Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Dracoro on 08 October 2010, 10:45:41
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Car today, started ok, after a mile or so every time I came to a halt the engine sounded a bit rough and the car was vibrating a little. Kind of a chug-chug sound. Once above 2500rpm it seems fine and runs sort of OK although it doesn't seem 100% "right" but appears to rev/pull reasonably OK. Almost feels like a blowing exhaust but the exhaust all looks OK. After journey there was a faint oily smell but no leaks and no oil in the engine bay that I can see. There also seems to be a little bit more of a "thunk" when when it drops down into a low gear (e.g when pulling into a junction after coming down from 30/40 mph etc.). It's not a big thunk though and all other gear changes up/down all smooth and normal.
Car laid up for 40 minutes then I tried re-starting and it hasn't gone away.
Oil/coolant levels all OK. no overheating etc.
Any ideas?
edit: might be worth mentioning that I had (a few months ago) the rocker gaskets done. Is it possible that that HT leads were damaged (all the time that the RG were leaking into the plug wells) and now eventually failed? How would I test this?
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if there is no eml light I would check those items at first
* sparks
* fuel filter
* DIS (my initial estimation) water dropping on DIS damages it..
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Thanks.
Thanks.
Sparks are quite new.
will look at fuel filter (where is it?)
I noticed the sponge bit under the water tray (above the dis) was very wet (lot of wet weather recently!). May this is causing problems? Do I just remove and clean/dry it out?
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If the sponge insulation is wet then the DIS pack will almost certainly be getting a nice soaking - IIRC it's the seals along the scuttle edges that you need to check (and, yes, pull it all out and dry it out).
You'll probably find that the DIS pack has started to degrade, and possibly split & rust :(
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Thanks.
Presumably the leads will be OK so all I need is the DIS? Are these expensive? (is a DIS effectively a distributer?). I will try drying, cleaning or are they unrepairable?
And yes, it is going dugga dugga dugga dugga :D
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check also the leads and sockets etc..
all I need is the DIS? nope.. first do the checks sometimes problems can be complicated
Are these expensive ? imo not cheap..
is a DIS effectively a distributer ?http://www.aa1car.com/library/dis.htm
are they unrepairable ? have not seen any repaired example..
if there is another miggy owner close to you you can swap and test.. :-/
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Thanks.
Looks like I need to remove the plenum to be able to check the leads anyway (and the DIS).
DIS seem to be £50/60 or so, does that sound right? VX want ridiculous amounts!
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Thanks.
Looks like I need to remove the plenum to be able to check the leads anyway (and the DIS).
DIS seem to be £50/60 or so, does that sound right? VX want ridiculous amounts!
130£ here ;D
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OK, an update and help required :)
The DIS is a right bugger to get to, no way of getting it out without removing the plenum and even then I can see it won't be easy. Who designed this crap?!
Anyway. I could remove sparks on the drivers side and sparks 3 and 5 (2 nearest to bulkhead) spark OK when trying to start (took plugs out). Spark 1 would not spark. swapped plugs and no joy so the plugs on that side are OK. So it looks like lead 1 isn't getting a spark.
How can I investigate further? I think I could manage to get a lead from the DIS at plug 1 but would need a new lead from somewhere - will any lead do for this test?
No chance of getting to the plugs on the nearside, again which idiot designed this thing... It's like they've made something that should be simple as tricky as possible. Even if I removed the plenum etc, could I then still do the spark test?
Also, the padding underneath the scuttle was soaked through (trying to dry it) and almost fell off. Do I really need to replace it? What does it actually do?
On the plus side, I managed to unblock the drain hole while I was at it ;D
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bet its the dis
just had same problem my self passanger side cam gasket went and fryed leads
ripd it apart and fitted new cam gaskets on both banks and new leads
then its still fooked ad had to put in a new dis pac as well
found the easyest way to get dis pac out i think
undo plenum and move i over to the left
un clip and remove plastic caseing from whiring harness
mover over wires to right
pull leds off diff and get em out of the way
move over as much wireing as you can from dis
theres 4 star bolts holding it in
that the intreting bit i used a flexable driver and got someone to shine a mag lght at so i could see better
while siting on top of engine
get it in out is the hard bit comes out to the left of metal bracket but you have to pull on bracket a touc to give a couple more mils space
bt will only come out one way so keep rotating it to you find way it comes out
mine fell apart in my hand i was that fooked
then same un putting new one in
expect plenty of skin mssing from knuckels
right now im off to get oil of me lol
good luck
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1155224533
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That's the guide I tried to follow. The guide doesn't mention removing the plenum but the pics show it's removed.
