Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: sport on 08 January 2011, 10:29:12
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Hi has any one used the falken FK 452 tyres .I use goodyear eagle F1 at the moment, the falken are a bit cheaper ,is ther any differance in performance.
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I'll get my popcorn ready, and sit back....
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Hi has any one used the falken FK 452 tyres .I use goodyear eagle F1 at the moment, the falken are a bit cheaper ,is ther any differance in performance.
Yes mate have 'em on my 19"'s
Can't really complain about them - they have behaved very well so far (June 09) in wet and Dry.
I've never had Eagles so can't compare.
Are Falkens as good as the Zero Rossos or the Conti 3's I had on my Chocolate box MV6 wheels? (that's them in my avatar)
Not a snowballs :(
My main gripe about them is the lack of rim protection for such a low profile tyre. >:(
If you're on 15/16/17s I doubt this would be such a problem
Would I have Falkens again? Nope! ::)
Matthew
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To save digging up all the previous threads. In a nutshell, Any type of Falken is bad news on the Omega. They do not suit it and you will regret buying them. I have FK452s on my TVR and my Golf , both lighter cars, both are excellent. The Omega is heavier and they are horrible as a result.
I swapped mine for Conti SC-3's on the rear and Dunlop Sport Maxx on the front and am happy with both choices. Dunlops are cheaper than the Contis.
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I'll get my popcorn ready, and sit back....
;D ;D ;D :y
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either go wth f1 s again (if you are pleased with them) or
alternatives
bridgestone potenza adrenaline (summer tire)
bridgestone turanza(summer tire)
conti sc3 (summer tire)
dunlop sport max (summer tire)
toyo t1r (summer tire)
all are ok except the subject that they are summer tires..
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most tyres sold in this country are summer tyres, a very small minority bother with winter tyres
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most tyres sold in this country are summer tyres, a very small minority bother with winter tyres
northern hemisphere is in winter me thinks ;D :D :y
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most tyres sold in this country are summer tyres, a very small minority bother with winter tyres
northern hemisphere is in winter me thinks ;D :D :y
very true but the majority of the time in the UK the weather really doesn't warrant them and tbh cant imagine it does where you are ether ;D :y
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most tyres sold in this country are summer tyres, a very small minority bother with winter tyres
northern hemisphere is in winter me thinks ;D :D :y
very true but the majority of the time in the UK the weather really doesn't warrant them and tbh cant imagine it does where you are ether ;D :y
honestly speaking, it does.. and creates a real mess :-/ because local municipalities dont like expenses of salting and spending for the roads damaged after..
however, I always prefer winter tires even for cold/rainy days.. no surprises, they always stop..
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Falken 912 are an exceptionally quiet tyre....
... They are also dangerous on this car, especially from about 4k on. Avoid avoid avoid !
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most tyres sold in this country are summer tyres, a very small minority bother with winter tyres
northern hemisphere is in winter me thinks ;D :D :y
It would appear that our insurance companies do not like us using winter tyres in the winter....
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It would appear that our insurance companies do not like us using winter tyres in the winter....
That's just the numpties on the other end of the phone that don't know their a from their elbow :y
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It would appear that our insurance companies do not like us using winter tyres in the winter....
That's just the numpties on the other end of the phone that don't know their a from their elbow :y
Just like most call centres really......
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...
It would appear that our insurance companies do not like us using winter tyres in the winter....
That's just the numpties on the other end of the phone that don't know their a from their elbow :y
Just like most call centres really......
Correct :y :y
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Had the FK452 on an E39 540i Sport a few years ago, not a bad tyre and good road mannors regardless of the weather.
But saying that, I had the predecessor, the FK451 on my 380bhp 4x4 Cosworth and absolutely hammered them to bits on the Nurburgring - they only lasted about 20 laps and were brand new before going. BUT saying that, they were superb tyres - Just a shame they arn't made anymore :(
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
an opinion based on experience and two years of very expensive diagnosis including numerous full geo set ups, changing parts unnecessarily, only cured by kind members on here allowing me to swap wheels with other makes (Dunlops) fitted. And .... "* dedaah*" the car miraculously drove perfectly straight, even with worn out Dunlops.
Falkens bind with 5k tread left as they where dangerous, sports contact 3 fitted and the car is a delight to drive through out their life.
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
an opinion based on experience and two years of very expensive diagnosis including numerous full geo set ups, changing parts unnecessarily, only cured by kind members on here allowing me to swap wheels with other makes (Dunlops) fitted. And .... "* dedaah*" the car miraculously drove perfectly straight, even with worn out Dunlops.
