Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Scatmancraig on 18 September 2010, 15:44:55

Title: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Scatmancraig on 18 September 2010, 15:44:55
I have owned a scruffy 2.5TD Omega for about a month now, and it seems to be lacking power when on hills.  In fact, its seems to lack low-end power in general, it's just more noticeable on hills!  It goes ok when you put a few revs on (i've had 130 out of it and it was still pulling like a train), but as soon as you start going uphill, it struggles a bit unless you really give it some revs.  Even my old 1.0 Micra used to perform better than this does!!

The car has recently been serviced approx 1000 miles ago with new oil and filters, it made no difference to the performance at all.  The car has just gone past 160k overall, and doesn't smoke or make any unusual noises.

One thing to mention, the car does have a Dragon adjustable tuning box fitted to it.  Are these any good?  Should i be turning this up a bit?  Like i said, top end performance seems ok, which is what makes me think that something else might be wrong??

Any ideas what might be wrong?  I'm sure the car is meant to go better than it does, but i don't really have another identical model to compare it with  If anyone in the West Midlands want to take me for a spin in their Omega for comparison purposes then shout up!!
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Welung666 on 18 September 2010, 15:53:53
Paperclip it (instructions below) to see if any codes are stored.

My TD is standard btw :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: hoofing it on 18 September 2010, 17:27:44
As above paperclip it and post any codes :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: whippit on 18 September 2010, 17:41:58
No Idea but hello Craig, fancy bumping into you here ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Omegatoy on 18 September 2010, 20:06:12
lol turn the box up about an quarter of a turn at a time mate,
you wil get a bit more smoke but also more poke!!! dragon box does work i had one on mine before chipping it properly :y

also this is RB old car? if so it will take a bout 10k before its cleaned out engine wise properly, he was all for economy and didnt bother revving it at all so bet its really carboned up, and for sure the i.c. fan will be seized!!! :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 18 September 2010, 20:48:04

Check the small braided pipe that runs from the egr solenoid to the underside of the intake manifold. This is prone to getting blocked or splitting at the connnection nipple on the underside of the manifold.
This has a real effect on performance.   :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Broomies Mate on 18 September 2010, 20:55:02
2.5TD, 130MPH and still pulling? 

Say whut?  :-/
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: unclelicklug on 18 September 2010, 22:15:18
Quote
2.5TD, 130MPH and still pulling

Say whut?  :-/

Based on that you're not short of outright power...maybe be prepared to change down now and again at lower speeds?
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 18 September 2010, 23:46:06


If I'm not mistaken the problem arises when the pedal is put to the floor, as in hill climbing or overtaking. Not gradual speed build up.

I won't be surprised if he paperclips a 43  Invalid Boost Pressure.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: whippit on 18 September 2010, 23:53:32
Quote
Quote
2.5TD, 130MPH and still pulling

Say whut?  :-/

Based on that you're not short of outright power...maybe be prepared to change down now and again at lower speeds?
LOL.............Learn to drive Craig ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Pitchfork on 19 September 2010, 13:03:51
Doesn't like hills? - A move to Norfolk will resolve problem  :D
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: maracus on 19 September 2010, 13:29:34
Quote
2.5TD, 130MPH and still pulling? 

Say whut?  :-/

i got followed by an ill equipped traffic cop who claimed '140 and I still wasn't catching you up' in my old one. obviously that was a slight exaggeration on the coppers part but the speedo was reading 135...
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: dervdoc on 19 September 2010, 14:40:33
Quote
Quote
2.5TD, 130MPH and still pulling? 

Say whut?  :-/

i got followed by an ill equipped traffic cop who claimed '140 and I still wasn't catching you up' in my old one. obviously that was a slight exaggeration on the coppers part but the speedo was reading 135...
lmao  ;D ;D ;D had the same when they pulled me in on the m1 here, got away with a stern talking to :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Broomies Mate on 19 September 2010, 21:15:34
So is it general opinion that a 2.5TD is capable of 130-140MPH?  :-/

The three I have driven (admittedly old dogs) have ran out of steam (smoke) just the naughty side of a tonne.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: charlie on 19 September 2010, 22:32:07
YUP,im used todo 135 now 120 on a private road of course,not chipped jst standed but it did break the hbv :y :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: maracus on 20 September 2010, 20:00:48
Quote
So is it general opinion that a 2.5TD is capable of 130-140MPH?  :-/

The three I have driven (admittedly old dogs) have ran out of steam (smoke) just the naughty side of a tonne.

