Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Ross on 31 January 2008, 10:17:48

Title: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Ross on 31 January 2008, 10:17:48
I can't work out why this is an 03 plate?(http://pictures.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media?id=650177670)
(http://pictures.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media?id=650177707) :-?
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: hotel21 on 31 January 2008, 10:20:35
Its one I posted in obtuse terms about the other week.  Will move to genchat then splice the posts together and explain further....
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Essex_Andy on 31 January 2008, 10:39:58
The only way it can be done is if the previous owner opted for a 'private plate' and he could prove that the plate matched his name or initials as you cannot have a private plate in attempt to alter the age of a car.

And a person doesnt buy the registration, you buy the right to display that registration. The right may be revoked by the police and DVLA if the registration is abused i.e miss-spaced to spell out words etc
Title: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: hotel21 on 20 January 2008, 16:22:59
Two threads merged at this point as relating to the same vehicle.  Following is the start post on added thread.



Quick question....

Whats the changeover date from mini facelift to facelift or, whats the oldest facelift thats seen or indeed, the youngest minilift?

reason - seen an 03 plate minilift and wondered 'how??'.

ta
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: tunnie on 20 January 2008, 16:24:19
facelift happend in 1999.

Latest pre-facelift i have seen is W plate

Earliest facelift - V plate
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: hotel21 on 20 January 2008, 16:25:43
thanks Tunnie.

As said, seen an 03 plate estate with low miles for sale but dubious that its a) straight b) been sat in a field for yonks before registration c) imported
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: tunnie on 20 January 2008, 16:27:15
Quote
thanks Tunnie.

As said, seen an 03 plate estate with low miles for sale but dubious that its a) straight b) been sat in a field for yonks before registration c) imported

Well considering 2003 was the last offical year the Omega was manafatured, it sounds tad strange....

Could be an Import from Ireland? and registered on UK plates...
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: hotel21 on 20 January 2008, 16:28:17
Quote
Quote
thanks Tunnie.

As said, seen an 03 plate estate with low miles for sale but dubious that its a) straight b) been sat in a field for yonks before registration c) imported

Well considering 2003 was the last offical year the Omega was manafatured, it sounds tad strange....

Could be an Import from Ireland? and registered on UK plates...

should still be re-registered on an age related plate.  Only way it can get an 03 is if its new at DFR.....   :-/
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: tunnie on 20 January 2008, 16:29:23
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Quote
Quote
thanks Tunnie.

As said, seen an 03 plate estate with low miles for sale but dubious that its a) straight b) been sat in a field for yonks before registration c) imported

Well considering 2003 was the last offical year the Omega was manafatured, it sounds tad strange....

Could be an Import from Ireland? and registered on UK plates...

should still be re-registered on an age related plate.  Only way it can get an 03 is if its new at DFR.....   :-/

 :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: MikeDundee on 20 January 2008, 16:51:51
Would've thought being on an 03 plate its a facelift full stop :-/
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: hotel21 on 20 January 2008, 16:54:46
Definately a minilift Mike.  Same as mine but an estate.

Did a check on the DVLA site and found...

Date of Liability  01 09 2007  
Date of First Registration  24 03 2003  
Year of Manufacture  1999  


So, tax expired last year, DoFR matches plate, but it shows as 4 years old when registered?  The export marker shows as 'not applicable' but nothing to show as an import.....  

Will make further enquiries in the morning...   ;)
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: MikeDundee on 20 January 2008, 16:59:43
I see now, could be Northern ireland plate as Tunnie suggested, they start with 3 letters, as mine is a northern ireland plate, hence SIL ::)
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: hotel21 on 20 January 2008, 17:01:37
No mate, its a UK plate...  

Looked at many a number plate over the past year or two!   ;D   :y
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: MikeDundee on 20 January 2008, 17:03:26
Quote
No mate, its a UK plate...  

Looked at many a number plate over the past year or two!   ;D   :y

Yeah silly me :-[, well must have been stashed in a field or barn then ;D
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 January 2008, 17:06:02
Even if it were an import it should be impossible to register it on a plate that makes it appear newer than it is. Since date of manufacture is known by DVLA and consistent with the car, I'd say the manufacturer must have declared it new in 2003. Where it sat between 1999 and then is a mystery, of course.

Could be a bit of a find or a bit of a lemon really. :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Andy B on 20 January 2008, 17:06:55
Quote
....

Will make further enquiries in the morning...   ;)

 :-? Curiouser & curiouser .......  :-?
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Andy B on 20 January 2008, 17:08:39
Quote
Even if it were an import it should be impossible to register it on a plate that makes it appear newer than it is.......  