Falkens bind with 5k tread left as they where dangerous, sports contact 3 fitted and the car is a delight to drive through out their life.
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
Are you sure about that ??? I thought I detected a moments hesitation ..... :)
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
an opinion based on experience and two years of very expensive diagnosis including numerous full geo set ups, changing parts unnecessarily, only cured by kind members on here allowing me to swap wheels with other makes (Dunlops) fitted. And .... "* dedaah*" the car miraculously drove perfectly straight, even with worn out Dunlops.
Falkens bind with 5k tread left as they where dangerous, sports contact 3 fitted and the car is a delight to drive through out their life.
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
I seem to recall you stuck an old set of Linlongs on, just to get shot of the ditchfinder Falkens?
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
an opinion based on experience and two years of very expensive diagnosis including numerous full geo set ups, changing parts unnecessarily, only cured by kind members on here allowing me to swap wheels with other makes (Dunlops) fitted. And .... "* dedaah*" the car miraculously drove perfectly straight, even with worn out Dunlops.
Falkens bind with 5k tread left as they where dangerous, sports contact 3 fitted and the car is a delight to drive through out their life.
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
I seem to recall you stuck an old set of Linlongs on, just to get shot of the ditchfinder Falkens?
Slingalongs where on the sport stars which came later, I'd rather them than the 912's.
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Slingalongs where on the sport stars which came later, I'd rather them than the 912's.
So to be clear you have driven 912s which are known to be rubbish and are then tarring the 452s with the same brush?
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Slingalongs where on the sport stars which came later, I'd rather them than the 912's.
So to be clear you have driven 912s which are known to be rubbish and are then tarring the 452s with the same brush?
Have had the previous 451(I think) and it's replacement 452, the 912 was the the worst of all!
So yes, not just Rubbish, SHITE!
Which bit of SHITE are we not getting? ( sound s a bit rude, my appologies, but really need to make the point)
Any more questions? ;)
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Oh I'm getting that you think they are shyte perfectly. I just don't agree. Its clear that anything I say is going to be slammed so I will not bother and so I will not reply again to this topic.
We agree to disagree and I will leave it there.
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Slingalongs where on the sport stars which came later, I'd rather them than the 912's.
So to be clear you have driven 912s which are known to be rubbish and are then tarring the 452s with the same brush?
Have had the previous 451(I think) and it's replacement 452, the 912 was the the worst of all!
So yes, not just Rubbish, SHITE!
Which bit of SHITE are we not getting? ( sound s a bit rude, my appologies, but really need to make the point)
Any more questions? ;)
I posted in another thread about the falken tyres and disagree with the remarks about how SHITE they are but it has been noted that this particular vehicle they do not suit, how are goodyears on these as have had these on previous cars and always been happy with them as well :)
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I must comment that at a recent visit to WIM I asked the fitter, not Tony, for a tyre recommendation, and he said, "...................
well I think you've guessed it. :y
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Oh I'm getting that you think they are shyte perfectly. I just don't agree. Its clear that anything I say is going to be slammed so I will not bother and so I will not reply again to this topic.
We agree to disagree and I will leave it there.
opinions do vary and i also got slammed in previous thread on these tyres, even though i've had them on my old 320+bhp m3, a 300+bhp 540 and fitted 912s with no probs to the partners old astra as i was so impressed by the performance on the other 2 cars, the m3 incidently was a fast road/ trackday car and stuck to the road and track like shit to a blanket and was only beaten lap time wise on a trackday last year by a similarly modded scooby on R888s and a audi r8(totally different league again) but obviously some of us newbies know nothing eh? ::)
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Oh I'm getting that you think they are shyte perfectly. I just don't agree. Its clear that anything I say is going to be slammed so I will not bother and so I will not reply again to this topic.
We agree to disagree and I will leave it there.
opinions do vary and i also got slammed in previous thread on these tyres, even though i've had them on my old 320+bhp m3, a 300+bhp 540 and fitted 912s with no probs to the partners old astra as i was so impressed by the performance on the other 2 cars, the m3 incidently was a fast road/ trackday car and stuck to the road and track like shit to a blanket and was only beaten lap time wise on a trackday last year by a similarly modded scooby on R888s and a audi r8(totally different league again) but obviously some of us newbies know nothing eh? ::)
I would suggest that tyres, like oil, is very much a personal thing and quite subjective and very much to an individuals taste and experiences.
Chrisgixer has obviously had a bad experience with one make of tyres whilst others are quite happy with them.
Ultimately, its down to personal preference as well as what you can afford.
