Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Vamps on 03 November 2010, 22:25:40

Title: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 03 November 2010, 22:25:40
Key in or out, engine on or off, if I push the button down on the front door it WILL NOT pull up again, you have to press the button on the key, even if driving.... :o :o
This has nothing to do with the air bag ecu, it is not mechanical, it IS electrical, there are no codes shown and I was told that there is not a 'reset' procedure for the Omega, any ideas.......

Auto electrician said it would be an expensive process to do further investigation.... ::)

You can pull up the back door buttons....
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Brikhead on 03 November 2010, 22:44:08
Try swapping the door pin switches over, from front to back... you never know!
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 03 November 2010, 23:25:00
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Try swapping the door pin switches over, from front to back... you never know!

It's electrical..........
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: RobG on 03 November 2010, 23:30:10
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Try swapping the door pin switches over, from front to back... you never know!

It's electrical..........
How can it be electrical if it works OK with the fob :-?
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Andy B on 03 November 2010, 23:32:43
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Key in or out, engine on or off, if I push the button down on the front door it WILL NOT pull up again, you have to press the button on the key, even if driving.... :o :o
This has nothing to do with the air bag ecu, it is not mechanical, it IS electrical, there are no codes shown and I was told that there is not a 'reset' procedure for the Omega, any ideas.......

Auto electrician said it would be an expensive process to do further investigation.... ::)

You can pull up the back door buttons....

I'd try another central locking motor first if it's dead locking instead of just locking.  :-/
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Andy B on 03 November 2010, 23:35:00
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Try swapping the door pin switches over, from front to back... you never know!

It's electrical..........
How can it be electrical if it works OK with the fob :-?

it's deadlocking .... you can't pull the button up ..... instead of the first stage lock and the fob is doing as it normally does when the whole car is dead locked and unlocks it.
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 04 November 2010, 00:04:32
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Try swapping the door pin switches over, from front to back... you never know!

It's electrical..........
How can it be electrical if it works OK with the fob :-?

Because physically you can not pull up the button, click open on the key and it opens, the fob is an electrical signal..........
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 04 November 2010, 22:54:46
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Try swapping the door pin switches over, from front to back... you never know!

It's electrical..........
How can it be electrical if it works OK with the fob :-?

Cos the fob is electrical...... there is no mechanical reason, ie not stuck, there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... is there a 'Reset' ...of the whole locking system..? that or i am just going to remove the front buttons to avoid accidental activation then posing with an arm out of the window... ::) ::)
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Andy B on 04 November 2010, 23:07:40
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.... there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... .....

I think that it could very well be a solenoid/motor fault. What happens to the lock on that door when you press the fob once ie just lock the car? Is it just locking or is it deadlocking? I suspect it's deadlocking ........  :-/
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 04 November 2010, 23:18:32
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.... there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... .....

I think that it could very well be a solenoid/motor fault. What happens to the lock on that door when you press the fob once ie just lock the car? Is it just locking or is it deadlocking? I suspect it's deadlocking ........  :-/

Forget the fob, when I push the button down it 'deadlocks' you can not pull up the button, only the key will release it, either by pressing the open button or putting it in the door and mechanically unlocking the door.....
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Andy B on 04 November 2010, 23:23:45
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.... there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... .....

I think that it could very well be a solenoid/motor fault. What happens to the lock on that door when you press the fob once ie just lock the car? Is it just locking or is it deadlocking? I suspect it's deadlocking ........  :-/

Forget the fob, when I push the button down it 'deadlocks' you can not pull up the button, only the key will release it, either by pressing the open button or putting it in the door and mechanically unlocking the door.....


I understand what you're saying. But if your door deadlocks on the first press of the fob you might be able to prove that the fault lies in the solenoid/motor itself.
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 04 November 2010, 23:27:26
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.... there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... .....

I think that it could very well be a solenoid/motor fault. What happens to the lock on that door when you press the fob once ie just lock the car? Is it just locking or is it deadlocking? I suspect it's deadlocking ........  :-/

Forget the fob, when I push the button down it 'deadlocks' you can not pull up the button, only the key will release it, either by pressing the open button or putting it in the door and mechanically unlocking the door.....


I understand what you're saying. But if your door deadlocks on the first press of the fob you might be able to prove that the fault lies in the solenoid/motor itself.

Nothing to do with the fob, press the door button and it goes to deadlock, even if driving the car, and you can not pull the button back up, you really can't.....
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: RobG on 04 November 2010, 23:28:00
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.... there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... .....

I think that it could very well be a solenoid/motor fault. What happens to the lock on that door when you press the fob once ie just lock the car? Is it just locking or is it deadlocking? I suspect it's deadlocking ........  :-/

Forget the fob, when I push the button down it 'deadlocks' you can not pull up the button, only the key will release it, either by pressing the open button or putting it in the door and mechanically unlocking the door.....


I understand what you're saying. But if your door deadlocks on the first press of the fob you might be able to prove that the fault lies in the solenoid/motor itself.
With the key in door are you having to use excessive force to unlock :question
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Entwood on 04 November 2010, 23:30:29
but the fob "talks" to the solenoid .. and its obvious the button isn't....