I'd say yeah my old one was a dog but bugger did it go, I dunno maybe it was chipped. It frustrates me when my current one goes flat at 110-115 i've never had a car that i couldn't coax at least nearly off the clock  ;D
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Psychoca on 21 September 2010, 10:13:14
Quote
Doesn't like hills? - A move to Norfolk will resolve problem  :D


Norfolk is far too hilly!!!  Lincolnshire Fens, Now they are flat...  Bumpy, but flat! 

Mine has some sort of limiter on it...  Kicks in at 85 and every 5mph aftwer over-ride, it is a proper PITA...

Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: flymofred on 21 September 2010, 16:33:41
hello I also have a TD that makes a fuss about hills with the auto box changing down until I am at 3k + up long hills and of course a huge rise in temp. I have been out to check the EGR connections unfortnunately both rubber hoses got knocked taking the EGR off, clearly not an airtight fit. The connections are marked VAC & OUT. One  hose has a blue trace on it and is connected a diaprahm on the intake of the inlet manifold, the other hose is plain black and is connected to a hard plastic line which runs parallel to the fuel injectors. Which way round should they be? Annoyingly the braided  hose was fine!!

Thanks martinH
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 21 September 2010, 20:39:29
Quote
hello I also have a TD that makes a fuss about hills with the auto box changing down until I am at 3k + up long hills and of course a huge rise in temp. I have been out to check the EGR connections unfortnunately both rubber hoses got knocked taking the EGR off, clearly not an airtight fit. The connections are marked VAC & OUT. One  hose has a blue trace on it and is connected a diaprahm on the intake of the inlet manifold, the other hose is plain black and is connected to a hard plastic line which runs parallel to the fuel injectors. Which way round should they be? Annoyingly the braided  hose was fine!!

Thanks martinH

This one (blue tracer) fits on the underside nipple and the other with the filter on the upper nipple that points toward the front of the engine.
Did you take the braided hose off to check it, splits in the rubber are difficult to see through the braid. Also poke a small drill or bit of wire into the nipple under the manifold to make sure it is not blocked.    :y

Do you have any error codes?
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: flymofred on 21 September 2010, 21:22:38
changed the braided one and blew it through also changed the one that goes to where the injectors are as it just fell off the nipple on the EGR. Haven't done error, reason, don't know how to I taken it out for a run locally and it seems to go fine. I was hoping to find the cause of the appalling oil over the top hose but no luck I have already changed all the hoses on induction side, thinking manifold pressure was leaking out and forcing the oil out as well but no luck. hey ho.

martinH
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 21 September 2010, 21:27:13
Quote
changed the braided one and blew it through also changed the one that goes to where the injectors are as it just fell off the nipple on the EGR. Haven't done error, reason, don't know how to I taken it out for a run locally and it seems to go fine. I was hoping to find the cause of the appalling oil over the top hose but no luck I have already changed all the hoses on induction side, thinking manifold pressure was leaking out and forcing the oil out as well but no luck. hey ho.

martinH


http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687

       :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2010, 22:16:06
Never had more than 130 out of my old tractor, still pulling hard, ran out of lanes on the M1.

Believe it or not, in the 2yrs I had it, I never had opportunity to max it :o
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Elite Pete on 21 September 2010, 22:22:58
Never taken mine over 100 but its fairly quick getting there ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 21 September 2010, 22:24:12
Quote
Never had more than 130 out of my old tractor, still pulling hard, ran out of lanes on the M1.