Personally, I do not go past Goodyears when in a large heavy car like the Omega but I base that observation on many hundreds of thousands of miles in a professioanl capacity in a previous life as a traffic cop when Goodyears were fitted as standard on all the fleet vehicles.
I am now in the lucky financial position that I stick with what I like rather than go budget shopping and experiment to save a few quid.
Oh! And we were all newbies once upon a time so dont be put off by someone being more vocal than anyone else. ;)
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thanks you've put things into perspective and you do seem to get what you pay for with tyres and we've all experienced good and bad, thanks agian mark
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I think that whilst the Falkens, particularly the 452, work well on many cars, the 452 and the 912 appear to be less suitable on the Omega.
I have personally experienced chrisgixer's car on near new 912s (lethal) and 10 mins later on the same piece of road on SP9000 (worn, when SP9000 are known to tramline like a pig). The SP9000 were several magnitudes better - the car was normal. We put his 912s on my car, which became dangerous to drive. I have also driven that same car on budget LinLongs and SC3's - both fine. Those 912s simply do not work on the Omega imho. I believe chrisgixer got the manufacturer to examine them, but no fault found.
I have had the pleasure to drive lots of Omegas. I have had similar situations with members cars on 452s (and others). If unable to find a suspension/steering issue, we occasionally swap wheels with mine, sometimes that cures it (sometimes it doesn't - in which case I recommend WIM).
But these tyres may well work better on other cars. I wouldn't put P6000s on a skateboard, but will always shove them on our Rover as they work so well on that (shame no longer available).
*BUT* we all have different demands from our tyres. For me, excellent grip in wet or dry is more important than outright cost, durability, or snow. The next person may be more interested in cost and durability, as they make less demands on outright grip.
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Don't take my word for it, two very prominent members on here helped diagnose the problem by lending me their Dunlop shod wheels and the symptoms disapered as said.
Bigdods also took a very firm, and justified stance given his experience with them on other cars, that Falkens are good tyres.
...so here we have the problem they may well work on smaller front wheel drive cars? I suspect they do, along with pirelli p zero, I would not fit them to an omega either btw.
But my point really is what works on one car does not necessarily work on another, and certainly 3000 miles is not enough to experience the full range of issues to be encountered over a tyres life.
So for info expect ad follows...
4k miles vagueness creeps in
8k miles start looking for faults on the car
10 to 12 k having replaced and checked all relevant components on the car(see handling guide in faq) post up on here asking for help with straight-line handling issues such as constant correction at the steering wheel, random pulling and side movement giving a feeling of failed bushes loss of directional control, a built in speed limit of 50 on B roads as the car is impossible to keep put of the ditch or on your own side of the road at any higher speed.
They're fine once in a corner, although the 912 has the harder compound to be fair, it's the straight-line stability that is appaling after about 5k.
So, over 3 different falken models and over the entire life of those same 3 models backed up by others witnessing the symptoms on an omega elite and same symptoms on 2.5 CDX previosly on my pre forum days, I can say there is nothing subjective or otherwise to be considered, fit Falkens to an omega at your peril!
Must say I am intrigued to find out why Nd what cost me so much time and agro? Maybe they are suited to smaller front wheel drive cars as said? They would handel better with higher psi, something approaching 37 psi, as on the rear of her polo, and they would go straight but the ride was bloody in uncomfortable to say the least.
Should also mention, I too was very pleased with them once fitted, they are Sooo quiet and comfortable to begin with, but to end with, water balloons would be more stable!
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I took advice from others on here and ended up putting these on mine..
Kumho KU31 XT tyres (XT = Harder sidewalls)
I must admit it totally stopped the tram-lining and the grip in both wet and dry is excellent.. Also during the snow period the performed well and never got me stuck and the snow hardly got stuck in the treads.
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I took advice from others on here and ended up putting these on mine..
Kumho KU31 XT tyres (XT = Harder sidewalls)
I must admit it totally stopped the tram-lining and the grip in both wet and dry is excellent.. Also during the snow period the performed well and never got me stuck and the snow hardly got stuck in the treads.
I seriously considered those, but couldn't make the necessary compromise on the grip level, so had to pay a bit more for something else :'(
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Thanks for the replys also looking at the toyo tyres
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I've run Toyo's on the MR2 quite a bit - they have very soft sidewalls, which means I can't see them suiting the Omega somehow.. but I'm happy to be proven wrong :)
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Hi so which soft or hard wall tyres are more prone to tramlining
I had conties which i had tramlining swopped them for goodyear F1 no problems for the past 5,000 miles
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Hi so which soft or hard wall tyres are more prone to tramlining
I had conties which i had tramlining swopped them for goodyear F1 no problems for the past 5,000 miles
New tyres will always behave better than old tyres when it comes to tram lining. Maybe this catches people out? Needing new tyres due to tread depth and noticing the car handles poorly, then fit new tyres and suddenly the car handles better, therefor the new tyres MUST be better than the old ones, right?
