Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Simon72 on 29 November 2010, 20:24:19

Title: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Simon72 on 29 November 2010, 20:24:19
I know I have asked a similar question before and someone answered part of the question about temperature activation BUT

The diesel heater thing under the front bumper (O/Side) I have been told should work when outside temperature is below a certain temperature. My problem is it has been well below 0deg C the past few days and when I have started the car from cold the heater thing doesn't seam to be working. (No fumes coming from its exhaust or even the silencer bit stone cold)

Is there a way of testing it or has it got a fuse to make it work, or do they get disabled in the UK due to not much need?

Would be grateful of the help on how and when it actually works, and how to make it work.

Regards

Simon
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 29 November 2010, 20:28:18
i'm looking for the same answers..mine wont start either :(
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 29 November 2010, 20:47:26
it's a coolant heater. Just burns diesel to heat up the coolant, probably fitted to give the heater a better chance of working. No idea on the "when should it run" strategy. Might get some idea from the Haynes manual
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Andy B on 29 November 2010, 20:52:53
Quote
it's a coolant heater. Just burns diesel to heat up the coolant, probably fitted to give the heater a better chance of working. No idea on the "when should it run" strategy. Might get some idea from the Haynes manual

That was a great help Stu!  ::) ::) ;) ;)
Stating  & obvious springs to mind!  ;) ;) :y
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 29 November 2010, 20:59:08
Quote
Quote
it's a coolant heater. Just burns diesel to heat up the coolant, probably fitted to give the heater a better chance of working. No idea on the "when should it run" strategy. Might get some idea from the Haynes manual

That was a great help Stu!  ::) ::) ;) ;)
Stating  & obvious springs to mind!  ;) ;) :y
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
we already knew that :P
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Welung666 on 29 November 2010, 21:01:39
It should run from first start up if the outside temp. is below a certain level (not sure on the setting). Check fuse 24 (20a) :y
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 29 November 2010, 21:05:37
i can program it.. i have a mini clock inside... and it should start if i program it if the cooling water is below 70 degrees celsiuzs
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 29 November 2010, 21:15:57
the OP called it a "diesel heater" - i though he might be under the impression that it heated diesel, which would be an advantage in this sort of weather.

so apologies if i've told you something you already know.
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Andy B on 29 November 2010, 21:16:59
Quote
the OP called it a "diesel heater" - i though he might be under the impression that it heated diesel, which would be an advantage in this sort of weather.

so apologies if i've told you something you already know.

we're only pulling your leg  ;) ;) ;) :y
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: fiend61 on 29 November 2010, 21:20:45
 below 70 degrees celsiuzs jesus that is mighty cold  ::)
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: feeutfo on 29 November 2010, 21:31:56
Its a Webasto heater, or made by, i believe.

A google will reveal far more than I can tell you about them.

A quick look reveals http://www.standkachels.com/   A Dutch site with some English sections.

They have numerous applications not just in cars afaict.
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 29 November 2010, 21:36:20
ok - so thinking on a bit, it's going to to need the following control strategy........

to switch ON if ambient temperature is below a certain limit, probably about 10degrees C

to switch OFF if the coolant temperature exceeds a certain limit, probably about 75degrees C

and it'll need an automatic lighting facility - some sort of glow-plug,which will be fragile.

so to diagnose, I'd look for the ambient temp sensor, the coolant temp sensor and the glow-plug.
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: feeutfo on 29 November 2010, 21:49:57
...and going by my neighbours experience with his 530D Beemer, they are almost a sealed unit. Ended up with another unit from a breakers, wasn't cheap either iirc

But worth persuing and checking the above first.
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Simon72 on 29 November 2010, 22:20:07
Cheers for the advice.

Right just been out and checked Fuse 24 (20amp) OK :-(

So its not the fuse.

Does anyone have a circuit diagram or pin layout for the plug on the unit so that I can test for Voltage etc. ?

Or even Model Number of the unit so I can search on the net myself.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 29 November 2010, 22:43:35
it's in the Haynes manual I think (although mine isn't here, so I can't check)
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Andy B on 29 November 2010, 22:48:04
Quote
it's in the Haynes manual I think (although mine isn't here, so I can't check)

can't be. pre-heater is only fitted to 2.2 diseasal and they're facelifted cars. Mr Haynes hasn't done a facelift manual.  ;)
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: mrjimbo on 29 November 2010, 22:52:51
It works on the same principle as truck night heaters or boat heaters. Do a search for Webasto or Erbespacher night heaters and there should be a service agent locally who will probably be able to take a look at it.

