Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: amba on 20 February 2011, 08:53:44
-
Sorry but just a quick question re above.
Is it better to have both sides off the ground when replacing springs or should it be ok with one side at a time.
Reason I ask is if car is on stands..you need a jack under each both rear hubs to support and also another jack under diff to allow to be dropped slightly.
That means I will need 3, plus several axle stands .Seems a lot of equipment which I will struggle to source....or am I missing something in the process.
-
Someone suggested a different method on here recently, that didnt involve dropping the diff. Im fairly sure you can raise one side at a time if you do it as was suggested.
-
Remember reading somebody just jacked one side..removed bottom shocker bolt and then "wedged a bar under trailling arm to create gap to remove and then replace spring".Think they also needed somebody to stand!!!on the bar to apply extra force.
Not the way I intend doing it as it sounds fraut with potential issues let alone saftey .
My concern was the ammount of lifting and supporting bits required if the entire rear was lifted..can see how this would not apply with a garage poster ramp.
-
Remember reading somebody just jacked one side..removed bottom shocker bolt and then "wedged a bar under trailling arm to create gap to remove and then replace spring".Think they also needed somebody to stand!!!on the bar to apply extra force.
Not the way I intend doing it as it sounds fraut with potential issues let alone saftey .
My concern was the ammount of lifting and supporting bits required if the entire rear was lifted..can see how this would not apply with a garage poster ramp.
I wouldnt worry about using a bar, it is common practice when working on suspension systems.
But if you dont like the idea, another member suggested that if you use a spring compressor you needn't bother with the bar.
-
Yes spring compressor is the route I will be going down.....just my question is regarding the usage and positioning of axle stands and jacks.
Car supported on stands...just both sides or one ?
How many jacks required ?
-
See the guide in mainatanace, two stands one jack required. Just to add this procedure is made easier by unhooking the exhaust allowing the dif to drop a lttle further, but only do this if the exhaust is in good nic, the usual rusty section by the back box may fail if stressed.
Dropping the diff sounds drastic but it really isnt, in essence its four bolts, plus brake pipes and sensor unhooking to make sure nothing gets damaged, go the tested route imo.
-
had to use spring compressors on the front springs, I would not use them on the rear, its dead easy to drop the diff, and nice and easy to pop those new springs in.
Guide here works well :y
-
I've changed the springs using a bar (safer with 2 people) and with spring compressors (pain in the ar*e as very little room) last time I used the standard wheel jack, it fits onto the body seam under the wheel arch and sits nicely on top of the suspension arm, a few tries to get the right place then it will wind down easily :y and its much safer and easier to do it this way. I have never dropped the diff to change springs. :)
-
I've changed the springs using a bar (safer with 2 people) and with spring compressors (pain in the ar*e as very little room) last time I used the standard wheel jack, it fits onto the body seam under the wheel arch and sits nicely on top of the suspension arm, a few tries to get the right place then it will wind down easily :y and its much safer and easier to do it this way. I have never dropped the diff to change springs. :)
... And therefor cant comment on which easier!
Sorry to be blunt but you see my point. Dropping the dif is far easier, safer and easily done with one pearson.
Dropping the diff is a slightly misleading discription to be fiar, it actually involves dropping the whole rear of the subframe. This is only attached by two dif blocks by the diff and the two bolts through the rear sub frame bushes. Just remove the dif blocks and the rear of the subframe hinges down by releasing the jack. Its an hours work iirc!
Plus, its all very well posting alternative procedures etc, but remember there differant levels of experience to take into account.
Follow the guide, its step by step, all you have ro do is follow it.
-
Far easier than dropping the diff, lift car, remove wheel, remove shock absorber, wind down suspension arm. Simples 20 minutes max. :D
As you say different levels of experience, I agree but would you want somebody with little experience dropping the rear subframe, messing with brake pipes etc. I think not. I've prob changed over 50 springs for a local taxi firm and this is by far the easiest, quickest and safest if you dont have a ramp to use.
-
Far easier than dropping the diff, lift car, remove wheel, remove shock absorber, wind down suspension arm. Simples 20 minutes max. :D
As you say different levels of experience, I agree but would you want somebody with little experience dropping the rear subframe, messing with brake pipes etc. I think not. I've prob changed over 50 springs for a local taxi firm and this is by far the easiest, quickest and safest if you dont have a ramp to use.
Post a guide then. Lets see!
-
The standard omega wheel jack will fit over the body seam under the wheel arch and you can wind down the suspension arm, it really is that simple.
If somebody needs a guide to do that then they really shouldnt be allowed to take the wheel off. ;)
As for safety, not getting under the car at all has to be the safest for any job.
next time I change one i'll post a pic of the jack in situ :y
-
For those thinking of compressors, there isn't really room to get 3 compressors conveniently. Its easier, as others said, to drop the rear subframe, which is quick and easy.
-
Thanks all for several options.
I am sure I will sort it now,as have a plan A/B/C .
A...as per guide lowering unbolted diff
B...using spring compressors
C..jack in wheel arch to push trailing arm down.
Probably be a combination in part of all 3,but many thanks for advise.
-
Well have replaced both rear s/l shocks and springs today and though I would just add some comments I have regarding the 3 options of fitting the rear springs.
A..by far the easiest route and don,t be put of by lowering rear diff.It is very straight forward and mine went back in the exact same place as removed.Did still have a bit of a struggle getting new springs onto location point at base so ended up using a spring compressor just to reduce spring length slightly to get bottom pigtail over upstand on base rubber cap.