Wrong! Been there and got that T shirt, made the same mistake. Experience finally taught me to take the worth of a tyre over it's entire life, how it behaves when new is very very different to how behaves worn out.
Typically, on the omega, tram lining will start to creep in from about 50% wear IME. Question is how badly they degrade.
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
My, my, I've got some saving to do!
Perhaps that's why I move sideways unexplainedly! :o
I will have to go for the part worns after all to say goodbye to the Falkens sooner rather than later. Still, will prompt the wheel refurb at the same time.
Bugger! >:(
Potenzas and Contis it is then!
Matthew
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
My, my, I've got some saving to do!
Perhaps that's why I move sideways unexplainedly! :o
I will have to go for the part worns after all to say goodbye to the Falkens sooner rather than later. Still, will prompt the wheel refurb at the same time.
Bugger! >:(
Potenzas and Contis it is then!
Matthew
that is my experience yes :'(. Worth checking bushes etc, but ime changing from Falkens improved the handling way over and above any failed bush.
Wish I new exactly what it is about these tyres that affects them so.... I guess the side Walls are over soft.....?
Speeking to Wim re BMW's run flats they talk of replacing them with normal tyres. Firstly to stop the wheels cracking :o and secondly to stop the tram lining. The theory being the side walls are so stiff they transmit every road imperfection through the steering.
So soft side walls are better if the opposite is true!?!?!? :-/ with that in mind I can only assume the Falkens go too far the other way and are too soft to give stability, hence the water balloon comparison earlier.
So is it safe to say the omega needs it's tyres in a certain range of sidewall stiffness to work? Falken sidewalls are exceptionally soft, and maybe thats what makes them so quiet with comfortable ride?
On the other hand Dunlops seem to give the most planted and sure footed directional feel I've ever encountered on an omega, ride is fine, but I think it's safe to say they are not known as quiet tyres.
So are we entering the world of the tyre maker? a world of continual compromise and the elusive best of both(all)worlds brake through, the perfect tyre, maximum grip v minimum wear. Quiet with compliant ride v straight line stability. Good wet grip v good dry grip....and then make it work on all cars front or rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive, big and heavy, light or small.
Bound to be a tyre that's a mare on the Omega, and one that works well. And I guess that must go for any vehicle.
The tyre tests don't really help past a certain point, unless the tyre is tested on at least a similarly sized same wheel drive car as our own, as the Falken proves, we're not necessarily going to get the same result as seen in the tests. :'(
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Ps, I'll stop short of mentioning that we have a perfect opportunity to gather tyre info on our own specific vehicle on a dedicated car forum. Gathering such info in a presentable manor is and would be a nightmare to implement.
However as said before, such info would help others to make an informed choice, and not make the very expensive mistake I did. :'(
Ok that's enough from me on this thread, hogging it a bit :-X. ;D
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
My, my, I've got some saving to do!
Perhaps that's why I move sideways unexplainedly! :o
I will have to go for the part worns after all to say goodbye to the Falkens sooner rather than later. Still, will prompt the wheel refurb at the same time.
Bugger! >:(
Potenzas and Contis it is then!
Matthew
that is my experience yes :'(. Worth checking bushes etc, but ime changing from Falkens improved the handling way over and above any failed bush.
Wish I new exactly what it is about these tyres that affects them so.... I guess the side Walls are over soft.....?
Speeking to Wim re BMW's run flats they talk of replacing them with normal tyres. Firstly to stop the wheels cracking :o and secondly to stop the tram lining. The theory being the side walls are so stiff they transmit every road imperfection through the steering.
So soft side walls are better if the opposite is true!?!?!? :-/ with that in mind I can only assume the Falkens go too far the other way and are too soft to give stability, hence the water balloon comparison earlier.
So is it safe to say the omega needs it's tyres in a certain range of sidewall stiffness to work? Falken sidewalls are exceptionally soft, and maybe thats what makes them so quiet with comfortable ride?
On the other hand Dunlops seem to give the most planted and sure footed directional feel I've ever encountered on an omega, ride is fine, but I think it's safe to say they are not known as quiet tyres.
So are we entering the world of the tyre maker? a world of continual compromise and the elusive best of both(all)worlds brake through, the perfect tyre, maximum grip v minimum wear. Quiet with compliant ride v straight line stability. Good wet grip v good dry grip....and then make it work on all cars front or rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive, big and heavy, light or small.
