Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: gav mv6 on 08 October 2010, 16:49:53

Title: need new front discs again
Post by: gav mv6 on 08 October 2010, 16:49:53
hi this is the second set vaux front discs that a
have kissed goodbye , im after recommendation for uprated ones , as the ones on ebay some seem to be cheapy things , are the ebc turbo groove the way to go ? just thought id ask before i order them

thanks
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2010, 16:53:02
What you doing, warping them? Or just wearing away?


TBH, I've founf the genuine GM ones pretty indestructable, though after a spanking, I also shift to neutral and put handbrake on, rather than sit on footbrake.
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: gav mv6 on 08 October 2010, 16:56:53
the drivers one is warped / u/s
ive got ne gm pads but this time wanna try drilled and grooved  on her .
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2010, 17:02:51
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the drivers one is warped / u/s
ive got ne gm pads but this time wanna try drilled and grooved  on her .
Do you sit with hot brakes with foot hard on brake at junctions? Genuine GM discs do not warp IME.

I don't think the drilled/grooved ones will make a difference to your problem - in fact with most of them being of dubious quality, will probably be worse!
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: Kevin Wood on 08 October 2010, 17:06:39
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the drivers one is warped / u/s
ive got ne gm pads but this time wanna try drilled and grooved  on her .
Do you sit with hot brakes with foot hard on brake at junctions? Genuine GM discs do not warp IME.

I don't think the drilled/grooved ones will make a difference to your problem - in fact with most of them being of dubious quality, will probably be worse!

Agreed. Drilled / grooved disks will probably have a weaker structure than solid of the same quality, and are only really advantageous for clearing pad wear material from brakes used very heavily.

Whilst I'm not enamoured with the my Trade Club pads, the disks have taken some punishment with no signs of warping.

Kevin
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: gav mv6 on 08 October 2010, 17:06:57
its a problem when i gave her a good canning down the a6 and nearly didnt stop ,
been u/s since ...
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2010, 17:13:36
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its a problem when i gave her a good canning down the a6 and nearly didnt stop ,
been u/s since ...
The not stopping will be the pads that have overheated.  Warping of GM discs is only really likely by having your foot fairly hard on the brake at standstill, with red hot discs.  Any steel disc will warp under those circumstances.


I'm not immune from warping Omega discs. Done it 3 times. But never, ever managed it with genuine discs.  And I work in Milton Keynes (which is a brake killer if you're in a hurry), and do enjoy a spirited drive. And occasionally get to play on a local airstrip :D.  I ruin pads all the time, but reiterate, genuine discs are probably as robust as you can get.


If you want drilled/grooved discs for other reasons, thats a different kettle of fish. But to overcome this issue, I think you will be disappointed....
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: gav mv6 on 08 October 2010, 17:14:35
ftp://http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=556900

was thinking of these .http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=556900
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: gav mv6 on 08 October 2010, 17:17:09
i will admit im a spirited driver ... not a lot gets passed me ...

i enjoy driving me mig too much
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: dbug on 08 October 2010, 17:37:44
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ftp://http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=556900

was thinking of these .

Your link doesn't work mate - you set it up as FTP ;)
Over £150 for pair front discs for road use  :o :o - ok for track use :)
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: gav mv6 on 08 October 2010, 17:45:56
think the link works  now
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: hotel21 on 08 October 2010, 18:17:06
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its a problem when i gave her a good canning down the a6 and nearly didnt stop ,
been u/s since ...

sounds like you may also benefit from changing the brake fluid.....  ;)
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 October 2010, 18:17:39
I must say the discs and pads from Vauxhall on my past and present big engined cars have always taken whatever I have thrown at them, and I have never been a slow driver to say the least!!  Long journeys, with high speeds and much braking have just made the kit red hot, but it has all held together. 8-) 8-) 8-)

In my opinion, and I know I could be wrong, unless you have a 200+mph supercar you do not need anything more than the brakes the car is equiped with; the original designers have specified brakes capable of dealing with the top speed of your car (150 mph with a Vx 3.0 V6) ;) ;)

Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: Kevin Wood on 08 October 2010, 18:20:55
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Quote
its a problem when i gave her a good canning down the a6 and nearly didnt stop ,
been u/s since ...

sounds like you may also benefit from changing the brake fluid.....  ;)

Agreed. Disc / pad fading doesn't come with the element of surprise that the OP allures to, IMHO. There is normally plenty of indication that you're running out of brake and should take it easy.

