Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Varche on 27 May 2011, 21:25:01
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Getting quite dispondent about this.
Had the car six months. First five used hardly any water or oil. The other car lost water and that was part down to heater matrix and part down to suspected RH bank head gasket (or pipe at the back). I am a dab hand at changing hbv for no end result.
Back to current car. It has been getting warmer and so have been using the climate air con (well fan as it needs regassing). I assumed that something in using air con was responsible for the problem. After a short journey of 4 miles the other day I had a great big puddle (pint?) under rear of engine. Assumed it wasn't just condensate. Just done 150 miles today with air con off. No water loss. Got back home and have had air con going , heat, fan, driven about- nothing. No drops and the level hasn't gone down. Will recheck in the morning. I have the scuttle off and will put a different hbv on in the morning.
It has always run cooler than my other car but I didn't think much of that. Now it seems to run the same - maybe 27deg C ambient causes that?
So what can be causing losses of water varying from a pint, two pints and nothing on similar one hour, 40 mile journeys.?
My neighbours Lada Riva is looking mighty tempting. :y In fact so is his mule ;D ;D
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.... I assumed that something in using air con was responsible for the problem. After a short journey of 4 miles the other day I had a great big puddle (pint?) under rear of engine. Assumed it wasn't just condensate. Just done 150 miles today with air con off. No water loss. ....
that's how my car was when the heater by-pass failed.
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Hbv. Ac diverts the flow through it. Poxy thing. Odds on IMO. :y
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Hmm, this sounding like the problem I have started to get. The coolant warning message popped up yeterday when I first started the car up. Checked the level in the expansion tank and saw that the water was below the sensor so I topped it up. This morning the warning came back. Topped the water up again and drove across town, no more than 3 miles. Bang, the warning is back on and the level has dropped considerably. Cant find any split pipes, no teltale puddles under the car. I have no idea where the water is going. Any suggestions as to what to check/look for in the engine bay?
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Hmm, this sounding like the problem I have started to get. The coolant warning message popped up yeterday when I first started the car up. Checked the level in the expansion tank and saw that the water was below the sensor so I topped it up. This morning the warning came back. Topped the water up again and drove across town, no more than 3 miles. Bang, the warning is back on and the level has dropped considerably. Cant find any split pipes, no teltale puddles under the car. I have no idea where the water is going. Any suggestions as to what to check/look for in the engine bay?
This is the guide for the V6s HBV but I believe the 4 cylinder cars are similar. (God knows why I thought it was a 4 pot :-? ;D)
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1193594464
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Cpt Slower - One leak I had was the heater matrix itself. damp patches in footwell and more tellingly misted up windscreen inside. There are loads of other places including in the engine V, a pipe down the back of the block near the DIS pack and core plug again down the back of the engine on your V6. Unlikely to be a head gasket but apparently some 98 cars(I believe )could have head gasket failure on the rear back corner. Maybe that is what mine had in the end. I will never know!
Your first port of call is to look at the hbv and the rubber pipes connecting it.
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Had a look at that link Andy and got this "This field only accepts numbers from 0-9 Thread ID: '1193594464 '
Not sure what it means.
hbv? , sorry varche, what is that?
Appologies if i'm making this hard work gents. :-[
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Had a look at that link Andy and got this "This field only accepts numbers from 0-9 Thread ID: '1193594464 '
Not sure what it means.
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It's a glich somewhere ...... :-/ :-/ :-/
this is what I meant to post .... http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1193594464
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hbv = heaterr bypass valve. Looks like a star trek space craft (though obviously a lot smaller) black. has three pipes carrying water. the valve is operated by vacuum like most everything else on the Omega. The vacuum pipe plugs into the top. GM part number is 90 566 947. Get agenuine one if yours id bust. Cost about 30 of your sterlings. aftermarket on Ebay much cheaper but don't last. :y
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Thanks Andy, I've had a look at the "how to" and will have a go once the sun returns, hopefully that'll be tomorrow ;D
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Varche, Is it going to be blatently obvious if the hbv is caput?
How does the hbv being broken/faulty cause the loss of water?
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Varche, Is it going to be blatently obvious if the hbv is caput?
How does the hbv being broken/faulty cause the loss of water?
The valve opens & closes using vacuum via a diaphragm inside it. When the diaphragm wears/perishes, it leaks coolant. Watch the valve as the heating is altered from cold to hot and/or the air con is switched on or off. If it's leaking, the above should show it up. :y :y
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Sadly no it isn't obvious when you look at it off the car other than it may have brown staining on part of the body. With luck when you put the climate/air con through its various stages heat, cool, screen, off you will get water leaking out. Don't confuse it with condensate off the air con "fridge". That is normal and leaves drops under the car.