A lot of the time they fail to ignite when you try and start them due to a faulty glowplug.
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 29 November 2010, 22:54:27
that's why I was surprised to see it there, but came to the conclusion that is was fitted to earlier cars, but outside the UK.

don't forget there's all sorts of stuff in the Haynes manual wiring diagram, such as for Japanese cars for instance.
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: mrjimbo on 29 November 2010, 22:55:25
Guy at work has a 2.5 with one fitted (X reg)  :y
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Kevin Wood on 29 November 2010, 22:56:13
OK. From the diagrams...

Power supply comes from F24 Red wire.

It has connections to the Climate Control (Black and White) (so probably only works if that's on and calling for heat) and the alternator (Blue and White) (charge light - so probably detects if engine is running).

There is a blower motor, a fuel pump, a glow plug, 2 temperature sensors and a flame sensor.

I have never seen one of these so can only make assumptions about how it works but it strikes me as being similar to an oil fired heating boiler:

Fan on
Glow plug on
Fuel pump on
Wait for a few seconds to see if it lights
If it lights, glow plug off, happy days.  :)
If it doesn't light, fuel off, wait a while and try again.  :-/
If a few attempts fail, shut down.  :(

It has a diagnostic connector so I would expect a Tech 2 can probably interrogate fault codes from it... Stand by.. Yep, the Tech 2 does have an option to diagnose it. No idea what that tells you but I would have thought fault codes and perhaps live data that might give some clues.

Kevin
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Andy B on 29 November 2010, 22:58:14
Quote
that's why I was surprised to see it there, but came to the conclusion that is was fitted to earlier cars, but outside the UK.

don't forget there's all sorts of stuff in the Haynes manual wiring diagram, such as for Japanese cars for instance.

True! I'm obviously not as observant as you.  ;)
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 29 November 2010, 23:01:24
but you can spot when I'm stating the obvious.... ::)
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Andy B on 29 November 2010, 23:03:48
Quote
but you can spot when I'm stating the obvious.... ::)

But there was safety in number for that post!  :y :y :y
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 29 November 2010, 23:04:04
Quote

There is a blower motor, a fuel pump, a glow plug, 2 temperature sensors and a flame sensor.


surely the blower motor will be an electric coolant pump ?
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 29 November 2010, 23:07:16
Quote
But there was safety in number for that post!  :y :y :y

what's the plural of touché ?
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 30 November 2010, 08:41:22
the device is "ebrereberspreacher" :P.. Hydronic D5WS is mine. When it can be programed it starts at a certain time and heats up the engine water, and starts the climate control so that when you get in the car its already worm and fuzzy :). if it can't be programmed it will start automaticly with the engine if the temp outside is below +5 degrees celius and will help the engine to get to the normal operating temperature fasster. that is the basic principle. it has a fuel pump, and a water pump in its components... i was hoping for someone to tell us how to jump start it :).

Manual here:
http://www.eberspacher.com/downloads/technical-documents/D5W_manual.pdf
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 November 2010, 09:21:30
Quote
surely the blower motor will be an electric coolant pump ?

It talks about a blower in the schematic. Not having seen one in the flesh I'm not sure. I think this type of device is only designed to operate with the engine running, so not a pre-heater.

Quote
the device is "ebrereberspreacher" Tongue.. Hydronic D5WS is mine. When it can be programed it starts at a certain time and heats up the engine water, and starts the climate control so that when you get in the car its already worm and fuzzy Smiley. if it can't be programmed it will start automaticly with the engine if the temp outside is below +5 degrees celius and will help the engine to get to the normal operating temperature fasster. that is the basic principle. it has a fuel pump, and a water pump in its components... i was hoping for someone to tell us how to jump start it Smiley.

This is also in the wiring diagrams and is a more complex beast. This is clearly designed as a pre-heater. I don't think it was the type commonly fitted in the UK market, though. I might be wrong...

Kevin
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 30 November 2010, 09:40:04
you can check what model you have bt looking above the radiator plastic cover under the bonnet for the label, and if that isn't there you can put your head just under the drivers headlight in front of the wing and there will be a label on the heater itself. From my knowledge all 2,2 diesels have this heater.
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: zarehs on 30 November 2010, 13:51:30
Does it emit smoke from under the o/s bumper when on?

I was worried there was a fault with my car this morning  :o .
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 30 November 2010, 15:54:34
Quote
Does it emit smoke from under the o/s bumper when on?

