Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:02:41

Title: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:02:41
The Elite, with less than 60k on the clock, was wishbone bushes that are knackered. Both front and rear bushes on one of the wishbones - don't often see the vertical one fail :o

So whats the current view on replacement?


I've only ever had genuine on the MV6 - the last set MDTM pressed in a new set of GM bushes into my existing wishbones.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Jimbob on 04 May 2011, 08:05:01
there is currently no known good 'cheapy' - used to be the old buypartsby ones.
Lemforders - Jury is still out as to whether they are worth the money.
Genuine - remortgage.


or the ebay cheapy route - and polybush before fitting.  :y


(I went Lemforder, and will polybush when required)
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Omegatoy on 04 May 2011, 08:06:44
only my persoanl view, but i used unipart wishbones on the old faithful that was 5 year and over 54k ago and they are still in good condition!! cost was i think 62 quid the pair with my discount? mind you not even sure unipart at cowley is still there!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 May 2011, 08:07:09
Re-bush the rears and poly the fronts

Lemforders not worth the money in my opinion
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:07:21
Quote
there is currently no known good 'cheapy' - used to be the old buypartsby ones.
Lemforders - Jury is still out as to whether they are worth the money.
Genuine - remortgage.


or the ebay cheapy route - and polybush before fitting.  :y


(I went Lemforder, and will polybush when required)
Was toying with Lemforders, then at some stage before the Lemforders are knackered, polybush the GMs I've taken out, and use when required.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:08:36
Quote
Re-bush the rears and poly the fronts

Lemforders not worth the money in my opinion
Did your press ever get rebuilt after its destruction at Newent?
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: joff on 04 May 2011, 08:13:18
I was thinking of getting a set of old one's and poly bushing and a paint job, so when mine go on the Elite i have a set on standby what do you think :-/
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 May 2011, 08:17:05
Quote
Quote
Re-bush the rears and poly the fronts

Lemforders not worth the money in my opinion
Did your press ever get rebuilt after its destruction at Newent?

I have access to a press (50 ton)
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:21:39
Quote
Quote
Quote
Re-bush the rears and poly the fronts

Lemforders not worth the money in my opinion
Did your press ever get rebuilt after its destruction at Newent?

I have access to a press (50 ton)
Hmmm, interesting :D

Given that I can guess the location, is it something I'd have to bring the wishbones up on their own, rather than the entire car? If so, is it something that could be done there and then, as I don't like the idea of the car on axle stands for days, as I suspect (esp in this weather), they'd sink pretty rapidly into my driveway ;D
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 May 2011, 08:22:57
We can remove the wishbones at yours or here.

I have access to it at any time (I have keys).
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:37:18
Quote
We can remove the wishbones at yours or here.

I have access to it at any time (I have keys).
I can feel a plan forming :y


Does anyone have a recommended supplier for these bushes?

MDTM, you suggest just do the horizontal (front), and use normal for the vertical (rear). Vauxhall?
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 May 2011, 08:42:40
Think I have a set of rears you can have, might be Febi ones.

But Poly for the fronts.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:48:01
These?

http://www.dcperformance.co.uk/cheap/397852/opel/powerflex-poly-bushes/pff80-902.html
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: 2woody on 04 May 2011, 08:50:06
that's odd - i must have changed over a hundred of the vertical ones in my time, but haven't seen a horizontal one fail yet.

genuine GM for the vertical one every time, and I guess I'd do the same for the horizontal one if I ever needed it.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:52:23
Quote
that's odd - i must have changed over a hundred of the vertical ones in my time, but haven't seen a horizontal one fail yet.

genuine GM for the vertical one every time, and I guess I'd do the same for the horizontal one if I ever needed it.
:o - not often I don't see a knackered front horizontal one :o
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 08:54:42
Quote
only my persoanl view, but i used unipart wishbones on the old faithful that was 5 year and over 54k ago and they are still in good condition!! cost was i think 62 quid the pair with my discount? mind you not even sure unipart at cowley is still there!!!! ;D
Yeah, I'm not sure either, I rarely go up that road ;D. BMW have probably bought it anyway, as they are buying up and getting planning permission all around their site.

