Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: V6 CDX-er on 13 February 2011, 23:31:02
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And that's pretty dam dirty :o
Having an old Landie that I use for off-roading, I'm pretty used to coolant systems being minging and filthy, but on the Omega it really is something else.
As I'm running short of time getting it back on the road I've just topped it up with fresh coolant which will have to do for the next couple of weeks, but TBH I don't think that flushing the rad, header tank and heater matrix is going to shift much of the grime.
So, a couple of questions. On Omegas with air-con, oil coolers and god knows what else plumbed into the rad, does everything need to be dissconnected before flushing the rad, or just the top and bottom hose?
Also are there any decent cleaning agents that can be used to shift some of this gunk, or are they all snake oils?
Many thanks :y
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oil in it? Its sludge like?
Oil cooler is nackered, get it changed, don't drive it while its like that, its a real pain to flush out
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oil in it? Its sludge like?
Oil cooler is nackered, get it changed, don't drive it while its like that, its a real pain to flush out
Not quite sure what it is Tunnie. Looks like a really heavy sediment / sludge build-up in the header tank. Having only driven the vehicle 20 miles tops since buying it, I cant really comment on whether the coolant system is up to any good or not.
So, worse case scenario and it is a knackered oil cooler, how much is this going to cost me, and can I do it myself without messing it up, (yeah, I know, optermistic).
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Ok. Just had a read through the 'Changing the oil cooler guide', and even though it says "not everyone curses and swears", all I have to say is;
####! #### #### ####ity #### #### ####ing ####! >:(
All that ####ing time I had the ####ing oil filter off and the ####### plenum / inlet ####ing trumpet off, I could have done this ####ing job! ####!
All that new, fresh oil, wasted. fresh anti freeze, wasted. New gaskets, wasted. New oil filter, wasted. All my ####ing time and ####ing money, ####ing wasted! ####!
if after all this ####ing about, spending god knows how many ####ing hours in that freezing cold ####ing garage, scraping the ####ing skin off my knuckles, if this bloody car is a pile of #### to drive after all of this time, money and effort, I'm going to take a box of matches to the ####ing thing. >:(
Yep, the oil coolers shot. Theres nowt else I can think of that would cause such a massive build up of sludge and slim in my header tank. If it was rust, (and the rad looks in pretty good nick), then the car would be boiling more water than a kettle, which incidently it is not.
So, kick me in the balls whilst I'm down, but how much are these parts going to cost me?
New oil filters a cert, but what about the gaskets for the plenum and intake trumpet? These are brand new and the car hasn't even done 1/4 mile with those fitted. Do I need to spend £60 odd quid again buying new intake gaskets now that I have torqued everything up?
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Available here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Oil-Cooler-93176626-Sintra-Cavalier-MK3-V6-/190455742352?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c580bff90
Just add 4 dowty washers and the sealant.
And no, you dont need new inlet gaskets (and probably didn't last time you removed it)
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I personally fit new banjo bolts too, I've had one sheer, it's not fun removing them when they do that!
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Yes but, thats more un-neccassary cost (there not that cheap), if the op is that concerned then just get hold of a second hand spare one just in case. :y
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Available here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Oil-Cooler-93176626-Sintra-Cavalier-MK3-V6-/190455742352?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c580bff90
Just add 4 dowty washers and the sealant.
And no, you dont need new inlet gaskets (and probably didn't last time you removed it)
What size the dowty washers are?
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New oil filters a cert, but what about the gaskets for the plenum and intake trumpet? These are brand new and the car hasn't even done 1/4 mile with those fitted. Do I need to spend £60 odd quid again buying new intake gaskets now that I have torqued everything up?
You can safely re-use the intake gaskets :y
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Ok. Just had a read through the 'Changing the oil cooler guide', and even though it says "not everyone curses and swears", all I have to say is;
####! #### #### ####ity #### #### ####ing ####! >:(
All that ####ing time I had the ####ing oil filter off and the ####### plenum / inlet ####ing trumpet off, I could have done this ####ing job! ####!
