Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: V6 CDX-er on 03 January 2011, 12:08:50

Title: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 03 January 2011, 12:08:50
Finishing off changing my cambelt and I've come across a little problem.

Last night I was under the car holding the cambelt in place at the crank while my wife thread it up and across the four banks, (my 'wedge' won't hold it in place and it was easier if two of us did the job).

when we came to fitting the belt to banks 3 & 4, we couldn't get it over the camshaft pulleys, as it seems like the belt is about half a tooth out.

The pics below should explain things better;

Banks 1 & 2 on ok and lined up;

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13143.jpg)

But banks 3 & 4 a little out. Even if we manage to get the teeth on at the 12 o clock position, we cant get them on at the 3 o clock position on camshaft no;4

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13144.jpg)

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13145.jpg)

To try and help we have removed the tensioner / roller that is located to the right of the water pump;

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13146.jpg)



I am wondering if storing the new cambelt out in a freezing cold garage for several weeks has caused the cambelt to shrink a little, (it came as part of a kit from my local VX main dealer)?

Would it be a good or a bad idea to soak the cambelt in a bucket of hot water for a few minutes in order to make it a little more plyable and stretchy? Would this weaken the belt or cause any other damage?

Or do you chaps have any other suggestions?


In advance, many thanks  :y :
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: mrjimbo on 03 January 2011, 12:15:43
Are you sure you have fully slackened the tensioner between the two banks ?
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Andy H on 03 January 2011, 12:17:55
I would attach the crank locking tool to the crank and wind the crank back 1/2 a tooth to allow the belt to slip on.

I am assuming that you have the full cam timing kit. If you haven't you can safely wind the crank back 60 degrees if you want using an adjustable spanner on the crank pulley.
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 03 January 2011, 12:19:06
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Are you sure you have fully slackened the tensioner between the two banks ?


Am I sure......  er...... no, I'm not   :-[  Bloody good idea. Thank you  :)

I just whacked it on along with the new tensioner backing plate.

if it isn't this, are there any other things it could be?
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 03 January 2011, 12:32:37
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I would attach the crank locking tool to the crank and wind the crank back 1/2 a tooth to allow the belt to slip on.

I am assuming that you have the full cam timing kit. If you haven't you can safely wind the crank back 60 degrees if you want using an adjustable spanner on the crank pulley.


That's not a bad suggestion either Andy. Cheers  :y

Would that knock the timing out though?
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: JasonH on 03 January 2011, 12:40:43
Mine was like this. You definitely need the pulley off at the bottom right.

Just pull it tight and push it on, after some tugging it just slipped on. Then you can refit the pulley.
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 13:06:08
you are putting the belt on in an anticlockwise direction? So crank - idler - cam4 - cam3 - idler - cam2 - cam1 - tensioner
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 03 January 2011, 13:33:51
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you are putting the belt on in an anticlockwise direction? So crank - idler - cam4 - cam3 - idler - cam2 - cam1 - tensioner


No. Clockwise.

Crank, idler / roller, 1 & 2, idler / roller, 3 & 4, then I'll fit the final idler / roller and loop it around that.

Should I be putting it on anti-clockwise?
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Welung666 on 03 January 2011, 15:15:27
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you are putting the belt on in an anticlockwise direction? So crank - idler - cam4 - cam3 - idler - cam2 - cam1 - tensioner


No. Clockwise.

Crank, idler / roller, 1 & 2, idler / roller, 3 & 4, then I'll fit the final idler / roller and loop it around that.

Should I be putting it on anti-clockwise?

Yes.
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: rob in gib on 03 January 2011, 16:01:56
It might be worth checking that the new tensioner backing plate is the same as the last one a mate of mine bought was slightly different
so we swaped over the tensioner and rollers and all was fine

worth a check :y
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Welung666 on 03 January 2011, 16:21:26
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It might be worth checking that the new tensioner backing plate is the same as the last one a mate of mine bought was slightly different
so we swaped over the tensioner and rollers and all was fine

worth a check :y

Good point R :y there are 2 types on tensioner plates for the earlier cars with about 5mm difference on the bolt centres. Have a quick measure :y
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 03 January 2011, 20:04:56
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It might be worth checking that the new tensioner backing plate is the same as the last one a mate of mine bought was slightly different
so we swaped over the tensioner and rollers and all was fine

worth a check :y

Good point R :y there are 2 types on tensioner plates for the earlier cars with about 5mm difference on the bolt centres. Have a quick measure :y


It makes mention of this on the cambelt change DVD. By eye they looked exactly the same, were ordered via VX main dealer, (although that not guarantee that the parts are correct), and both items had matching numbers stamped on them.