Bound to be a tyre that's a mare on the Omega, and one that works well. And I guess that must go for any vehicle.
The tyre tests don't really help past a certain point, unless the tyre is tested on at least a similarly sized same wheel drive car as our own, as the Falken proves, we're not going to get the same result as seen in the tests. :'(
Chris , I'm afraid I cant agree with that..I have never seen a tire finding place in top three drops to bottom..
yes.. tires change behavior with thread wear and time and temperature, but I dont believe the best tire for a fwd car is the worst for rwd.. over the years I have visited many tire test sites and concluded that good brands and models dont change place too much .. have you seen a continental or a potenza or an eagle f1 in the bottom..
these tires are used for cars which are extremely expensive and I dont think the factories just go and buy a set..
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
My, my, I've got some saving to do!
Perhaps that's why I move sideways unexplainedly! :o
I will have to go for the part worns after all to say goodbye to the Falkens sooner rather than later. Still, will prompt the wheel refurb at the same time.
Bugger! >:(
Potenzas and Contis it is then!
Matthew
that is my experience yes :'(. Worth checking bushes etc, but ime changing from Falkens improved the handling way over and above any failed bush.
Wish I new exactly what it is about these tyres that affects them so.... I guess the side Walls are over soft.....?
Speeking to Wim re BMW's run flats they talk of replacing them with normal tyres. Firstly to stop the wheels cracking :o and secondly to stop the tram lining. The theory being the side walls are so stiff they transmit every road imperfection through the steering.
So soft side walls are better if the opposite is true!?!?!? :-/ with that in mind I can only assume the Falkens go too far the other way and are too soft to give stability, hence the water balloon comparison earlier.
So is it safe to say the omega needs it's tyres in a certain range of sidewall stiffness to work? Falken sidewalls are exceptionally soft, and maybe thats what makes them so quiet with comfortable ride?
On the other hand Dunlops seem to give the most planted and sure footed directional feel I've ever encountered on an omega, ride is fine, but I think it's safe to say they are not known as quiet tyres.
So are we entering the world of the tyre maker? a world of continual compromise and the elusive best of both(all)worlds brake through, the perfect tyre, maximum grip v minimum wear. Quiet with compliant ride v straight line stability. Good wet grip v good dry grip....and then make it work on all cars front or rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive, big and heavy, light or small.
Bound to be a tyre that's a mare on the Omega, and one that works well. And I guess that must go for any vehicle.
The tyre tests don't really help past a certain point, unless the tyre is tested on at least a similarly sized same wheel drive car as our own, as the Falken proves, we're not going to get the same result as seen in the tests. :'(
Chris , I'm afraid I cant agree with that..I have never seen a tire finding place in top three drops to bottom..
yes.. tires change behavior with thread wear and time and temperature, but I dont believe the best tire for a fwd car is the worst for rwd.. over the years I have visited many tire test sites and concluded that good brands and models dont change place too much .. have you seen a continental or a potenza or an eagle f1 in the bottom..
these tires are used for cars which are extremely expensive and I dont think the factories just go and buy a set..
Falken and p zero being an exception then? Well certainly the Falken. And TB's experience with pirelli p6000 and the Rover?
Or look at it another way, if the Falken behaves the same way on other cars as it does the omega then how do they sell any at all?
Uit I do take your point, although there are some add balls as we have just discussed.
Do you have any info or tests on the Falken cem? Ok ok, obsessing a bit now. ;D
Ps, post in question edited slightly. ;)
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agree the previos model was better, but fit any Falken to an omega at your peril!
Said this before and I'll keep saying it as long as I live " NEVER NEVER EVER FIT FALKEN TYRES TO AN OMEGA......[size=24]EVER[/size]
My, my, I've got some saving to do!
Perhaps that's why I move sideways unexplainedly! :o
I will have to go for the part worns after all to say goodbye to the Falkens sooner rather than later. Still, will prompt the wheel refurb at the same time.
Bugger! >:(
Potenzas and Contis it is then!
Matthew
that is my experience yes :'(. Worth checking bushes etc, but ime changing from Falkens improved the handling way over and above any failed bush.
Wish I new exactly what it is about these tyres that affects them so.... I guess the side Walls are over soft.....?
Speeking to Wim re BMW's run flats they talk of replacing them with normal tyres. Firstly to stop the wheels cracking :o and secondly to stop the tram lining. The theory being the side walls are so stiff they transmit every road imperfection through the steering.