Prices change a lot in 5 years - GM ones were reasonable back then ;D
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 May 2011, 09:06:35
Quote
These?

http://www.dcperformance.co.uk/cheap/397852/opel/powerflex-poly-bushes/pff80-902.html

Yup.  :y
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 09:30:50
Quote
Quote
These?

http://www.dcperformance.co.uk/cheap/397852/opel/powerflex-poly-bushes/pff80-902.html

Yup.  :y
Ordered :y

Can you have a gander if you have any rears, and let me know, else I'll have to get them ordered as well...
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 May 2011, 09:37:34
99% sure I do have and 50% sure I know where they are!  ;D
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 May 2011, 09:46:28
Quote
99% sure I do have and 50% sure I know where they are!  ;D
LOL - sounds like my garage ;D
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 May 2011, 12:15:08
I was happy with the eBay cheapies I stuck on mine, lasted about 18 months (35k) and were only just starting to go (and I mean, only just!) when I replaced them with another set. But this second set (same supplier) aren't as good and are shot already after just 10 months :o :o

Mind you, the guy who supplied them has said he'll send me a replacement set FOC if I return the old ones after fitting. Intention was to Poly them before fitting but there may be a change to that plan now :-X :-X Although I dare say I'll still need a new set of 'bones ;)
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Bent valve on 04 May 2011, 22:15:21
I fitted a pair of Lemforder wishbones to mine recently, and to be honest I wasnt too impressed with the quality.
The front bushes were made by Boge and appeared to be very soft and pliable. I tightened the front bolts up over a pit with the wheels on the ground and afterwards I had my helper drive the car forward and backwards whilst I was still in the pit, and I was suprised to see how much movement there was in the wishbones as the car set off from rest, they must have splayed out 8mm each side and gave the impression that the bushes were made from jelly  :-? add to that the fact that one of the steering bump stops fell out as I was VERY lightly tapping the underside of the wishbone when locating the ball joint, means I wouldnt buy another set and I will probably polybush these when the front bushes expire (probably quite soon) :(
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: o-meg-a on 05 May 2011, 01:03:38
When fitting poly bushes Is it definitely necessary to need such a large press?
Is there no way of doing it at home?

And do you grease the bushes before fitting, or are you fitting them dry?
I would have thought that once greased, you should be able to slide in a bush with a large mounted vice?

Am i terribly mistaken? lol
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Lazydocker on 05 May 2011, 08:41:01
Quote
When fitting poly bushes Is it definitely necessary to need such a large press?
Is there no way of doing it at home?

And do you grease the bushes before fitting, or are you fitting them dry?
I would have thought that once greased, you should be able to slide in a bush with a large mounted vice?

Am i terribly mistaken? lol

Don't need a press at all for Poly Bushes AFAIK ;) ;)
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Jimbob on 05 May 2011, 08:46:07
Yes poly can slide in.

the other bushes TheBoy is talking about do need a press though, but these dont often fail.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: feeutfo on 05 May 2011, 12:40:48
Quote
I fitted a pair of Lemforder wishbones to mine recently, and to be honest I wasnt too impressed with the quality.
The front bushes were made by Boge and appeared to be very soft and pliable. I tightened the front bolts up over a pit with the wheels on the ground and afterwards I had my helper drive the car forward and backwards whilst I was still in the pit, and I was suprised to see how much movement there was in the wishbones as the car set off from rest, they must have splayed out 8mm each side and gave the impression that the bushes were made from jelly  :-? add to that the fact that one of the steering bump stops fell out as I was VERY lightly tapping the underside of the wishbone when locating the ball joint, means I wouldnt buy another set and I will probably polybush these when the front bushes expire (probably quite soon) :(
Boge bushes in Lemforder wishbones? I would suggest they aren't LF bones. Where did you get them?

Lemforder make just about every form of bush you can imagine. Can't see why they would fit boge bushes in thier own products? The bush play when new should be minimal. Sumat wrong there ...  :(
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 May 2011, 16:26:50
Because SACHS, LEMFÖRDER and BOGE are all part of ZF Parts
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 May 2011, 16:44:31
Weren't the OE ones Boge?
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Bent valve on 05 May 2011, 18:37:28
Quote
Quote
I fitted a pair of Lemforder wishbones to mine recently, and to be honest I wasnt too impressed with the quality.
The front bushes were made by Boge and appeared to be very soft and pliable. I tightened the front bolts up over a pit with the wheels on the ground and afterwards I had my helper drive the car forward and backwards whilst I was still in the pit, and I was suprised to see how much movement there was in the wishbones as the car set off from rest, they must have splayed out 8mm each side and gave the impression that the bushes were made from jelly  :-? add to that the fact that one of the steering bump stops fell out as I was VERY lightly tapping the underside of the wishbone when locating the ball joint, means I wouldnt buy another set and I will probably polybush these when the front bushes expire (probably quite soon) :(
Boge bushes in Lemforder wishbones? I would suggest they aren't LF bones. Where did you get them?