On the flip side, 5mm would explain it being half a tooth out?

Is it possible for the parts to be different, but with the same numbers stamped on them?
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Welung666 on 03 January 2011, 20:13:18
No they are different part numbers. Just run a tape measure between the bolt centres on the new and old casting :y
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Elite Pete on 03 January 2011, 20:20:53
It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Andy B on 03 January 2011, 20:22:54
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It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right

or the belt has been fitted clockwise  ;)
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: feeutfo on 03 January 2011, 20:50:37
As usual, i do it differant again, not seen the dvd.

But the belt on cam wheel 4 needs pulling tight so the teeth "clip in", or its slipped back a bit to take the pics, then fit round the crank wheel at the bottom and wedge it in, then with bolt removed from the lower idler place the idler in place with belt sat within the raised edge of the idler, THEN fit the bolt in the idler... No?

But yes. Make sure all the idlers/tensioner are backed off. Theres a Dozen ways of doing it, but i am sure there is a recognisesd "easiest way" as described.
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 03 January 2011, 21:01:36
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It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right

or the belt has been fitted clockwise  ;)

The belt was fitted clockwise.
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Andy B on 03 January 2011, 21:03:36
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It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right

or the belt has been fitted clockwise  ;)

The belt was fitted clockwise.

which is my point. Fit it t'other way. :y as described by The Boy/Jamie
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 January 2011, 21:23:35
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It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right


Agreed, it needs to be in the 12 Oclock position
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 January 2011, 21:24:42
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It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right

or the belt has been fitted clockwise  ;)

The belt was fitted clockwise.

which is my point. Fit it t'other way. :y as described by The Boy/Jamie

It wont help as there is not enough slack to work with due to the top idler being set wrong, the same problem will occur but on the no1 cam
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Andy B on 03 January 2011, 21:28:45
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It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right

or the belt has been fitted clockwise  ;)

The belt was fitted clockwise.

which is my point. Fit it t'other way. :y as described by The Boy/Jamie

It wont help as there is not enough slack to work with due to the top idler being set wrong, the same problem will occur but on the no1 cam

fair point. I can only do, not advise.  ;D ;D ;D Besides, I've only done mine twice and stood over a couple of shoulders while they've been done, unlike you.  :y :y :y
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 03 January 2011, 21:29:52
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Quote
It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right


Agreed, it needs to be in the 12 Oclock position


You have a PM
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 January 2011, 21:34:39
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Quote
Quote
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It looks like the top guide hasn't been set right

or the belt has been fitted clockwise  ;)

The belt was fitted clockwise.

which is my point. Fit it t'other way. :y as described by The Boy/Jamie

It wont help as there is not enough slack to work with due to the top idler being set wrong, the same problem will occur but on the no1 cam

fair point. I can only do, not advise.  ;D ;D ;D Besides, I've only done mine twice and stood over a couple of shoulders while they've been done, unlike you.  :y :y :y

Lol.

What happens is there is some slop in the cam locks, when you get a tight run between the banks due to the idler being wrongly set, it pulls cam 3 (or 2 if going anticlockwise) over slightly and makes it bloody hard to get on cam 4
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: Andy B on 03 January 2011, 21:38:22
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....
Lol.

What happens is there is some slop in the cam locks, when you get a tight run between the banks due to the idler being wrongly set, it pulls cam 3 (or 2 if going anticlockwise) over slightly and makes it bloody hard to get on cam 4

IIRC I put one of the eccentric idlers in last .....  :-/ when i last did mine.
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: harpersimon on 03 January 2011, 22:13:29
definately check the tensioner backing plates and roller spacers, when I did mine, there was a spacer not in place which effectively locked the tensioners from turning. making it impossible to crank over in the latter stages of replacment
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 04 January 2011, 11:15:48
All sorted now chaps  :y

Thanks all and a special thanks to Marks DTM for the quick advice over the phone last night  :y
Title: Re: Erm, is my cambelt too short?
Post by: feeutfo on 04 January 2011, 13:01:34
 :y