So soft side walls are better if the opposite is true!?!?!? :-/ with that in mind I can only assume the Falkens go too far the other way and are too soft to give stability, hence the water balloon comparison earlier.
So is it safe to say the omega needs it's tyres in a certain range of sidewall stiffness to work? Falken sidewalls are exceptionally soft, and maybe thats what makes them so quiet with comfortable ride?
On the other hand Dunlops seem to give the most planted and sure footed directional feel I've ever encountered on an omega, ride is fine, but I think it's safe to say they are not known as quiet tyres.
So are we entering the world of the tyre maker? a world of continual compromise and the elusive best of both(all)worlds brake through, the perfect tyre, maximum grip v minimum wear. Quiet with compliant ride v straight line stability. Good wet grip v good dry grip....and then make it work on all cars front or rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive, big and heavy, light or small.
Bound to be a tyre that's a mare on the Omega, and one that works well. And I guess that must go for any vehicle.
The tyre tests don't really help past a certain point, unless the tyre is tested on at least a similarly sized same wheel drive car as our own, as the Falken proves, we're not going to get the same result as seen in the tests. :'(
Chris , I'm afraid I cant agree with that..I have never seen a tire finding place in top three drops to bottom..
yes.. tires change behavior with thread wear and time and temperature, but I dont believe the best tire for a fwd car is the worst for rwd.. over the years I have visited many tire test sites and concluded that good brands and models dont change place too much .. have you seen a continental or a potenza or an eagle f1 in the bottom..
these tires are used for cars which are extremely expensive and I dont think the factories just go and buy a set..
Falken and p zero being an exception then? Well certainly the Falken. And TB's experience with pirelli p6000 and the Rover?
Or look at it another way, if the Falken behaves the same way on other cars as it does the omega then how do they sell any at all?
Uit I do take your point, although there are some add balls as we have just discussed.
Do you have any info or tests on the Falken cem? Ok ok, obsessing a bit now. ;D
Falken 452.. have many consumer and review complaints..and some reviews also says it tramlines badly .. ..and I dont remember it wins any test..anyway its a budget tire.. thats the reason why people buy .. for example michelin energy saver .. thats an awful tire but people here buy it :(
and for Pirelli pzero (not sure which submodel you mention) but as general acceptance these are summer performance tires, needs to be heated before they start to grip and wont work on low temperatures..
pagani used those tires on a 678 bhp 780 Nm car costing 1.8 million £ ..
http://www.bobforstner.com/marken/pagani-automobili/pagani-zonda-cinque.htm
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Hi so which soft or hard wall tyres are more prone to tramlining
I had conties which i had tramlining swopped them for goodyear F1 no problems for the past 5,000 miles
Bear in mind my experience is primarily on the MR2 (I did have some Toyo's on the 300ZX as well, but not long enough to really get a feel for them before I grenaded the gearbox) but the softer sidewalls are better for tramlining than the super-hard sidewalled stock RE040s..
Then again the RE040s are awful in general, so it's a bit of an unfair comparison.
What you gain in the lack of tramlining, however, you lose in turn-in 'feel' as the Toyos are definitely considerably more 'wooly' at the front end. Once you're turned in and really leaning on them then they feel great as long as the slip angle remains constant, but once you start needing to make course corrections they're not as good as a harder walled tyre.
All depends what you're after really .. I quite like the Toyos all things told purely because they are incredibly communicative about the available grip level and very progressive on the limit - though the absolute limit of grip is undoubtedly lower than a more expensive tyre.
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What you gain in the lack of tramlining, however, you lose in turn-in 'feel' as the Toyos are definitely considerably more 'wooly' at the front end. Once you're turned in and really leaning on them then they feel great as long as the slip angle remains constant, but once you start needing to make course corrections they're not as good as a harder walled tyre.
Funnily enough, those are exactly my feelings about the KU31 having driven on them for a while. Once you've told yourself it's going to grip and turned in with a bit of confidence, they are quite communicative, but they feel very understeery and light as you start to turn in in comparison to some tyres I've tried, and you really have to trust them in the wet, although, as you say, once you're in the turn they have more feel than I'm used to in the Omega.
Fronts are getting reasonably well worn now and while there's a little bit of wandering it hasn't prompted me to swap them to the rear yet, which is a good sign, especially as I think I've got a knackered wishbone bush. >:(
Kevin
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A couple of years back i had a lexus ls400 luxobarge and it was fitted with a set of falkens, i have never had a car more frightning to drive in the wet than that thing. I had a full geometery check by tony at wim and asked him for a recomendation for tyres, he advised a set of toyo proxes. i bought a set and the car was transformed into the safe car they are known to be, they were superb. the falkens were changed with about 6mm of tread on them and will never use them on any of my cars.