As you lift the button it SHOULD send the same signal to the solenoid that the fob does ....  it isn't....  so take the door card off and check where the button wiring goes to ....   :)
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 04 November 2010, 23:31:17
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.... there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... .....

I think that it could very well be a solenoid/motor fault. What happens to the lock on that door when you press the fob once ie just lock the car? Is it just locking or is it deadlocking? I suspect it's deadlocking ........  :-/

Forget the fob, when I push the button down it 'deadlocks' you can not pull up the button, only the key will release it, either by pressing the open button or putting it in the door and mechanically unlocking the door.....


I understand what you're saying. But if your door deadlocks on the first press of the fob you might be able to prove that the fault lies in the solenoid/motor itself.
With the key in door are you having to use excessive force to unlock :question

Nope, this is an electrical problem, something working backwards, how do we reset the doors? 
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Entwood on 04 November 2010, 23:33:49
The button is NOT a lever .. it is a switch .. it sends a signal to the solenoid .. yours is sending the LOCK signal .. but NOT the UNLOCK .. so check the button out !!!
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Andy B on 04 November 2010, 23:35:25
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.... there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... .....

I think that it could very well be a solenoid/motor fault. What happens to the lock on that door when you press the fob once ie just lock the car? Is it just locking or is it deadlocking? I suspect it's deadlocking ........  :-/

Forget the fob, when I push the button down it 'deadlocks' you can not pull up the button, only the key will release it, either by pressing the open button or putting it in the door and mechanically unlocking the door.....


I understand what you're saying. But if your door deadlocks on the first press of the fob you might be able to prove that the fault lies in the solenoid/motor itself.
With the key in door are you having to use excessive force to unlock :question

Nope, this is an electrical problem, something working backwards, how do we reset the doors? 

 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: RobG on 04 November 2010, 23:37:10
Nope, this is an electrical problem, something working backwards, how do we reset the doors? 

Unplug the C/L ecu then re-connect :-/
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 04 November 2010, 23:39:51
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Nope, this is an electrical problem, something working backwards, how do we reset the doors? 

Unplug the C/L ecu then re-connect :-/

worth a try, where is this...?
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 04 November 2010, 23:40:25
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.... there is no solenoid fault, it is something that tells it to deadlock when pushing the button..... .....

I think that it could very well be a solenoid/motor fault. What happens to the lock on that door when you press the fob once ie just lock the car? Is it just locking or is it deadlocking? I suspect it's deadlocking ........  :-/

Forget the fob, when I push the button down it 'deadlocks' you can not pull up the button, only the key will release it, either by pressing the open button or putting it in the door and mechanically unlocking the door.....


I understand what you're saying. But if your door deadlocks on the first press of the fob you might be able to prove that the fault lies in the solenoid/motor itself.
With the key in door are you having to use excessive force to unlock :question

Nope, this is an electrical problem, something working backwards, how do we reset the doors? 

 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

eh???
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: RobG on 04 November 2010, 23:42:49
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Nope, this is an electrical problem, something working backwards, how do we reset the doors? 

Unplug the C/L ecu then re-connect :-/

worth a try, where is this...?
Behind driver`s kick panel
http://images.omegaowners.com/images/guides/facelift_bootmod/IMG_2050.jpg
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 November 2010, 00:23:19
The driver's side manual locking button is both a switch and a mechanical connection to driver's side locking motor.

The button is directly connected to the lock mechanism itself and thus to the central locking motor.

The central locking motor contains a switch which detects the position of the locking mechanism. If this switch detects the mechanism being manually moved, it will also operate all 4 motors  via the alarm / central locking ECU so the rest of the doors follow the position of the driver's door. The driver's side locking motor will also operate although not strictly necessary.

The only way the doors can be deadlocked is by the central locking motor. This cannot happen mechanically alone.

The central locking motor has 3 positions in contrast to the locking mechanism which has two: Fully upwards, it moves the locking mechanism into the "unlocked" position. In the central position, the mechanism can be manually moved between locked and unlocked. In the bottom position, it moves the mechanism into the locked position. If it remains in this position the door cannot manually be unlocked and is deadlocked.

Normally, the central locking motor moves into the central position after locking or unlocking the car so manual operation is possible, except if the car is deadlocked where it remains in the bottom position.

So, your driver's door lock is operated manually, the switch senses this and operates the central locking motors. In order to lock the door the central locking motor is moved into the deadlocked position, and then back into the central position which allows further manual operation of the lock. Except manual operation of the lock is not possible, which means the motor remained in the deadlocked position.

So yes, you're right in that the problem is electrical because this is the only way the door can deadlock.

Having said that, it's worth sitting in the car and trying locking it with the keyfob. If my theory is right this will also deadlock it on the first press.

I suspect your problem is in the switch that is used to centralise the position of the central locking motor.

Kevin
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Andy B on 05 November 2010, 00:49:02
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......
 If my theory is right this will also deadlock it on the first press.......