Lemforder make just about every form of bush you can imagine. Can't see why they would fit boge bushes in thier own products? The bush play when new should be minimal. Sumat wrong there ...  :(
Got em from All german car parts in a sealed Lemforder bag with 'Made in Turkey' printed on it.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 05 May 2011, 18:49:50
Quote
Re-bush the rears and poly the fronts

Lemforders not worth the money in my opinion


So glad you have said that Master... The amount of people I kept telling they aren't the genuine ones is untrue, they would not have it  :-?
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Bent valve on 05 May 2011, 18:54:42
Quote
Quote
Re-bush the rears and poly the fronts

Lemforders not worth the money in my opinion


So glad you have said that Master... The amount of people I kept telling they aren't the genuine ones is untrue, they would not have it  :-?
I wish you had voiced your concerns on here before I parted with me cash :'(
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Abiton on 05 May 2011, 19:22:01
The only place I'm ever going to buy any further wishbone-related bits is andyc, as detailed in here:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280919863

Hopefully though the ones I've got on, recently rebushed with genuine bushes (without a press), will outlast the rest of the car now (shouldn't be more than a year I reckon).

To pre-empt the question, "how do you fit them without a press:

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/EZ_Pete/100_04862.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/EZ_Pete/100_0492.jpg)

Plenty of grease on the studding, plenty of elbow grease, bit of care.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 May 2011, 20:32:02
Quote
Quote
Re-bush the rears and poly the fronts

Lemforders not worth the money in my opinion


So glad you have said that Master... The amount of people I kept telling they aren't the genuine ones is untrue, they would not have it  :-?
Thats probably because the likes of those stupid idiots at Autovaux claim it is...
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Entwood on 05 May 2011, 20:37:47
Quote
The only place I'm ever going to buy any further wishbone-related bits is andyc, as detailed in here:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280919863

Hopefully though the ones I've got on, recently rebushed with genuine bushes (without a press), will outlast the rest of the car now (shouldn't be more than a year I reckon).

To pre-empt the question, "how do you fit them without a press:

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/EZ_Pete/100_04862.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/EZ_Pete/100_0492.jpg)

Plenty of grease on the studding, plenty of elbow grease, bit of care.

Very interesting ... where did you get the machined blocks from ?? and how much ???

I have an idea for making OOF a small amount of "running money" ..... :)
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Abiton on 05 May 2011, 21:14:22
Quote
Quote
The only place I'm ever going to buy any further wishbone-related bits is andyc, as detailed in here:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280919863

Hopefully though the ones I've got on, recently rebushed with genuine bushes (without a press), will outlast the rest of the car now (shouldn't be more than a year I reckon).

To pre-empt the question, "how do you fit them without a press:

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/EZ_Pete/100_04862.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/EZ_Pete/100_0492.jpg)

Plenty of grease on the studding, plenty of elbow grease, bit of care.

Very interesting ... where did you get the machined blocks from ?? and how much ???
I have an idea for making OOF a small amount of "running money" ..... :)

A guy I work with turned out the recesses for me, think I gave him a tenner or something.  I 'adjusted' one of them (crudely) a bit on the mill at work to fit, you can see my inelegant work on the right-hand one.

I'm perfectly happy to lend out this set-up to anyone who wants to give it a try.  Postage costs plus a (fully returnable) deposit to cover damage/loss, I suppose.
Also more than happy to donate them to OOF, but I doubt anyone in the admin/mod team particularly wants to administer a loan scheme???  :-/
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: feeutfo on 05 May 2011, 22:27:55
Pressing bushes previously, rears only needed little over a ton of pressure consistently ime.  :y

Fronts needed between 5 and 10 tons depending on fit.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: o-meg-a on 05 May 2011, 22:53:03
Quote
Pressing bushes previously, rears only needed little over a ton of pressure consistently ime.  :y

Fronts needed between 5 and 10 tons depending on fit.

Standard bushes now i take it? not poly?
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: feeutfo on 05 May 2011, 22:54:52
Quote
Because SACHS, LEMFÖRDER and BOGE are all part of ZF Parts
Oh yeah.