Having said that the omega is due some new rubber very soon and have already had 2 new michelin pilot primacys fitted and the car is now soooo quite on the road and tramline issues have gone from the pirellis p7000,s i have had for the last 4 years.
In the end you pays your money and takes your choice, so to say, so try to make the right choice before it hurts your bank account. :'(
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What you gain in the lack of tramlining, however, you lose in turn-in 'feel' as the Toyos are definitely considerably more 'wooly' at the front end. Once you're turned in and really leaning on them then they feel great as long as the slip angle remains constant, but once you start needing to make course corrections they're not as good as a harder walled tyre.
Funnily enough, those are exactly my feelings about the KU31 having driven on them for a while. Once you've told yourself it's going to grip and turned in with a bit of confidence, they are quite communicative, but they feel very understeery and light as you start to turn in in comparison to some tyres I've tried, and you really have to trust them in the wet, although, as you say, once you're in the turn they have more feel than I'm used to in the Omega.
Fronts are getting reasonably well worn now and while there's a little bit of wandering it hasn't prompted me to swap them to the rear yet, which is a good sign, especially as I think I've got a knackered wishbone bush. >:(
Yep that sounds just like the Toyo's - great on track where you can really lean on them with a nice big safety margin but you have to be really committed (possibly overly so) on the road to get the best out of them and/or really get used to them on the car.
Actually quite like the no-name things on the Omega at the moment (empty roads on the way home so I got to have a .. quick .. drive up the Bagshot road) - although the no-names have absolutely sod all grip at the rear in anything but decent conditions.
Really need to put some new boots on the Omega (ones that don't go flat every couple of weeks would be good!) .. and on the MR2, and given Neovas are nearly £600 .. it's going to be an expensive month!
(Incidentally I've picked up a knock from the front recently too :( suppose I need to get those wishbones bushed sooner rather than later, then!)
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Actually quite like the no-name things on the Omega at the moment (empty roads on the way home so I got to have a .. quick .. drive up the Bagshot road) - although the no-names have absolutely sod all grip at the rear in anything but decent conditions.
Interesting. I normally swap the worn fronts to the rear on my car, so the rears are normally the worse for wear, and I have never had an issue with grip at the rear. It just holds on no matter what (unless deliberately provoked).
Really need to put some new boots on the Omega (ones that don't go flat every couple of weeks would be good!) .. and on the MR2, and given Neovas are nearly £600 .. it's going to be an expensive month!
Reminds me I need to get some new boots on the Westfield (and change the clutch as it happens) ::) before the silly season starts.
(Incidentally I've picked up a knock from the front recently too :( suppose I need to get those wishbones bushed sooner rather than later, then!)
If it's a knock it's more likely to be the ARB drop links. :y
Kevin
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.. and out of interest... How would you rate the Neovas in the terms we've been talking about relative to the Proxes (cornering feel and feedback)? I appreciate they're on a different car.
Just pondering what to put on the Westfield next. :-/
Kevin
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.. and out of interest... How would you rate the Neovas in the terms we've been talking about relative to the Proxes (cornering feel and feedback)? I appreciate they're on a different car.
Just pondering what to put on the Westfield next. :-/
The Neovas (that's the LTS - Elise specific fitment (http://www.eliseparts.com/products/show/78/481/yokohama-advan-neova/)) are the best thing I've ever driven on, really.. I'm guessing they will be bettered by something purely track oriented (R1-R, R888s or AO48s) but they are simply an astounding tyre.
Absolutely as communicative as the Proxes but with stiff sidewalls that give really precise feedback on turn-in and confidence so you can instantly load them up and find the limit. Really progressive on the limit but with a much, much higher limit than the Proxes.
Great grip in the dry and superb grip in the wet - heck, I ran them almost bald (er..) through a winter and didn't even have a moment (well, ok, one moment).
The only trouble is they're only available in one pair of sizes - 195/50R15 front and 225/45R16 rear. Personally, though, I think they're so good I'd buy a set of wheels just for them..
R1-Rs are available in more sizes, though, and have a similar looking tread pattern so they might be worth a punt?
I know people who talk very highly about the R888s (soft or med. soft) for track work, and rate them pretty highly on the road too as long as you're willing to work them and get them up to temperature, but for me I think they'd be a step too far into 'hello puddle, hello wall' territory..
(And yeah, I did wonder if it was the droplink - need to get that corner up in the air in a weekend or two and wobble everything while I'm standing in my friends pit :y)
[edit] If I get the Neovas on the MR2 soon you're welcome to come out for a spin, by the way!