Believe it or not, in the 2yrs I had it, I never had opportunity to max it :o

I wouldn't even dream of maxing mine. I happen to know who did the work on the brakes and suspension.   :-[ :-[ :-[  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: flymofred on 21 September 2010, 22:52:52
I tried the link you kindly provided but I get this message: This field only accepts numbers from 0-9 Thread ID: '1189022687

perhaps I haven't paid my subs to date???

martinH
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Entwood on 21 September 2010, 23:00:12
he's added a space and a ; to the link .. edit it out so it ends at .. sod it ,, try here ,...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687


:)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 21 September 2010, 23:00:16
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687


Thanks Entwood, the emoticon was too close.    :D
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Squidy on 22 September 2010, 07:41:46
would it be easy to disconnect the tuning box? that's where i would start as it's a aftermarket part related to performance. disconnect it to see if it makes a difference! i nearly got a tuning box on my 306 hdi but after reading up on the 306 fourm's found chipping is the way to go, as i understand all a tuning box does is fool the ecu into overfueling the car by changing the air mass meter readings, not ideal really! :-/
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: flymofred on 28 September 2010, 17:50:15
well thanks guys my car runs much better having sorted out the EGR pipes. had a scare going to Colchester when it decided to really not do hills and no power managed 70mph on the flat but only just, broken-hearted as it seemed brilliant when I ran around the village the day before. Well the cause I hadn't clipped the multi-block securely onto the EGR (rush rush) anyway plugged it back on (securely) a different car managed 31mpg at 70plus only got 20mpg on the way up from T.Wells.

I  have noticed just in front of the bracket that has the EGR on is what looks like an in-line fuel filter with rubber hoses designed to take vacuum hoses but no pipes on either side what is this supposed to do. I took photo on my phone but I now realise (15 mins later) I have no idea how to attach to this. Sorry :-[

martinH
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 28 September 2010, 19:24:43
Quote
well thanks guys my car runs much better having sorted out the EGR pipes.

I  have noticed just in front of the bracket that has the EGR on is what looks like an in-line fuel filter with rubber hoses designed to take vacuum hoses but no pipes on either side what is this supposed to do. I took photo on my phone but I now realise (15 mins later) I have no idea how to attach to this. Sorry :-[
martinH

This should be connected inline on the pipe that comes off the EGR upper nipple (with the rubber elbow) and the hard plastic pipe that runs the parallel with the intake manifold.

The filter was possibly disconnected cause it was blocked.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: flymofred on 28 September 2010, 19:41:13
Cheers Kneepad there are three hoses off that EGR one is a hard plastic hose about 3-4ins. the connection is away from the other 2 connectors should that be to anything i thought I read somewhere that it was an oil drain although i can't  see where the oil comes from as this connector seems to be in a seperate part of the valve. I have looked at the schematic on this link; http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DF72&mospid=47543&btnr=11_1552&hg=11&fg=40 , but i'm still not sure if mine is hooked up properly. 'The more you learn the more realise you don't know'

martinH
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Seth on 28 September 2010, 19:58:00
Quote
changed the braided one and blew it through also changed the one that goes to where the injectors are as it just fell off the nipple on the EGR. Haven't done error, reason, don't know how to I taken it out for a run locally and it seems to go fine. I was hoping to find the cause of the appalling oil over the top hose but no luck I have already changed all the hoses on induction side, thinking manifold pressure was leaking out and forcing the oil out as well but no luck. hey ho.

martinH

The root cause of this is oil mist from the turbo.

'Cured' my first TD by cleaning-out the charge-air pipe, (embossed 'Turbo Diesel'), at each 2.5k oil-change.
Also routed a small-bore tube from the EGR valve down behind the rad. You get the odd drip of oil on the road, but that's preferential to it all over the N/S/F of the engine bay, which is not helped by the viscous fan blowing it!

HTH ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: chrism551 on 28 September 2010, 20:31:40
yoo could be talking about my car here, sometimes on hills i think of getting out and walking cos it would be faster. I will be checking those  pipes for sure now
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 28 September 2010, 20:35:29


Ok, I went to get some pics for you but it's  too dark.
I'll try to explain as I see it on mine.
The whole "EGR" assembly consists of 3 parts.  1:The top part is the bonnet switch, ignore this. 2:Under that you have the MAP sensor with one pipe which connects to the underside of the intake manifold. 3:Under this you have the EGR solenoid with two pipes, the one with the blue tracer goes to the EGR valve at the front of the intake manifold. The other goes to the small filter then on to the hard plastic pipe that runs parallel with the Intake manifold.
There is no oil pipe. Unless you have a different setup from me.
I'll get some pics tomorrow for you.    :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 28 September 2010, 20:40:31
Quote
Quote
changed the braided one and blew it through also changed the one that goes to where the injectors are as it just fell off the nipple on the EGR. Haven't done error, reason, don't know how to I taken it out for a run locally and it seems to go fine. I was hoping to find the cause of the appalling oil over the top hose but no luck I have already changed all the hoses on induction side, thinking manifold pressure was leaking out and forcing the oil out as well but no luck. hey ho.

martinH

The root cause of this is oil mist from the turbo.