B..did try this to start but no where to succesfully locate spring compressor and despite winding spring as tight as I could get it still wouldnt come out so resorted to plan A
C...this method is very dubious and I wouldn,t recommend it at all.The jack wants to slide along the ridge in the top of the arch and how the hell do you keep it still and stable on the curved trailing arm.When I got the arm to go down the jack sprung out of its position and I ended up starting again.This would not be the method I would recommend,as feel it could also be quite dangerous if the jack hit you,apart from the creased metal on the inner wing.
Plan A is the way forward ,albeit in my case with a little help from a spring compressor.
Driving transformation is now quite dramatic and forgot what it was like to have rear suspension .Car now handles nicely and pleasant ride restored.
Next job this week is both rear donut bushes so see how that goes.
-
Good work Amba :y nice and methodical, one step at a time :y
-
Thanks,Chris...not sure the donuts will as straight forward though.
Lets hope they just fall out as looking at them they seem to be totally shot.
Would it be wise just lifting 1 side at a time to do them ? as sure I read somebody did them with the wheels still on /just jacked up and supported behind triangle plate.
-
Imo...
Jack on to stand placed on the chassis rail by exhaust hanger, get the car as high as reasonably possible, raising the self levelling on elites saves a bit of work/jacking.
Once on stand replace the jack under the subframe arm and lift so as much of the cars weight is holding the arm still. Idea is to pin it still so it doesnt move.
Remove bolts to triagular plate and center of bush.
Note the orientation of the old bush.
Remove bush. Lever out with claw hammer, pull out with small baring puller, or however you want to do it, doesnt matter how.
fitting depends on what make bush you have, febi are a looser fit and can be smacked in with a big bat and a bit of spit to help the bush slide in. Lemforder are tighter and may need another jack to press it in as far as pos. You may find it wont go in the last 5mill or so, so then fit the bush bolt and tighten to pull ot in the rest of the way. Give the bush rim a dam good smack with a hammer all round to make sure while its pulled in with the bolt.
Job done, remove bolt, refit plate and bolts to correct torque settings, drop the car and away you go. :y
-
Started on O/S and after a bit of a battle trying to get axle stand positioned correctly.
Old bush came out much easier than had expected although did take some far effort.Had thought the condition would be worse that it was..only minor splitting internally and around the centre metal tube.Unsure if it is original 1998 but has a VX part number on it so assume it must be.
Biggest issue is getting the new Lemforder one back in.Have had a small trolley jack and block of wood on the metal centere shaft now for almost 30 mins and it hasn,t budged a mm further in.Have hit the hell out of it and still wont budge and cannot get the long centre bolt in as too far away from the rear captive nut.
Will go and give it some more grief but had expected removal to be worse than replacement.
Will keep you posted !!
-
All now sorted...resorted to a small trolley jack with wood block and kept pushing at each of the three cut outs and it eventually poppped in place.
Now on to nearside but atleast I now know what I am doing,??
2 hours 15 mins for 1 side and thats a novice..quite impressed if I say so myself
-
It's always a bugger the first time you do it, you don't know which bits are going to be hard, or whether a certain part should be hard. I lay on my back in utter ruin trying to get the first one out. It took three hours and no end of levering and banging and in the end, grinding!
Eventually it came out and the next side was a sinch as i knew exactly which way to tackle it. Good work! :y
-
Thanks for words of inspiration,Neil.
In truth the n/s was slightly easier as I now knew the plan..It took me just on 2 hours and spent the last hour clearing up and trying to work out why my new suspension was not sitting level,which I think I have also found the answer to...so all in all a fair day..well 5 hours,so time for a shower then go to work.
-
I read the tail of the spring needs to face the rear of car, I may have misunderstood that and have done what it said in the haynes book of lies, it says the face of the tail should face the rear, does it make much difference if the face of the springs are facing the rear? I dont really feel like doing it again, it was a pain in the rear but had to be done as the whole bottom of the spring was missing, it seems to drive ok now
-
I followed the details as supplied by MarkDTM in the maintenance guide and he advised the top pigtail should face the REAR of the car.
When dismantled I found that the top rubber mounting mat has a groove in the rubber to allow for the top of the spring and this had a stop in it .This in effect gives a point to allow the pigtail to sit against and I then put a small blob of white paint half way down the spring to allow me to see when I had the correct position .
The real issues I had were related to the air valves on the self leveling shocks,and the small rubber washer that sits inside the plastic cap.This appears to perish and disintegrates when you remove it..(well it did in my case)and then you cannot reseal the valve.
I made a small rubber washer from a peice of thin rubber tube I found and cut it thin and fitted it inside the valve cap.This then made a perfect seal and the air is retained in the shock when the pump kicks in.
My car now sits totally level and measures 665mm from level ground through centre vertical of wheel to arch.
Jobs a good,n and a nice smooth ride again..deep joy .
-
Just changed a spring in 12 minutes, jack up car,axle stand, remove wheel, remove bottom shock bolt, use the standard omega jack to wind down the supension arm, put spring in. Simple.
There is no quicker, safer or easier way to do this job.
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx189/russbusa/27022011272.jpg
As you can see from the photo the spring is loose and uncompressed and goes in easily. ;D ;D ;D put the jack in the right place and it will not slip, also there is a flat part on the arm it is not all curved.
-
Fair play Russ and thanks for the picture .
I couldn,t get the jack base plate to stop moving along the arm as I tightened it up and also found the top (white plastic part of the jack)had to sit vertical to be secured on the metal ridge..yours looks like it is at an angle.
Totally understand the logic applied and the principle was sound,it is just I couldn,t get it to secure that way..only few extra bolts to drop the diff.
-
What suits someone best is the best method to use I guess :)
That jack is for a 2003 model the earlier 1998 jack I have has a metal end where the nylon block is on the later one. (the nylon block turned and it then gripped the seam without damage)
I've changed more springs than I want to remember and personally find this by far the easiest :)