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Ahh, yes, I remember you saying before that it was the LTS you use.
I was thinking about changing to 195/50/15 this time anyway, as there's more choice and cheaper prices than the 205/50s I'm currently on (they're a bit pimpy for a Westfield anyway!).
I think my rims are 7x15 so should take a 195 OK.
They are a bit steep though. :o Or is that for a pair? ;)
Is there a big difference between the LTS and the Neova AD08?
I would go for the R888 or A048 if the car didn't get so much commuting and pootling around on the road. I know a few people who run them and reckon they're not too bad in the wet even, but the fact remains that they are compromised for most of my usage and they'll also suffer a pretty serious wear rate which isn't worth it unless most of your driving is going to be "making use of the available grip".
The R1-R does look worth a try.. Price looks good too.
<rubs chin>
Kevin
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They are a bit steep though. :o Or is that for a pair? ;)
That's a pair :) Which, actually, means they've dropped in price a bit since the last time I looked - it was over £500 a set, then.
Perhaps people don't tend to buy summer sports-car tyres mid-winter ;D
Is there a big difference between the LTS and the Neova AD08?
Unfortunately I don't know anyone whose run the two on anything comparable so it's hard to say :(
I would go for the R888 or A048 if the car didn't get so much commuting and pootling around on the road. I know a few people who run them and reckon they're not too bad in the wet even, but the fact remains that they are compromised for most of my usage and they'll also suffer a pretty serious wear rate which isn't worth it unless most of your driving is going to be "making use of the available grip".
That was the same sort of conclusion I came to with for the MR2 - although I do know someone who runs the R888s on his MR2 as a primarily road car (granted it's not his commuter as he's got a diseasel for that). I hear the same things, though - really not as bad as you'd think in the wet until you hit a puddle..
At which point you do a 720 and go backward into the Armco on the A1 (as my friend with the ~270bhp VXR220 found out) .. and that doesn't sound like my idea of fun!
The R1-R does look worth a try.. Price looks good too.
Doesn't it? Little more than the LTS but available in more sizes.. actually quite tempting now prices have dropped a little.
Choices, choices!
BTW what fitment is the westfield for wheels? I have a spare set of wheels with .. very .. worn LTS on if you wanted to try them (I'd recommend a dry day!) - 4x100, 54.1mm bore.
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Ahh, yes, I remember you saying before that it was the LTS you use.
I was thinking about changing to 195/50/15 this time anyway, as there's more choice and cheaper prices than the 205/50s I'm currently on (they're a bit pimpy for a Westfield anyway!).
I think my rims are 7x15 so should take a 195 OK.
They are a bit steep though. :o Or is that for a pair? ;)
Is there a big difference between the LTS and the Neova AD08?
I would go for the R888 or A048 if the car didn't get so much commuting and pootling around on the road. I know a few people who run them and reckon they're not too bad in the wet even, but the fact remains that they are compromised for most of my usage and they'll also suffer a pretty serious wear rate which isn't worth it unless most of your driving is going to be "making use of the available grip".
The R1-R does look worth a try.. Price looks good too.
<rubs chin>
Kevin
Kevin , potenza s001 have sizes for both 195/50-15 and 205/50-15 .. and not that expensive ..
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BTW what fitment is the westfield for wheels? I have a spare set of wheels with .. very .. worn LTS on if you wanted to try them (I'd recommend a dry day!) - 4x100, 54.1mm bore.
PCD is 109, I believe. Thanks for the offer, though. :y
Kevin
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What you gain in the lack of tramlining, however, you lose in turn-in 'feel' as the Toyos are definitely considerably more 'wooly' at the front end. Once you're turned in and really leaning on them then they feel great as long as the slip angle remains constant, but once you start needing to make course corrections they're not as good as a harder walled tyre.
Funnily enough, those are exactly my feelings about the KU31 having driven on them for a while. Once you've told yourself it's going to grip and turned in with a bit of confidence, they are quite communicative, but they feel very understeery and light as you start to turn in in comparison to some tyres I've tried, and you really have to trust them in the wet, although, as you say, once you're in the turn they have more feel than I'm used to in the Omega.
Fronts are getting reasonably well worn now and while there's a little bit of wandering it hasn't prompted me to swap them to the rear yet, which is a good sign, especially as I think I've got a knackered wishbone bush. >:(
Kevin
Were / Are your KU31's the SPT or XL version??
Mine are the XL (Extra Load) version which are harder side walls.
The Kumhos do grip very well in the wet and dry and not had as to yet any breakaway from the front or rear.