Which is what I was trying to get Mike to do ...... but apparently it's an electrical problem & nothing to do with the fob ......  :-?
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 05 November 2010, 22:46:25
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The driver's side manual locking button is both a switch and a mechanical connection to driver's side locking motor.

The button is directly connected to the lock mechanism itself and thus to the central locking motor.

The central locking motor contains a switch which detects the position of the locking mechanism. If this switch detects the mechanism being manually moved, it will also operate all 4 motors  via the alarm / central locking ECU so the rest of the doors follow the position of the driver's door. The driver's side locking motor will also operate although not strictly necessary.

The only way the doors can be deadlocked is by the central locking motor. This cannot happen mechanically alone.

The central locking motor has 3 positions in contrast to the locking mechanism which has two: Fully upwards, it moves the locking mechanism into the "unlocked" position. In the central position, the mechanism can be manually moved between locked and unlocked. In the bottom position, it moves the mechanism into the locked position. If it remains in this position the door cannot manually be unlocked and is deadlocked.

Normally, the central locking motor moves into the central position after locking or unlocking the car so manual operation is possible, except if the car is deadlocked where it remains in the bottom position.

So, your driver's door lock is operated manually, the switch senses this and operates the central locking motors. In order to lock the door the central locking motor is moved into the deadlocked position, and then back into the central position which allows further manual operation of the lock. Except manual operation of the lock is not possible, which means the motor remained in the deadlocked position.

So yes, you're right in that the problem is electrical because this is the only way the door can deadlock.

Having said that, it's worth sitting in the car and trying locking it with the keyfob. If my theory is right this will also deadlock it on the first press.
I suspect your problem is in the switch that is used to centralise the position of the central locking motor.

Kevin

Car only locks the car on the first push of the fob button, deadlocking on the second push, you can here it..... :)
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 05 November 2010, 22:47:59
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......
 If my theory is right this will also deadlock it on the first press.......

Which is what I was trying to get Mike to do ...... but apparently it's an electrical problem & nothing to do with the fob ......  :-?

Sorry Andy, but I can not see how it can have anything to do with the fob, need to explore this more I think..... ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 November 2010, 22:57:47
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Car only locks the car on the first push of the fob button, deadlocking on the second push, you can here it..... :)

Yes, if it's working properly. But yours has a fault.

I (and Andy B) am trying to establish if yours deadlocks on the first press of the fob with the current fault, as this will prove it's the locking motor.

Kevin
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Digikiller on 05 November 2010, 23:02:36
Turn the ignition on with the keyfob, hit either the lock button then the unlock button, this resets the central locking. Remove the key and try it out of the car, not sayin it goin to fix it but no harm in trying. hope it works, at least then someone will have luck with an Omega!!! :-/
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 05 November 2010, 23:04:33
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Car only locks the car on the first push of the fob button, deadlocking on the second push, you can here it..... :)

Yes, if it's working properly. But yours has a fault.

I (and Andy B) am trying to establish if yours deadlocks on the first press of the fob with the current fault, as this will prove it's the locking motor.

Kevin

Cheers... :y

Fob seems to be fine, first push locks the door, second deadlocks it, you can hear the extra movement in the lock...I have not tried this with the key in the lock yet though...... :-/
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Digikiller on 05 November 2010, 23:05:08
 ::)i meant to say make sure when ur doin the procedure make sure the doors are closed (and ur in it of course) and its lock 1st then unlock.
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 05 November 2010, 23:08:11
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::)i meant to say make sure when you are doin the procedure make sure the doors are closed (and you are in it of course) and its lock 1st then unlock.

Cheers, worth a try.... :y
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 06 November 2010, 20:30:44
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::)i meant to say make sure when you are doin the procedure make sure the doors are closed (and you are in it of course) and its lock 1st then unlock.

Key fob will not lock the car with the ignition switched on.......... so could not use this process to reset.. :(
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 06 November 2010, 20:32:29
Double checked that the key fob locks and then deadlocks in two movements, it does.... ::) ::)

Key will neither lock or unlock the door mechanically, key simply will not move in any direction..???

Fob works fine though.....
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 07 November 2010, 20:13:02
Tried it again today with the original key, rather than the replacement and still no movement, key will not turn to either lock or unlock the car........ :(

My worry is if the fob were to fail I could not get in the car..... :'(

Where do I go next.....??
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 November 2010, 20:15:41
Ahh, starting to sound to me like the lock barrel in the door has siezed up.

Is it worth taking it out , stripping it down, lubricating and removing any burrs on the levers? Not sure how. Never had one apart before.

Kevin
Title: Re: Front doors deadlocking.....
Post by: Vamps on 07 November 2010, 20:22:09
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Ahh, starting to sound to me like the lock barrel in the door has siezed up.
Is it worth taking it out , stripping it down, lubricating and removing any burrs on the levers? Not sure how. Never had one apart before.

Kevin

Do you think this cause the button problem Kevin? I have stripped the door to sort the locks twice on a pre-facelift.....Or suss out a local auto locksmith.... :)