'Cured' my first TD by cleaning-out the charge-air pipe, (embossed 'Turbo Diesel'), at each 2.5k oil-change.
Also routed a small-bore tube from the EGR valve down behind the rad. You get the odd drip of oil on the road, but that's preferential to it all over the N/S/F of the engine bay, which is not helped by the viscous fan blowing it!

HTH ;) ;) ;)


Fully agree here with the cleaning the (embossed 'Turbo Diesel').  However the small bore pipe should be connected to your EGR solenoid.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Seth on 28 September 2010, 20:50:39
Quote
Quote
Quote
changed the braided one and blew it through also changed the one that goes to where the injectors are as it just fell off the nipple on the EGR. Haven't done error, reason, don't know how to I taken it out for a run locally and it seems to go fine. I was hoping to find the cause of the appalling oil over the top hose but no luck I have already changed all the hoses on induction side, thinking manifold pressure was leaking out and forcing the oil out as well but no luck. hey ho.

martinH

The root cause of this is oil mist from the turbo.

'Cured' my first TD by cleaning-out the charge-air pipe, (embossed 'Turbo Diesel'), at each 2.5k oil-change.
Also routed a small-bore tube from the EGR valve down behind the rad. You get the odd drip of oil on the road, but that's preferential to it all over the N/S/F of the engine bay, which is not helped by the viscous fan blowing it!

HTH ;) ;) ;)


Fully agree here with the cleaning the (embossed 'Turbo Diesel').  However the small bore pipe should be connected to your EGR solenoid.

It is ........
But there are TWO small-bore pipes at the base of my EGR valve.
The outer one (and smallEST bore one) is connected as you say above.
The other is connected to a nipple at the base of the EGR valve, and is merely a vent or drain.
Some valves don't have this nipple - these have a hole instead, and this is where the oil emerges from.

The valve will not operate unless it's vented to atmosphere - hence my modification!
 ;)
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 28 September 2010, 20:57:45


Sorry, I stand corrected.  :-[Havn't seen one like that.  :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: 377 on 28 September 2010, 22:38:48
Quote

Ok, I went to get some pics for you but it's  too dark.
I'll try to explain as I see it on mine.
The whole "EGR" assembly consists of 3 parts.  1:The top part is the bonnet switch, ignore this. 2:Under that you have the MAP sensor with one pipe which connects to the underside of the intake manifold. 3:Under this you have the EGR solenoid with two pipes, the one with the blue tracer goes to the EGR valve at the front of the intake manifold. The other goes to the small filter then on to the hard plastic pipe that runs parallel with the Intake manifold.
There is no oil pipe. Unless you have a different setup from me.
I'll get some pics tomorrow for you.    :y

Hmm thanks for that info, I have a horrible feeling mine is all the wrong way round, I have no blue trace tube (perished and replaced)

Pictures will be great  :y
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 29 September 2010, 22:40:51
There are obviously different vesions of this. Here is my layout:

(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6946/egrmap.jpg)

Maybe someone with a different setup could post a pic.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: 377 on 30 September 2010, 08:00:44
Thanks for that Kneepad, mine was right, so that rules that one out :D
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: SR-71 Blackbird on 30 September 2010, 09:39:36
Kneepad, could you take a photo of your EGR valve area, because i have an EGR valve with two very small holes on the right hand side as you face the engine bay, and there is simply a tiny tube connecting the two together, is this right? i clean this tube by blowing through it and a little bit of oil comes out when i do, are these two supposed to be connected together or is one of them supposed to connect to elsewhere on the engine,

regards

Alex
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 30 September 2010, 10:32:54


See Sethsmate's post above. Looks like he has the same type as you. I have different EGR Valve.
Title: Re: Omega 2.5 TD - Doesn't like hills!!
Post by: Kneepad on 30 September 2010, 10:35:07
In the 2nd and 3rd posts of this thread, both Wellung666 and Hoofing it have suggested. paper clipping. So far I see no results.

I would do as these guys suggest, they know more about this than I do,  and post any results.   :y