Agreed, which was the reason for the introduction of 'Q' marks.
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Elite Pete on 20 January 2008, 17:14:41
Its probably been sat around a dealers for a while.  :y
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: MikeDundee on 20 January 2008, 17:20:30
Quote
Its probably been sat around a dealers for a while.  :y

Whats is the mileage ::)
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: hotel21 on 20 January 2008, 17:38:44
reasonable........  ;)
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Markie on 20 January 2008, 18:07:05
Quote
reasonable........  ;)


I know the very one Mr  ;)

Couldnt find anything untoward myself when i checked.....
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Markjay on 20 January 2008, 18:24:48
Quote
...Latest pre-facelift i have seen is W plate...

Yep - I'll go with that. Mine is 2001 Y-reg and by then there were definitely no new minifacelifts around...
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: TheBoy on 20 January 2008, 20:04:42
Pre mini facelift - MY94 - MY97
mini facelift - MY98 - MY99
Facelift - MY00 - MY03
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 20 January 2008, 20:16:44
The only thing i can think of apart from its been sat unregistered for a few years.......is and i know this used to go on.......but unsure when/if the loophole was closed.....

It was bought in Germany (tho i would have thought it would have been badged as Opel) by armed services personal......driven about in Germany for a few years, then bought into the UK and re-registered as new

As said i know this used to go on........but i thought this loophole/fiddle had been stopped  :-/
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Danny on 20 January 2008, 23:59:16
Quote
Definately a minilift Mike.  Same as mine but an estate.

Did a check on the DVLA site and found...

Date of Liability  01 09 2007  
Date of First Registration  24 03 2003  
Year of Manufacture  1999  


So, tax expired last year, DoFR matches plate, but it shows as 4 years old when registered?  The export marker shows as 'not applicable' but nothing to show as an import.....  

Will make further enquiries in the morning...   ;)

do you recall me raising the same point a good while back in relation to a 1999 BMW 3 series (older shape) that was registered (legally according to DVLA) on an 02 registration plate?
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: hotel21 on 21 January 2008, 00:09:14
Quote
Quote
Definately a minilift Mike.  Same as mine but an estate.

Did a check on the DVLA site and found...

Date of Liability  01 09 2007  
Date of First Registration  24 03 2003  
Year of Manufacture  1999  


So, tax expired last year, DoFR matches plate, but it shows as 4 years old when registered?  The export marker shows as 'not applicable' but nothing to show as an import.....  

Will make further enquiries in the morning...   ;)

do you recall me raising the same point a good while back in relation to a 1999 BMW 3 series (older shape) that was registered (legally according to DVLA) on an 02 registration plate?

To be honest, at the moment, I dont remember!  May get my second wind after breakfast and a wee hint though!   ;D
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Danny on 21 January 2008, 00:16:51
FOUND IT!!

Quote
Quote
here's a question that i'd love to know the answer to!!

new number plate format makes it easier to know what year a car is

51 - sept 01-end of feb 02
02 - march 02 - end of aug 02
52 - sept 02-end of feb 03
03 - march 03 - end of aug 03

and so on

so why would a 1999 BMW have an 02 plate on it... AND be officially registered under THAT plate as an actuall 1999 BMW??

I can only concurr with the posts above.  The vehicle must presumably have been a leftover in a garage, unregistered, then recently registered with all the required paperwork in place.

Link to DVLA for paperwork requirements for imports here (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/ImportingAndExportingAVehicle/DG_4022583).

To check for vehicle liability details and date of first registration etc, check here (http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/?SKIN=directgov) but the site does time out.  Can be re-reached via the online taxation link.

HtH

B


Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 21 January 2008, 01:10:47
Brucie, going back to the original post, there definately seems to be something "amiss" with this car.

My car is a "W" reg Omega, and there were only VERY few minifacelifts left on a W reg. By X reg, the only Omega's were facelifts.

EIther it's been sat brand new for 10 years since about 1998, or there is something potentially shady about it?

I would imagine you are, of course, better positioned and more knowledgable about such things in general - but going by my omega knowledge, to me, something doesn't ring right at all..

Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: x25xe on 21 January 2008, 09:46:44
If it was ex military, MOD etc. then the registration would have gone on the "first used" date.

I have a Scout minibus that is ex MOD and it is a '98 year.  Because the MOD declared it as first used in '94, it wears a M plate.
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 January 2008, 10:00:19
True. Could be that someone (Police / Military?) bought a batch of Omegas and this one never got used for some reason. It was then registered when sold off and the owner was able to declare it new.