I was worried there was a fault with my car this morning  :o .

yes it does make smoke :)
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: zarehs on 30 November 2010, 17:50:36
phew!
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 30 November 2010, 18:47:45
I dont think it is in Haynes as Haynes only covers cars upto '99 MY IIRC
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: fergy on 30 November 2010, 19:36:12
Hi
For the benefit of the OP my 2.2 Dti only starts up the  coolant heater with the  engine running, air con ON and  set to deliver heat.  Ambient  emperature needs to be about 0 degrees C or lower.  For the UK market it is not a pre-heater, it simply enables useful  cabin heat to be delivered via the climate control a lot quicker than it  otherwise would.   I think Mr Wood's interpretaion of the wiring/ operation is pretty accurate in comparison with my experiece of the thing.
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 30 November 2010, 20:11:54
we know after 3 pages what it does and what its composed of.. how do we fix our broken ones?
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: 2woody on 30 November 2010, 22:10:13
Quote
Hi
For the benefit of the OP my 2.2 Dti only starts up the  coolant heater with the  engine running, air con ON and  set to deliver heat.  Ambient  emperature needs to be about 0 degrees C or lower.  For the UK market it is not a pre-heater, it simply enables useful  cabin heat to be delivered via the climate control a lot quicker than it  otherwise would.   I think Mr Wood's interpretaion of the wiring/ operation is pretty accurate in comparison with my experiece of the thing.
Hope this helps.

Wil Mr Wood have looked at the Haynes manual ?
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 November 2010, 22:39:20
Quote
Wil Mr Wood have looked at the Haynes manual ?

TIS actually, but the effect is the same, just strains the eyes a little less. ;D

Kevin
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 01 December 2010, 08:11:54
tech 2 will not connect to the heater.. at least for my hydronic it doesn't. eberspracher system diagnostic tool is needed to reset it. if it fails to start 2 times then it will lock itself and never start until it is connected to a tester again :(
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Omegatoy on 01 December 2010, 09:34:17
cant help wondering if a battery disconnect and wait for a few hours before reconnecting wil reboot it? anyone tried?
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Boditza on 01 December 2010, 09:54:13
Quote
cant help wondering if a battery disconnect and wait for a few hours before reconnecting wil reboot it? anyone tried?

Yep.. tryed it. it doesn't help :)))
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: charlie on 28 January 2011, 21:45:50
This might help :y :y
http://www.espar.com/tech_manuals/Older%20Coolant%20Heaters/D3WZ/D3WZ.pdf
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: feeutfo on 28 January 2011, 21:59:27
So worth checking the valve hasn't stuck?
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: charlie on 28 January 2011, 22:01:53
Unsure chris,there was that and a sensor on, or near the pollen filter to look at tomorrow :y
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Andy B on 28 January 2011, 22:07:47
My brother has one of these fitted to his 7 series. I commented on its exhaust ...... he'd wondered why he had smoke coming from his wheel arch!  ;D ;D ;D ;D He genuinely had no idea he had one on his car, he's only had it about 3 years.  :-?
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: feeutfo on 28 January 2011, 22:20:03
This is the BMW one I recognise, maybe email it your brother Andy? ;)

(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/d9fd4214.png)
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Andy B on 28 January 2011, 22:31:50
Quote
This is the BMW one I recognise, maybe email it your brother Andy? ;)

(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/d9fd4214.png)

He'd still be none the wiser. He told me over Christmas he'd had wipers fitted & BMW at a cost of £stupid!!! They'd helped justify their price because of something to do with the washers fitted to the arms .......  :-? :-? :-? :-?
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: feeutfo on 28 January 2011, 22:37:26
Yeah, sounds about right.  :-/
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: Andy H on 28 January 2011, 22:37:56
Quote
Quote

There is a blower motor, a fuel pump, a glow plug, 2 temperature sensors and a flame sensor.


surely the blower motor will be an electric coolant pump ?
It needs a blower to blow air in to mix with the diesel before combustion.

Think of it as being a little fanned-flue boiler. The usual suspects in domestic heating boilers are a seized fan or a faulty ignition module (aka glowplug...)
Title: Re: Diesel Heater Thingy
Post by: hoofing it on 29 January 2011, 07:56:31
Does the air-con not cut off below 4oc unless you use the demist button so its possible the heater won't kick in.
Just disconect it not worth the bother if the engines not heating up I just cover a 1/3 of the rad and it works a treat.
Lack off 2 extra pots won't help in it not heating up hence the webasto fitted :P :-X :y