All that new, fresh oil, wasted. fresh anti freeze, wasted. New gaskets, wasted. New oil filter, wasted. All my ####ing time and ####ing money, ####ing wasted! ####!
if after all this ####ing about, spending god knows how many ####ing hours in that freezing cold ####ing garage, scraping the ####ing skin off my knuckles, if this bloody car is a pile of #### to drive after all of this time, money and effort, I'm going to take a box of matches to the ####ing thing. >:(
Yep, the oil coolers shot. Theres nowt else I can think of that would cause such a massive build up of sludge and slim in my header tank. If it was rust, (and the rad looks in pretty good nick), then the car would be boiling more water than a kettle, which incidently it is not.
So, kick me in the balls whilst I'm down, but how much are these parts going to cost me?
New oil filters a cert, but what about the gaskets for the plenum and intake trumpet? These are brand new and the car hasn't even done 1/4 mile with those fitted. Do I need to spend £60 odd quid again buying new intake gaskets now that I have torqued everything up?
Gaskets will be fine, as will the oil and filter I would have thought? Some coolant may escape into the oil system when the oil pressure drops with engine off, but if it's cought early enough then no more water would contaminate the oil than condensation from alot of short journeys I would have thought???? If it does need changing oil is cheap enough on tc surely?
Unfortunate, and I do sympathise, but it's all do able. Removing the plenum is basic owner knowledge, better get used to that one old bean. Plus I'm sure when it's all added up the total bill will be cheaper than any other half decent saloon worth the name, and will stand you well in the future.
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I hate to be the bearer of even more bad news but chances are that if your oil-cooler is leaking then your head-gaskets may be on the way out too - a poorly maintained coolant system (not changing coolant every 2 years) is usually the cause.
May be worth doing a compression test while you have it striped down - may save you a little grief further down the line.
Owning an omega is certainly soul-destroying character building :y
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I hate to be the bearer of even more bad news but chances are that if your oil-cooler is leaking then your head-gaskets may be on the way out too - a poorly maintained coolant system (not changing coolant every 2 years) is usually the cause.
May be worth doing a compression test while you have it striped down - may save you a little grief further down the line.
Owning an omega is certainly soul-destroying character building :y
Oh for f#cks sake!
If they are then I'm firing it off to auction and I'll go back to a bloody Ford.
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head gasket failure on the v6 engines is pretty rare,if your system isn't pressurizing chances are it's ok
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Hi
Sorry I know this is a little off topic but what are "Banjo Bolts"?
:-/
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Hi
Sorry I know this is a little off topic but what are "Banjo Bolts"?
:-/
Bolts used to fit the oil cooler :)
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I have had an oil cooler let go and it never daused any H/G problems. Im sure plenty of others will say the same.
If the car was driven as normal for a long period of time it would undoubtedly overheat regularily which could cause H/G trouble, but if youve been reasonably sensible I dont think it will cause the gaskets to blow imo. ;)
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I have had an oil cooler let go and it never daused any H/G problems. Im sure plenty of others will say the same.
If the car was driven as normal for a long period of time it would undoubtedly overheat regularily which could cause H/G trouble, but if youve been reasonably sensible I dont think it will cause the gaskets to blow imo. ;)
I think poster was trying to suggest neglect would be cause rather than oil cooler itself. Because for the cooler to fail, it has to have had very poor coolant maintenance, which is also a main cause of HG failure. :)
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I have had an oil cooler let go and it never daused any H/G problems. Im sure plenty of others will say the same.
If the car was driven as normal for a long period of time it would undoubtedly overheat regularily which could cause H/G trouble, but if youve been reasonably sensible I dont think it will cause the gaskets to blow imo. ;)
I think poster was trying to suggest neglect would be cause rather than oil cooler itself. Because for the cooler to fail, it has to have had very poor coolant maintenance, which is also a main cause of HG failure. :)
That's the implication, but not a realistic one, I believe this is a 2.6 from previous posts????