These are the ones cut out of the original wishbones of my current car. 60k old.  :-[
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/91e4b7d9.jpg)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/1bae1934.jpg)
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: feeutfo on 05 May 2011, 23:08:26
Quote
Quote
Pressing bushes previously, rears only needed little over a ton of pressure consistently ime.  :y

Fronts needed between 5 and 10 tons depending on fit.

Standard bushes now i take it? not poly?
Yep. Stock, and BMW m3/5 upper(?) control arm. (never fitted Polly yet personally.) But seems the way to go, ESP. having seen the consistency of Shakeng s front roll bar bushes, and driven his Polly'd TD. No sign of any harshness at all. More precise steering, although TB says the TD is more "pointy"....  Should add I have not driven a stock TD to make a direct comparison, but Shak seems well happy.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Entwood on 05 May 2011, 23:12:12
Quote
Quote
Quote
The only place I'm ever going to buy any further wishbone-related bits is andyc, as detailed in here:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280919863

Hopefully though the ones I've got on, recently rebushed with genuine bushes (without a press), will outlast the rest of the car now (shouldn't be more than a year I reckon).

To pre-empt the question, "how do you fit them without a press:

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/EZ_Pete/100_04862.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/EZ_Pete/100_0492.jpg)

Plenty of grease on the studding, plenty of elbow grease, bit of care.

Very interesting ... where did you get the machined blocks from ?? and how much ???
I have an idea for making OOF a small amount of "running money" ..... :)

A guy I work with turned out the recesses for me, think I gave him a tenner or something.  I 'adjusted' one of them (crudely) a bit on the mill at work to fit, you can see my inelegant work on the right-hand one.

I'm perfectly happy to lend out this set-up to anyone who wants to give it a try.  Postage costs plus a (fully returnable) deposit to cover damage/loss, I suppose.
Also more than happy to donate them to OOF, but I doubt anyone in the admin/mod team particularly wants to administer a loan scheme???  :-/


Perhaps not ... but maybe someone outside the mod/admin team could do so, and send the money onwards ?? 

It's been an idea of mine for a while with the V6 cam kit, maybe the "pressing tools" and any other infrequently used items (eg, modified header tank cap) could become part of an "OOF loan" system to help raise funds to support the running of the forum ???

Obviously items would have to be pretty light to avoid massive postal costs adn some sort of deposit/post count rules setup, but at say £5 - £10 a time hire fee it could make a small contribution to the running costs ??






No idea whats happened to the quote system there ...  looks fine on edit .. but comes out wierd !!
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 06 May 2011, 12:08:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
Pressing bushes previously, rears only needed little over a ton of pressure consistently ime.  :y

Fronts needed between 5 and 10 tons depending on fit.

Standard bushes now i take it? not poly?
Yep. Stock, and BMW m3/5 upper(?) control arm. (never fitted Polly yet personally.) But seems the way to go, ESP. having seen the consistency of Shakeng s front roll bar bushes, and driven his Polly'd TD. No sign of any harshness at all. More precise steering, although TB says the TD is more "pointy"....  Should add I have not driven a stock TD to make a direct comparison, but Shak seems well happy.

I just wonder if the rear bush takes more punishment when the front is poly'ed?

Well, I know it will, but will it lead to rear bush failure being a PITA just like the front bush was? :-/
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 May 2011, 13:12:35
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Pressing bushes previously, rears only needed little over a ton of pressure consistently ime.  :y

Fronts needed between 5 and 10 tons depending on fit.

Standard bushes now i take it? not poly?
Yep. Stock, and BMW m3/5 upper(?) control arm. (never fitted Polly yet personally.) But seems the way to go, ESP. having seen the consistency of Shakeng s front roll bar bushes, and driven his Polly'd TD. No sign of any harshness at all. More precise steering, although TB says the TD is more "pointy"....  Should add I have not driven a stock TD to make a direct comparison, but Shak seems well happy.

I just wonder if the rear bush takes more punishment when the front is poly'ed?

Well, I know it will, but will it lead to rear bush failure being a PITA just like the front bush was? :-/

I doubt it will, the polybushes are not really any harder.

I think the thing that does the rear bushes is suspension travel TBH and not so much the horizontal deflection
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Xenon on 08 May 2011, 12:14:57
Fella here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300296371/15 has made some poly vertical bushes.
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: Xenon on 08 May 2011, 22:45:14
Well I thought it was interesting, never mind :)
Title: Re: Current view on which wishbones?
Post by: o-meg-a on 09 May 2011, 01:05:07
Yeah i read this a while back, i wish i could do stuff like this lol