Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Midnight Mower on 11 October 2010, 22:45:40

Title: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Midnight Mower on 11 October 2010, 22:45:40
Hi all back after some years.

have Omega-B auto 2.5 1999 with considerable coolant leak

I have replaced the seals on the coolant bridge but the coolant spurts to rear from below the shelf supporting the dist. on lhs (passenger)

There are 2 metal pipe here above the bellhousing which go between the cylinder heads to the oil cooler? but don't appear to be culprit.  This is well below heater control valve and heater hoses, which are dry

Because of its location beside the bulge in the bulkhead for the pollen filter, it is nearly impossible to access.

I have pressurised the system at abt 2 bar and apparently can stop the leak with my finger pressed on a pipe or something.
It is a small single jet of water

Any suggestion?
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 October 2010, 23:37:01
The coolant transfer pipe (from the bottom radiator hose) enters the block down there and has an O ring seal which might have failed, I suppose.

It might be worth removing the wiper mechanism and all the hoses between the coolant bridge, HBV and heater matrix for a proper inspection.

Kevin
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Midnight Mower on 12 October 2010, 00:09:47
Hi Kevin

Thanks for the suggestion
I have already taken these off to get behind the engine

Do you know where I can obtain a detailed view of the rear of the engine without the hindrance of the wiring harnesses?

cheers
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Elite Pete on 12 October 2010, 08:10:53
There's a couple of core plugs behind the dis pack.
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Elite Pete on 12 October 2010, 08:12:43
Quote
There's a couple of core plugs behind the dis pack.
Forget that, i've just read your post completely about the hose ::)
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Teebee on 12 October 2010, 09:23:01
Quote
Do you know where I can obtain a detailed view of the rear of the engine without the hindrance of the wiring harnesses?
While not ideal (and for the Catera) I find that GMPartsGiant (http://www.gmpartsgiant.com/Page_Product/PartDetail.aspx?modelYear=2001&model=Catera&make=Cadillac&catalogCode=65V&modelCode=6VR69&seriesCode=6VR&bodyStyleCode=69&engineCode=L81&transCode=ML4&majorIndexID=01&isBigPicture=False&isDisplay=False&minorIndexID=OV0100201) has some useful diagrams.
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 October 2010, 11:04:44
Don't know whether these are any help:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1181719948

The only pipes are the metal transfer pipe and the rubber hoses that come off the coolant bridge to the HBV and throttle body.

Could be a core plug, as said. head gaskets have also been known to leak coolant.

If you can put your finger on something and stop the flow is it possible from the pictures to work out what you've got your finger on? :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Midnight Mower on 12 October 2010, 12:23:46
Many Thanks TeeBee

the GMPartsGiant looks a very useful website.
I can see that the pipes I suspected carry the oil to the oil cooler between the cylinders.
I shall make some further investigations an reassemble the inlet manifold

While searching I noticed that the seals for the air breather which sits n the plenium are available from GMPartsGiant, but my GM  dealer tells me that they are not available separately here. Does anyone know if it is possible to obtain them in UK? The most useful would be the large seal which plugs the circular opening underneath.
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Teebee on 12 October 2010, 13:16:51
Re-reading the post Kevin has a point, if you can put your finger on the leak surely you can work out if it's a rubber hose leaking or a metal pipe?

If it's rubber just pull them all off and inspect them off the car.
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Midnight Mower on 12 October 2010, 22:20:42
A sad outcome. I managed at last to look at the rear of the engine with a small mirror. Under a pressure of 2 bar coolant is spurting out between the cylinder head & crank case.  This does explain why I have had 2 dises fail in the last 5 years because of corrosion damage.  Probably this weakness has existed for many years.  There is no sign of coolant in the engine oil which is something to be thankful

I am putting it all back together and will try some K Seal.
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 October 2010, 23:01:33
Quote
A sad outcome. I managed at last to look at the rear of the engine with a small mirror. Under a pressure of 2 bar coolant is spurting out between the cylinder head & crank case.  This does explain why I have had 2 dises fail in the last 5 years because of corrosion damage.  Probably this weakness has existed for many years.  There is no sign of coolant in the engine oil which is something to be thankful

I am putting it all back together and will try some K Seal.

Oh, dear. :(

On other cars where this has happened the head gaskets have turned out to be completely falling apart so I would advise biting the bullet and changing the gaskets, TBH. :-/ Anything less will be a very temporary solution, IMHO.