Why do they fail. Pretty poor design in my view. The valve actuation is done by vacuum and that operates a diaphram which allows water to go through the other pipe. I believe that the rubber diaphram fails. If only Heineken made diaphrams. ;D
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Thinking about this, I turned the aircon on on thursday for the first time in probably a month and fiddled with the temp settings, starting with hi and then seeing how cold the system would go. The water loss was first noticed on Friday. Perhaps that was enough to finish the hbv off if it was already in a fragile state.
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Thinking about this, I turned the aircon on on thursday for the first time in probably a month and fiddled with the temp settings, starting with hi and then seeing how cold the system would go. The water loss was first noticed on Friday. Perhaps that was enough to finish the hbv off if it was already in a fragile state.
Sounds like you've identified your problem. ;) ;) ;) ;) Replacement isn't difficult, just take your time & be methodical, you should have it done in a couple of hours (an hour with practice ;))
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an hour with practice
or even less with the supersize longnose pliers that i have :P :P
cost me a whole quid at a car boot and ideal for working in the limited space vauxhall insanely call an engine bay :y
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an hour with practice
or even less with the supersize longnose pliers that i have :P :P ......
:P :P :P :P :P ;)
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Right, a plan of action has been made. Thanks for your help and advice, not forgetting to your mention patience :y. Got to admit, I was starting to feel quite negative about buying the old girl. I'll post the results once the hbv has been checked/replaced.
Going to turn in now, especialy as i've been informed by the boss that she wants the bathroom re-tiled tomorrow :(
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Evening all, right first, my appologies for not replying earlier, the bathroom took all sodding bank holiday weekend >:(. I've taken the various parts off the car to allow me access to what I believe to be the hbv this evening. It looks similar to the one in the "how to" guide but seems to be mounted at a different angle. Topped up the expansion bottle again and ran the engine until it reached its normal temp. switched on the blowers & aircon. water started to drip (very slowly) from what I would describe as a "sump" and 2 silver metal pipes that sit just in front of the engine bay/cabin wall. The water is cold, so would this be condensation from the fridge unit? Cant see any signs of water leaking from the hbv area :-/
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It's done, it's fixed!!! Bought the new hbv from Vauxhall main dealer this morning, £40 with vat and fitted it this afternoon. It was a bit fiddly, but i think thats more to do with having big hands. The hose clips were a real pain to remove and refit and I found that using mole grips made the job easier. Long nosed pliers kept slipping off the clips when trying to compress them. All in all it took a tad over an hour and a half. No more disappearing water! ;D
Thanks to all those that posted suggestions and especialy Varche & Andy B for putting up with the stupid questions :y I would like to add that when I posted yesterday, I was looking at the wrong part :-[, not sure what that bit does, but i'm glad that i didn't remove it before consulting the "how to" guide and purchasing the right part.
Thanks again.
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It's done, it's fixed!!! ...
Sorted! :y :y :y
And you saved yourself an hour or so labour costs! ;) ;)
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Glad you are sorted.
I found when I first joined the forum, I just needed a few pointers and a bit of confidence. In no time you will be helping out newcomers. Long live OOF. :y
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guys ,with my car if i run it without the heater on full,it looses all its coolant,heater on full blows out hot air and no leakthis also drops the temp gauge,could the thermostat and or the hbv be faulty??? trying to get an online diagnosise as im skint and dont want to pay out money for a mechanic to look at it...any owners/mechanics live near norwich ??? thanks phil..
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guys ,with my car if i run it without the heater on full,it looses all its coolant,heater on full blows out hot air and no leakthis also drops the temp gauge,could the thermostat and or the hbv be faulty??? trying to get an online diagnosise as im skint and dont want to pay out money for a mechanic to look at it...any owners/mechanics live near norwich ??? thanks phil..
The HBV is always prime suspect when you have intermittent water loss, especially if heater or a/c settings make a difference. Try to watch the valve as the heater is altered.
Although there are many posts here about how much a PITA changing it is, it's not really that bad - Honest! :y :y
Just buy yourself a box of plasters before you start, you'll probably need it. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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guys ,with my car if i run it without the heater on full,it looses all its coolant,heater on full blows out hot air and no leakthis also drops the temp gauge,could the thermostat and or the hbv be faulty??? trying to get an online diagnosise as im skint and dont want to pay out money for a mechanic to look at it...any owners/mechanics live near norwich ??? thanks phil..
The HBV is always prime suspect when you have intermittent water loss, especially if heater or a/c settings make a difference. Try to watch the valve as the heater is altered.
Although there are many posts here about how much a PITA changing it is, it's not really that bad - Honest! :y :y
Just buy yourself a box of plasters before you start, you'll probably need it. ;D ;D ;D ;D
us paramedics get plasters free ;D ;D ;D ;D
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us paramedics get plasters free ;D ;D ;D ;D
free issue at work too, but mine only come as bright blue, food grade, metal detectable :y :y