So not a 98.
We should consider that poor maintenance can give a very dirty coolant bottle, and not have a failed oil cooler! Suggest a pic posted to confirm...?
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I have had an oil cooler let go and it never daused any H/G problems. Im sure plenty of others will say the same.
If the car was driven as normal for a long period of time it would undoubtedly overheat regularily which could cause H/G trouble, but if youve been reasonably sensible I dont think it will cause the gaskets to blow imo. ;)
I think poster was trying to suggest neglect would be cause rather than oil cooler itself. Because for the cooler to fail, it has to have had very poor coolant maintenance, which is also a main cause of HG failure. :)
That's the implication, but not a realistic one, I believe this is a 2.6 from previous posts????
So not a 98.
We should consider that poor maintenance can give a very dirty coolant bottle, and not have a failed oil cooler! Suggest a pic posted to confirm...?
Too late Chris, I've already bought all the parts and am just about to go outside and get started on the job.
I really appriciate your advice, and I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, (no dissrespect intended :y ), but I've seen plenty of dirty coolant systems in the past. But this one, oh boy, it's really, really bad, hence why I am convinced that I have oil cooler problems.
I poured fresh bright pink coolant in, ran the engine for five minutes and it had turned poo brown.
Anyway, time to get my hands dirty again. I'll report back later when I happen upon the inevitable problems and foul-up's on my part. :-[
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I have had an oil cooler let go and it never daused any H/G problems. Im sure plenty of others will say the same.
If the car was driven as normal for a long period of time it would undoubtedly overheat regularily which could cause H/G trouble, but if youve been reasonably sensible I dont think it will cause the gaskets to blow imo. ;)
I think poster was trying to suggest neglect would be cause rather than oil cooler itself. Because for the cooler to fail, it has to have had very poor coolant maintenance, which is also a main cause of HG failure. :)
That's the implication, but not a realistic one, I believe this is a 2.6 from previous posts????
So not a 98.
We should consider that poor maintenance can give a very dirty coolant bottle, and not have a failed oil cooler! Suggest a pic posted to confirm...?
Too late Chris, I've already bought all the parts and am just about to go outside and get started on the job.
I really appriciate your advice, and I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, (no dissrespect intended :y ), but I've seen plenty of dirty coolant systems in the past. But this one, oh boy, it's really, really bad, hence why I am convinced that I have oil cooler problems.
I poured fresh bright pink coolant in, ran the engine for five minutes and it had turned poo brown.
Anyway, time to get my hands dirty again. I'll report back later when I happen upon the inevitable problems and foul-up's on my part. :-[
No problem at all, as long as your certain. Got yourself a 19mm crows foot?
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Yep. went to Machine Mart earlier and got myself a set, 10mm to 19mm for £14.
As luck would have it I missed the VAT free weekend by........
one day :'(
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At least you have a branch near you. Easy with crows foot mate, steady as she goes and all will be well. You can put that multi ram connector on properly this time. ;)
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Oil drained, oil filter off, and here's a sample of some collant that I've just drained from the rad.
This time yesterday this was bright pink, mixed 50/50 with water. Since then the car has covered maybe 100 metres
The coolant was drained directly into the coffee jar, and the coffee jar was clean and dry prior to drainage.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13171.jpg)
What do you think?
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.... and here's a sample of some collant that I've just drained from the rad. .....
yuk! :-? :-? ;)
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i've seen a lot worse, seen coolant look like hot chocolate!
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And that's pretty dam dirty :o
Having an old Landie that I use for off-roading, I'm pretty used to coolant systems being minging and filthy, but on the Omega it really is something else.