The DIS isn't in the same place on mine. Mine is sitting horizontally and is further back and down, a real PITA to get to.
I guess I can get any lead that fits for purposes of testing if it's the DIS or the leads? A single cheap lead as it were...
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yea like mine was as above mine was horizontall and bolted t a horozontal plate with 4 e/star bolts
as above i just shoved penulm off to side
and used a flexable nut driver to undo bolts it does come trust it want as bad as it looked
the hard bit as above was figering out witch way to pull it out gap after geting bolts out
but it dose come out once you find right way
like i said helps as its dark and hard to see having a frind shine in a tourch o you can see bolts better
re leads i got a set for 29 quid from eurocar parts
the amazing bit was after new dis pac and leads and air filter my3l elite is doing 20 to the gallon around town
iv only ever had about 14-15 around town couldent belive it gave me 25% beter fuel consumption
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Hope it improves my mpg (if the DIS pack is faulty) as I don't get great mpg in town and it's only the 2.5....
What is a flexible nut driver?
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Hope it improves my mpg (if the DIS pack is faulty) as I don't get great mpg in town and it's only the 2.5....
What is a flexible nut driver?
one of thease
http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Hand-Tools/Screwdrivers/Long-Reach-Flexible-Hose-Clip-Nut-Driver-Set-4pc/303858/kw/89-3446?source=googleps&utm_source=googleps
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An update.
Couldn't really figure if the leads are OK, sometimes some sparked, sometimes not. Got multimeter out and only 9 and 11 from leads/cylinders 5 and 3 and no reading at all from 1 (but sure I saw spark once but may be wrong).
So managed to get the DIS module out (what a PITA) as thinking it must not be sending to lead 1 (plus 2,4,6 needed removing plenum etc. anyway).
DIS looks relatively fine, however underneath the sockets for leads 1 and 4 at the end, I can see the plastic peeling away (about a 1mm gap) and I can a layer/sliver or two of dark rust. some small cracks on the top of the "end bit" too. Sorry no pics but the following image is somewhat worse than mine but I can see mine going that way - (http://images.omegaowners.com/images/guides/How_to_Disc_Pack_V6/IMG4.jpg).
Does this mean it's on it's way out, irrespective of lead condition?
If so, I guess I need new DIS unit, re-fit and see if OK. If not, then new leads to be sure? Can I test the DIS with a multimeter? If so, how?
I see ECP sell the BOSCH and BERU at around £90 and ARC at about £50. http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Vauxhall_Omega_2.5_1999/p/Car-Parts/Engine-Parts/Ignition/Ignition-Coils
Given I don't do much mileage (5k year) as have another car, will the cheap unit see the car out? I can handle replacing it if it goes in 25k miles/5 years down the line (doubt I'll still have the car then!!!).
Also, anyone know where I can get the HT leads (car is 2.5 petrol on a facelift model so individual leads from DIS to plug.) as ECP don't quote on their site. Vauxhall had some comedians in their parts dept, nigh on £200, I don't think so!!!
I'm nr Horsham if that helps or if anyone knows good local suppliers.
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snap got oe hear that looks exactly the same as that that i took out 2 days ago and its stuffed
think the dis pacs last about 100k my elite is on 89k
had o pay 194 for my new one car run like a dream know
theres a couple so youneed numer of the dis pac to get the new one
i got need leads for 28 quid from eurocar parts
and they work fine
they seem to do dis pacs cheaper to
i saw after i spent 194 at local stealers
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Vauxhall_Omega_3.0_1999/p/Car-Parts/Electrical-and-Lighting/Ignition/Ignition-Coils
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Anyone any opinions on the ARC vs BOSCH for the DIS pack?
Local ECP has both in stock.
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imo Bosch..
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UPDATE:
New leads, new DIS coil pack (BERU, no BOSCH in stock - they showed me the ARC one and it didn't appear as well made and the electric connector wasn't was well designed. The BERU unit appeared identical to the BOSCH one and is OEM also apparently....).
DIS - £76 (I got a discount as they didn't have the bosch in stock)
Leads - £27
Anyway, a bit easier to put everything together thankfully! Best advice I would give is to resist hurrying this part, make sure everything is re-connected properly etc.
Just done and a few miles to test and running sweet as a nut! Well happy, I achieved something! God knows how much labour a garage would have charged for this job.
Now, a nice pint of Hophead beckons! :D
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The dis pack I'm selling is a Bosch item and has done less than 5,000 miles...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1286275283
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Pity I hadn't seen your post this before this afternoon ;D
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UPDATE:
New leads, new DIS coil pack (BERU, no BOSCH in stock - they showed me the ARC one and it didn't appear as well made and the electric connector wasn't was well designed. The BERU unit appeared identical to the BOSCH one and is OEM also apparently....).