Kevin
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2010, 07:31:03
Headgasket change is not to hard and can be completed quite cheaply
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: PhilRich on 13 October 2010, 08:24:46
I would strongly recommend you do NOT use K-Seal or any other 'easy fix'! :o
I resorted to using it out of desperation (& lack of funds) on my 2.2 and for 1 week it appeared to have worked, until the gasket gave way in spectacular style! When I stripped the head, the K-Seal had bunged up almost every waterway almost completely! It almost cost me a new motor!!! and I am still finding remnants of it even after 3 coolant changes & thorough flushes! Bite the bullet & do the job right first time is my advice :y
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: tunnie on 13 October 2010, 09:15:01
K-Seal is awful stuff, as Phil says don't use it! It will cause all kinds of cooling issues, had the dis-pleasure of working on a car that had K Seal used
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Midnight Mower on 17 October 2010, 14:12:31
Many thanks for all the comments.

I am not over keen to use K-seal, and do not usually feel daunted by tackling long or difficult jobs but removing the cylinder head from at least 1 side is daunting, although Marks DTM Calib says its not difficult. Can anyone tell me how long it is likely to take?  I have the TIS 2000 information system but find it uninformative and near useless.

If I did remove the offending cylinder head, I think I should check that all the valves make good seals and the flatness of the cylinder head.  Perhaps I should have this done by a specialist company? Should I take the rhs off also and check that? It won’t double the job will it?

The removal of the l h cylinder head according to my Haynes manual involves
Removal of the
 timing belt, assoc tensioner & its rear cover
 coolant pump
disconnection for injector harness & ecu?
Perhaps someone can educate me as to what is actually necessary

Is the use use of K-seal such a mistake if it will delay overhauling my engine which has only done 112 000 miles in 10 years?

K-Seal is promoted as an engineered solution to leaks not a gooy mess
It’s a dilemma!

Paul :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Midnight Mower on 22 October 2010, 22:02:33
After considerable pondering, I've taken the plunge and added K-seal together with changing the engine over to the red antifreeze.

My local Vauxhall independent specialist has advised my that the cost to replace the head gasket including pressure test & skim is over £600 and rightly queried whether it was worth spending this on an 1999 V6 estate.  He added that he did not consider that the addition of K-seal would make the work on the engine more difficult.

The initial response is that the leak has stopped.  I need to run it on some local calls to observe the ongoing effect.

Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: midnightmower on 25 October 2010, 21:56:06
Coolant leak has stopped!  :)

I have taken a trip to the Classic Car Restoration show at Stoneleigh, some 120 miles return trip, without incident.  Replacing the spark plugs, which I did at the same time as the other repairs, appears to have improved the efficiency of the engine. I also remove a small hose clip lodge in front of no 5 cylinder, which must have disrupted the intake of fuel mixture.   I was driving with a light touch and was concerned to find that the engine was not reaching its normal temp, stick at about 92.5C. The ambient temp was about 12C.  When worked somewhat harder it reached 95C. The output of the heater seemed to be ok.
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Jimbob on 26 October 2010, 08:44:48
good luck.

After I used leak stopper, I found, even once removed from the system I had to flush the heater matrix every few months to get any kind of heat.
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: midnightmower on 21 November 2010, 19:12:42

Good News http://images.omegaowners.com/forum/yabbfiles250/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif
I have driven my car nearly 400 miles without the leak and no observed side effects. 
So good so far! http://images.omegaowners.com/forum/yabbfiles250/Templates/Forum/default/thumbsup.gif
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Kneepad on 21 November 2010, 20:57:40


A result then, well done. You're a brave man to go against all the advice re K-seal. Sincerely hope it lasts.   :y
Title: Re: Coolant spurt lhs rear below coolant bridge/ dist
Post by: Andy H on 21 November 2010, 21:45:36
The head gasket on my 1994 2.5 V6 failed in the same place.

I don't think I would class changing the head gaskets as 'easy'. Not rocket science but you do need to be capable of fitting and timing a cam belt.

My back wouldn't have survived lifting the heads in situ and I already had an engine stand and hoist so I lifted the engine out.

The picture below is of water weeping through the back of the head gasket with a pressure test on the cooling system.
(http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~aholter/DSCF0789.jpg)