Kevin
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: Stabz2127 on 08 October 2010, 19:21:54
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In my opinion, and I know I could be wrong, unless you have a 200+mph supercar you do not need anything more than the brakes the car is equiped with; the original designers have specified brakes capable of dealing with the top speed of your car (150 mph with a Vx 3.0 V6) ;) ;)

 
You've obviously never owned an old ford, they go but don't stop.  :o
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: 2woody on 09 October 2010, 20:16:40
yep - discs of all types warp very easily - it's actually the calipers I think, too much play in the sliders, even on good ones.

I can't make a pair of discs last longer than about six months.

Mind you, on the two cars I've got with different caliper, no hint of warpage.
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: doug4293 on 10 October 2010, 02:38:29
when u changed the pads did u copper slip the sliders and the brake pins ? may be ur problem if they are sticking ?
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: vexorg on 10 October 2010, 10:03:59
If they are warping due to heat then drilled discs will fail sooner, they crack around the drilled holes with heat.

As above, never had much of an issue with genuine GM discs.
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: TheBoy on 10 October 2010, 10:16:38
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I must say the discs and pads from Vauxhall on my past and present big engined cars have always taken whatever I have thrown at them, and I have never been a slow driver to say the least!!  Long journeys, with high speeds and much braking have just made the kit red hot, but it has all held together. 8-) 8-) 8-)

In my opinion, and I know I could be wrong, unless you have a 200+mph supercar you do not need anything more than the brakes the car is equiped with; the original designers have specified brakes capable of dealing with the top speed of your car (150 mph with a Vx 3.0 V6) ;) ;)

 
In the case of the Omega, whilst the TC pads can take a fair amount of abuse, they are most definately the first part of the system to let go - 7 or 8 80/90mph stops (as in Milton Keynes ::)) will cook them to the point of ineffectiveness. Push before this, and the pedal goes, so presumably fluid goes.  But the discs, they seem to live on and on, just so long as you haven't played silly buggers as above, then sit at next roundabout, waiting for a gap, with your foot hard on the brakes.


As to car designers using right parts....   ....possibly the designers do, but then the bean counters come along.  Most are, at best, adequate on many cars.  In the case of the Omega, I think (for road use), the standard brakes are well up to the job
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: 2woody on 10 October 2010, 19:57:33
pads are the first to show up problems when they can't dump the heat yu're asking them to. solutions are to :-

have "harder" pads
have bigger brakes
or drive slower.

Omega B are really quite small brakes for the size and weight of car.
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: feeutfo on 11 October 2010, 01:30:30
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when u changed the pads did u copper slip the sliders and the brake pins ? may be you are problem if they are sticking ?
Indeed, before buying or changing anything make sure the current set up is working as it should, and sticking sliders would be my first port of call tbh. Clean out under the rubber boots and grease the sliders with the correct heat resistant silicon based grease. Make sure it all works and moves freely.

To check the above push the piston in and open the bleed nipple with a simple bleed kit attached, to force the old fluid out from around the piston and draw some more fluid through with a good bleed of the system. I use 5.1 in mime as it has a higher boiling point, not because I need it generally, just to give a better tolerance if I get brave as it has a higher boiling point.

I would start with that first and see how it goes. Having been in the car with TB on a mission, IMO you've really got to be abusing the brakes to get them to play up, instant full brake force at the latest possible moment tickling the Abs after repeated burying the nose in the floor, in my car to a lesser extent, and I can only imagine how he would drive his own, I would think opts safe to say if your killing discs at that rate, something ain't right with the system.

My personal issue with tc pads is the la k of bite and feel under normal driving conditions, but that wont affect your issues.

Suspect oe pads, to give better bite, and ebc "dimpled" and grooved discs may be a good combination, but only choosing ebc as they seem to be more rust resistant than gm discs afaict, need to confirm this somehow though  :-/
Buypartsby seem to have good prices on ebc discs last I looked. But if there is a fault or binding calliper they will go the exact same way, so check the brakes out IMO.

Hth
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: TheBoy on 11 October 2010, 19:51:44
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I can only imagine how he would drive his own
I am just like Miss Daisy :y
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: Dave Elite on 12 October 2010, 13:24:46
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What you doing, warping them? Or just wearing away?


TBH, I've founf the genuine GM ones pretty indestructable, though after a spanking, I also shift to neutral and put handbrake on, rather than sit on footbrake.


Well that sounds like a pretty insane thing to do. :D
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: hotel21 on 12 October 2010, 13:34:18
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Quote
What you doing, warping them? Or just wearing away?


TBH, I've founf the genuine GM ones pretty indestructable, though after a spanking, I also shift to neutral and put handbrake on, rather than sit on footbrake.


Well that sounds like a pretty insane thing to do. :D

If you have been giving the brakes a really good licking to the extent that the discs and pads are really hot then, if you sit with your foot on the footbrakem the pads are (obviously) presing on the face of the disc.