As I'm running short of time getting it back on the road I've just topped it up with fresh coolant which will have to do for the next couple of weeks, but TBH I don't think that flushing the rad, header tank and heater matrix is going to shift much of the grime.
So, a couple of questions. On Omegas with air-con, oil coolers and god knows what else plumbed into the rad, does everything need to be dissconnected before flushing the rad, or just the top and bottom hose?
Also are there any decent cleaning agents that can be used to shift some of this gunk, or are they all snake oils?
Many thanks :y
I was told that 'Truck Wash' (probably from Machine Mart) was used to flush the cooling system in my 2.6 when the oil cooler was changed just before I bought it.
It seems to have done the job. :)
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once you've fixed the cooler, run the engine with a low suds biological washing powder in it .... mix the solution in a bucket first !! Numerous applications eventually cleaned the one I did for a mate ... we were doing it 3 times a night for a week..... run it up to temp with the heater on max chat, leave for 5 minutes, switch off and allow to settle for an hour, drain, repeat.
:(
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Oil drained, oil filter off, and here's a sample of some collant that I've just drained from the rad.
This time yesterday this was bright pink, mixed 50/50 with water. Since then the car has covered maybe 100 metres
The coolant was drained directly into the coffee jar, and the coffee jar was clean and dry prior to drainage.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13171.jpg)
What do you think?
Well, Entwood has had oil cooler failure, and seems to agree.
Was expecting more lumpy oil deposits and signs of Mayo. That just looks dirty to me. Any oil settled on the surface?
When the coolant was changed how much came out/went back in? Could there have been some old coolant in the system to contaminate the new stuff and give that colour?
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Hi
Sorry I know this is a little off topic but what are "Banjo Bolts"?
:-/
Bolts used to fit the oil cooler :)
If I might just add the word "pipes". ie "bolts used to fit the oil cooler pipes"
Alan
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If that coolant has a pretty thin consistency, I am not convinced the oil cooler was the cause of that!
Oil cooler will cause sludge - not discolouration on it's own.
I'd have been inclined to do lots of flushing and then monitor, before condemning the cooler, in the abscence of sludge.
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If that coolant has a pretty thin consistency, I am not convinced the oil cooler was the cause of that!
Oil cooler will cause sludge - not discolouration on it's own.
I'd have been inclined to do lots of flushing and then monitor, before condemning the cooler, in the abscence of sludge.
At this moment in time, as you, Chris and Entwood are speaking, I've got my fingers in my ears saying "la la la la I cant hear you" :P
Too late now though. In my typical impulsive way I've already decieded that the oil cooler is at fault, whether it actually is or not.
Someone has been there before me though. Bucket loads of red and blue thread lock on a lot of the bolts, plus a return of the wonderfull yellow gunk sealant.
Anyway, when it comes to flushing the rad, do I just remove top and bottom hose, or do all the hoses connected up to the rad need removing?
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Its not just the Rad you need to flush, its the whole system. And if it has had oil leaking into it you will need to flush it many times in the coming days/weeks.
Pointless putting any anti freeze in until flushing is complete imo. Although, you will need to keep an eye on night time temperatures, as its still possible to get below zero temps. ;)
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Also - dont forget to flush/reverse flush the heater matrix whilst you are at it.
If you undo the pipe connectors to the matrix (on the engine side of the bulkhead) then - heat up the end of a plastic garden hose (using a hot air gun) until it becomes soft enough to easily press over the end of the pipe with the raised flange. If you do that to both connections then you can easily flush/reverse the matirx by swapping over which hose you connect to the tap - if you see my logic.
That way you also get the matrix (eventually) full of clean water for when you refill the coolant system. If you dont drain/flush the matrix then you will end up with that volume of crud immediately dumped into your newly cleaned cooling system.
HTH - Rob
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Thanks all for the advice.
When I am flushing the rad, is it just a case of top hose off and drain tap open, or do I need to dissconnect all the other pipes that feed into the rad as well?
Cheers.
