introducing the full pressure. You are right about the heater maximum PSI limit and the Pressure washer being quite a mismatch.
I recently flushed my coolant per the OOF directions as I did a cam belt and water pump and had little to lose not do it the same time. I wish I had though about this I would have tried it.
Cheers.
Because the thermostat doesn't open below 85 degC there is no point trying to flush the radiator by flushing cold water through the header tank.
To clean the radiator you need to either
- fill the cooling system with some cleaning agent, run the engine up to temperature & then drain
or
- remove the radiator and clean it out of the vehicle.
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If you can get hold of a low-foam biological detergent, and some of that "Vanish" oxygen stain removing powder stuff, stick a strong solution in the engine, run it gently up until the thermostat opens, which you can feel on the top hose, run for a further 20 minutes at low rpm then leave to stand for 24 hours. Drain, flush with clean water. Repeat the low foam biological/vanish cycle. when I did a mates oil cooler it took 10 of those cycles to get all the crud out, but after that he had no problems at all. basically .. don't try and rus h it ... and make sure you get ALL the old emulsified oil out.
The biological/vanish combination seems to work quite well.
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Andy H, I was thinking of suitable loose coupling or simply keeping close enough with some plastic funnel on it but the spray could introduce lot of scrubbing as it will become a mix of air and water. One has to be comfortable managing the pressure washer though without introducing the full pressure. You are right about the heater maximum PSI limit and the Pressure washer being quite a mismatch.
I recently flushed my coolant per the OOF directions as I did a cam belt and water pump and had little to lose not do it the same time. I wish I had though about this I would have tried it.
Cheers.
Because the thermostat doesn't open below 85 degC there is no point trying to flush the radiator by flushing cold water through the header tank.
To clean the radiator you need to either
- fill the cooling system with some cleaning agent, run the engine up to temperature & then drain
or
- remove the radiator and clean it out of the vehicle.
The part about when the thermostat open, makes me believe that the rising of water in the expansion tank and boiling starts when the thermostat opens.. Does that give anyone a hint to what could be wrong?
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If you can get hold of a low-foam biological detergent, and some of that "Vanish" oxygen stain removing powder stuff, stick a strong solution in the engine, run it gently up until the thermostat opens, which you can feel on the top hose, run for a further 20 minutes at low rpm then leave to stand for 24 hours. Drain, flush with clean water. Repeat the low foam biological/vanish cycle. when I did a mates oil cooler it took 10 of those cycles to get all the crud out, but after that he had no problems at all. basically .. don't try and rus h it ... and make sure you get ALL the old emulsified oil out.
The biological/vanish combination seems to work quite well.
Thanks alot for that advice... It seems like something i have to try. Right now my problem is that i can only run the car for about 3-4 minutes before the pressure builds up and the water in the exspansion tank starts to boil.. Im not sure that will allow the sollution to travel around the engine.. Maybe i have to remove the radiator from the car and give that a clean again, and THEN try to get the sollution through the engine and cooling system . ( if the boiling water in the expansion tank is because of a blocked radiator?? :-/ )
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Thanks alot for that advice... It seems like something i have to try. Right now my problem is that i can only run the car for about 3-4 minutes before the pressure builds up and the water in the exspansion tank starts to boil.. Im not sure that will allow the sollution to travel around the engine.. Maybe i have to remove the radiator from the car and give that a clean again, and THEN try to get the sollution through the engine and cooling system . ( if the boiling water in the expansion tank is because of a blocked radiator?? :-/ )
I'm not familiar with the setup on the V6, but would it be easier to remove the thermostat and clean the whole system.
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Took me ages to get all the oil out of my 2.5. Even now I still get the odd blob of oil, I've lost count of how many times I've flushed it.
Keep perservering!
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Also maybe the possibility that the pressure release on the cap on the expansion tank is clogged up so not releasing excess pressure??