If you are stopped for a few minutes like this then the other 80-odd percent of the disc cools disproportioantely to the area covered by the pad, caliper etc and thus a hot spot is created.

Do this a few times and it is perfectly feasable to warp oterwise good discs.

And cook pads.....
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: markm730 on 12 October 2010, 13:55:30
don't know if your interested or not...
just replaced the front discs and pads on mine and got them from 'Brakes International' at Rochdale. they have a decent website that does mail order aswel for those not in the collection / over the counter area, cheaper than GM parts if cost is an issue and last a good while aswel. the last set i replaced lasted 5years with several european trips on that.
cheers  :y
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: Dave Elite on 12 October 2010, 14:38:00
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Quote
Quote
What you doing, warping them? Or just wearing away?


TBH, I've founf the genuine GM ones pretty indestructable, though after a spanking, I also shift to neutral and put handbrake on, rather than sit on footbrake.


Well that sounds like a pretty insane thing to do. :D

If you have been giving the brakes a really good licking to the extent that the discs and pads are really hot then, if you sit with your foot on the footbrakem the pads are (obviously) presing on the face of the disc.

If you are stopped for a few minutes like this then the other 80-odd percent of the disc cools disproportioantely to the area covered by the pad, caliper etc and thus a hot spot is created.

Do this a few times and it is perfectly feasable to warp oterwise good discs.

And cook pads.....
Ha ha, I thought he meant to help him slow down!! ;D
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: aaronjb on 12 October 2010, 14:51:55
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Ha ha, I thought he meant to help him slow down!! ;D
;D ;D ;D that would be rather ...  :o :o
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: Andy B on 12 October 2010, 16:11:50
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don't know if your interested or not...
just replaced the front discs and pads on mine and got them from 'Brakes International' at Rochdale.  ....issue and last a good while aswel. the last set i replaced lasted 5years with several european trips on that.
cheers  :y

The discs bought for my Senator from there were cr4p. They ran out of true within about 3/4000 miles. Needless to say they weren't interested when I complained ..... I'd fitted them wrong apparently >:(
Bit the bullet & bought Vauxhall discs (in the time before ABS had TC card  :() and had no further problems.
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: Entwood on 12 October 2010, 17:32:12
"Proper" information on brakes, how they work, and how to look after them ....  well worth a read .. especialy the bit about "warped" brakes ....

:)  :)

http://www.powerbrake.co.za/tech_info/tech.htm
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: TheBoy on 12 October 2010, 19:24:38
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Quote
Quote
Quote
What you doing, warping them? Or just wearing away?


TBH, I've founf the genuine GM ones pretty indestructable, though after a spanking, I also shift to neutral and put handbrake on, rather than sit on footbrake.


Well that sounds like a pretty insane thing to do. :D

If you have been giving the brakes a really good licking to the extent that the discs and pads are really hot then, if you sit with your foot on the footbrakem the pads are (obviously) presing on the face of the disc.

If you are stopped for a few minutes like this then the other 80-odd percent of the disc cools disproportioantely to the area covered by the pad, caliper etc and thus a hot spot is created.

Do this a few times and it is perfectly feasable to warp oterwise good discs.

And cook pads.....
Ha ha, I thought he meant to help him slow down!! ;D
I think the handbrakes on both my Omegas wouldn't slow a pushbike down, useless bloody things ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: need new front discs again
Post by: hotel21 on 12 October 2010, 23:48:55
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
What you doing, warping them? Or just wearing away?


TBH, I've founf the genuine GM ones pretty indestructable, though after a spanking, I also shift to neutral and put handbrake on, rather than sit on footbrake.


Well that sounds like a pretty insane thing to do. :D

If you have been giving the brakes a really good licking to the extent that the discs and pads are really hot then, if you sit with your foot on the footbrakem the pads are (obviously) presing on the face of the disc.

If you are stopped for a few minutes like this then the other 80-odd percent of the disc cools disproportioantely to the area covered by the pad, caliper etc and thus a hot spot is created.

Do this a few times and it is perfectly feasable to warp oterwise good discs.

And cook pads.....
Ha ha, I thought he meant to help him slow down!! ;D
I think the handbrakes on both my Omegas wouldn't slow a pushbike down, useless bloody things ;D ;D ;D

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Ha ha, I thought he meant to help him slow down!!

Aye.  Right.....   :P

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I think the handbrakes on both my Omegas wouldn't slow a pushbike down, useless bloody things ;D ;D ;D

Quite correct.  They are parking brakes, not handbrakes.   i.e. apply whilst stopped, not as an alternate means to retard the vehicle whilst at speed.....  ::)  ::)  ::)

That said, always worth applying the hand/parking brake regularly, sometimes whilst carrying a few miles per hour, to remove rust.  Use it or loose it.....  ;)