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I've always undone as much as poss and shoved a hose in
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I've always undone as much as poss and shoved a hose in
Unfortunately won't work for oil contamination as the oil sticks to the surfaces inside.
Open the drain and take the header cap off .. allow as much out as comes, close drain, fill with a pre-mixed low suds biological detergent /water mix, with heater on max hot run engine with header cap off "burping" the pipes to remove air, allow to get pretty warm but watch for overheating .. just in case oil has blocked any waterways.
It is important that the engine gets hot, as a) the thermostat must open to get circulation, b) the detergent works better when hot, switch off and leave to stand for 30 minuts at least.
This further alows the detergent to do its thing and also prevents any "hot spots" caused by residual heat and no coolant, which can happen if you drain straight away. Drain.
Repeat ... at least a dozen times if not more .. :(
When I did my mates 2.2 we were lucky .. his missus had acess to large quantities of commercial strength low suds biological detergent .... :) Still took over a week doing the procedure 3 times a night !!
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And now I'm stuck :(
The union came off easy enough. Suprisingly easily actually, so I don't think that I have sprained the thread, but even after several hours of trying, I cant get the dam thing to screw back in again. :-?
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13172.jpg)
Anyone got any tips, (besides leave such jobs to the pro's).
Cheers :y
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Anyone got any tips, (besides leave such jobs to the pro's).
Cheers :y
and you can't slacken the other end? I know it's stating the obvious but you just have to get the pipe as central as you can ............
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Anyone got any tips, (besides leave such jobs to the pro's).
Cheers :y
and you can't slacken the other end? I know it's stating the obvious but you just have to get the pipe as central as you can ............
Thanks Andy.
The top is end slack, only on a couple of threads, just so that it 'bites'.
It's not going on at an angle at the bottom end, in fact it's about as straight as you could wish, but for some reason the flare nut just isn't biting into the thread, kinda the exact same problem that I had with the flare nut into my brake caliper.
With the flare nut on the brake caliper it must have been torqued up to about 2 million lb/ft. This flare nut on the oil filter housing felt to only be 20-30 lb/ft, maybe even a little less, so I cant see how the thread could have strained or stretched or got damaged.
The other flare nut attatched really easily, This one wont attatch at all. :(
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....The other flare nut attatched really easily, This one wont attatch at all. :(
How about connecting this end first :-/
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....The other flare nut attatched really easily, This one wont attatch at all. :(
How about connecting this end first :-/
Ah..... :-[
To my shame I hadn't actually thought of that. In my defence it was nearly 4am when I called defeat last night.
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I know iam a bit late on this one but looking at the fluid in the coffee jar it doesnt look thick enough to be oil cooler. When mine went back in 08 the oil and water mix in my header tank was like a light brown custard.Also i was told i caught it early because no overheating and only needed 3 flushes to clean out with something called bio cleaner :question
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I know iam a bit late on this one but looking at the fluid in the coffee jar it doesnt look thick enough to be oil cooler. When mine went back in 08 the oil and water mix in my header tank was like a light brown custard.Also i was told i caught it early because no overheating and only needed 3 flushes to clean out with something called bio cleaner :question
Upon reflection Paul, I think you might be right.
The oil cooler has definatley been done before judging by the amount of (what i suspect is) bathroom sealant around it. Also even though my coolant is very dirty, I suspect that is all it actually is, (dirty).
Well, it's done now. well, almost done, just need to finish off re-assembly.
Also taken my header tank off to give it a dam good clean out.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13173.jpg)
I put a splash of Persil in a bucket of boiling water to wash the header tank in.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13175.jpg)
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/TVRMoneypit/SkodaFelicia13174.jpg)
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Also taken my header tank off to give it a dam good clean out. ....
I uysed a bit of industrial strength caustic to clean mine out, which helped, but if I was you I'd get the system cleaned out & just replace the header tank with a nice shiney new one. IIRC they're around £35 :y