DIS - £76 (I got a discount as they didn't have the bosch in stock)
Leads - £27
Anyway, a bit easier to put everything together thankfully! Best advice I would give is to resist hurrying this part, make sure everything is re-connected properly etc.
Just done and a few miles to test and running sweet as a nut! Well happy, I achieved something! God knows how much labour a garage would have charged for this job.
Now, a nice pint of Hophead beckons! :D
lol it a right bastart geting it in and out aint it lol
iv got scollosis/curviture of the spine just been back to docs for a shit load more pain killers as i set off bad again
bent up in engine bay getting the dam thing in and out
out of curosity are you getting beter miles per gallon now
son as i put it computer shot up too 20 to the gallon around town
i recon it must ave been goigfor a while as id been getting 15 to gallon round town but no misfire too last week
and that a 25% fuel econamy gain.
may well be worth it if anyones has droped checking out the dis pack at that rate in fuel saving it will pay for its self in a few weeks
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I'll update thread if I notice any improvement in MPG. Work a home a lot (so haven't driven it today) and have another car that I use so it may be a little while before I really know if it's improved much ;D
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Hello World,
Just wanted to share my experiences in case it's of help to another. I originally found this thread using a Google search and most of the info here was of great help.
Having driven the (wife's) car a 2000 Model B 2.5 V6, there was initially no issue, despite her report one during commuting.
I set out to the local accessory shop to get a set of new plugs as these hadn't been changed in 2000 miles, and a set of new plugs are worth their value at the pumps (these days) just on improved MPG.
Having driven the vehicle about 8 miles on a round trip to get the thing through the warm up cycle I stopped for about 2 mins. On restarting the car there was a definite mis-fire, and from the feel of it it was one cylinder on the left side bank (viewed from cabin) The mis-fire was compounded by a more noticeable exhaust note as the unburned fuel from failing cylinder, ignited in the down pipe on the next cylinder's exhaust pulse. This sounded somewhat like a blowing exhaust.
So this may be a tell tale sound for others to listen out for.
Performance and inst mpg dropped off, but no indications from dash light that this was ecu logged fault.
So I stripped down the necessary clutter to change the plugs.
On removing #6 plug (back right when viewed under bonnet) the outer of the plug had rusted and the boot on the lead was covered in a brown dusty rust stain. Clearly water had been entering the plug well and evaporating off causing the deposit on the lead boot.
Yet now the plug was certainly mis-firing. Now not sure how many of you have looked closely at the way a plug is made, but when the insulator part is crimped into the metal base, the plating put on the base cracks off, leaving the crimped part most susceptible to corrosion. If the plug gets exposed to water and heat to exacerbate rusting this crimping swells on the 360° surface surrounding the insulator and it cracks the porcelain very neatly and almost invisibly. This allows for further ingress of water if the contaminant is still present, and the result is a plug that shorts to ground from core to metal base.
Whilst the leads were off I performed the resistance testing of the HT side of the DIS as explained in the video link I found linking from this thread. As all the secondary readings were within spec I was confident I'd located the cause of the misfire.
In this instance replacing the plug(s) cured the mis-fire, but not the cause.
Later that day it rained and on lifting the bonnet I noticed a steady stream of drain water dropping over the #6 plug area and the DIS, and also on the other bank under the scuttle edge. The foam is soaked, and so remedial treatment will be required to solve this issue. The regular rain drain on the offside is unblocked, so I'll need to be creative with the solution to clearing standing water from the lowest point on the scuttle.
Hope that's help to somebody one day.
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check the 4 breathers that run along the top of the plenum chamber too as this will cause rough runnning and if left too long will blow ur rocker gasket
hope this helps
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Hope it improves my mpg (if the DIS pack is faulty) as I don't get great mpg in town and it's only the 2.5....
What is a flexible nut driver?
I wouldn't replace just the dis pack and not the leads personally, i had both done on our 2.5 cdx just before crimbo, as well as plugs and rocker gaskets and breathers cleaned out and the difference was unbelievable.
Tbh the omega's forte mpg wise isn't driving round town, in all honsesty what car's is? ours is doing high teens maybe 20 if driving like a grandad, on the motorway etc once you get into top gear its 30+ though so pretty good for the size of the car imo :)
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Personally I would say that the feint smell of oil is the cam covers leaking oil into the spark plug wells...which will also help the soaked dispac on its way to an early grave...and will need sorting...