As I say, it all depends how it's been stored (field / dry warehouse), whether it's had parts nicked from it or it's been kept complete, etc..

Kevin
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 January 2008, 14:05:07
Quite a few W reg PFL MV6s
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: hotel21 on 31 January 2008, 10:53:43
Quote
The only way it can be done is if the previous owner opted for a 'private plate' and he could prove that the plate matched his name or initials as you cannot have a private plate in attempt to alter the age of a car.

And a person doesnt buy the registration, you buy the right to display that registration. The right may be revoked by the police and DVLA if the registration is abused i.e miss-spaced to spell out words etc


Close, but not quite....

I was initially interested in purchasing same so done some digging about.  Since then, I have changed my mind for assorted reasons...

The car is manufactured in 1999 and recorded as such on the DVLA info page.

It is (supposedly) not possible to display a VRM which gives an incorrect or inaccurate impression of age.  Somehow, this one has.

According to the seller, it was first registered in the Isle of Man then 'imported' to mainland UK, as it were, sometime in 2002 or so.  He claims to have all paperwork etc. to verify age, service history, recent belt and tensioners etc etc etc...

Cue DVLA on left stage....  Spent a few days trying to track someone down who will look at this particular car and comment.  Bottom line, the car has had 'several' private plates over the years and somehow, a mistake has been made.  They wanted me to pay a fiver to get them to look at it....  No, ta, says I!!

They will need the seller to send in the V5c to DVLA so that they can cancel the plate and reissue a proper age related V/W plate or whatever.  I commented that the chances of this happening are between fat chance and no chance....  He is selling the car at that price and using the 03 plate, perhaps, to hs advantage.

I contacted the seller to advise him of the DVLA error in an effort to debate the selling price but I got rubber eared...

Decided to move on and look elsewhere.  It needs at least one headlamp washer anyway!!   ;D
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Andy B on 31 January 2008, 11:33:47
Quote
.....
Cue DVLA on left stage....  Spent a few days trying to track someone down who will look at this particular car and comment.  Bottom line, the car has had 'several' private plates over the years and somehow, a mistake has been made.  They wanted me to pay a fiver to get them to look at it....  No, ta, says I!!

They will need the seller to send in the V5c to DVLA so that they can cancel the plate and reissue a proper age related V/W plate or whatever.  I commented that the chances of this happening are between fat chance and no chance....  He is selling the car at that price and using the 03 plate, perhaps, to hs advantage.

.......

So .... you mean DVLA f***ed up!  :o  :o  :y
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: alank46 on 31 January 2008, 12:10:19
[So .... you mean DVLA f***ed up!  :o  :o  :y[/quote]

No, the first registration date is just that, it bears no relation to the manufacture date, except that it would be a bit difficult to register a car before it was built.  In the past new cars have sat in fields for many months, even years, unsold and unregistered.  When first registered the year identifier is always that applicable to the actual registration date, not the build date.

Imported second hand cars can be built in say 1990 and if imported in 2008 get an 08 plate.
Alan
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: hotel21 on 31 January 2008, 12:21:27
Quote
Quote

So .... you mean DVLA f***ed up!  :o  :o  :y


No, the first registration date is just that, it bears no relation to the manufacture date, except that it would be a bit difficult to register a car before it was built.  In the past new cars have sat in fields for many months, even years, unsold and unregistered.  When first registered the year identifier is always that applicable to the actual registration date, not the build date.

Imported second hand cars can be built in say 1990 and if imported in 2008 get an 08 plate.
Alan

No they dont.  They get an age related mark unless they are declared brand spanking new at date of import.  If manufactured and registered in another country in, say, 1990 then imported into the UK now then the car would be issued with a G prefix or similar, not an 08.

It would only be your brand new car thats been sat in a field for years that would, potentially, get an 08 plate but even then, I think there is a 10 year maximum that applies...

AndyB - yes, DVLA made an upcock of it.....
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 31 January 2008, 12:26:17
Quote
Imported second hand cars can be built in say 1990 and if imported in 2008 get an 08 plate.
Alan

Only if they are declared new at registration. Some supporting evidence that they are new would be required (probably an inspection by VOSA, especially if its A.N.Other declaring it new rather than Vauxhall Motors).

If no evidence of "newness" is available it will get an age related plate with the year of manufacutre, and if there is no supporting evidence of its' year of manufacture it will get a Q plate.

Of course, the manufacturer can leave cars in a field for as long as they like before declaring them "new".

Having said that, VROs all seem to apply different rules and the whole organisation is just a nightmare. It wouldn't surprise me if someone just pushed the wrong buttons in this case.

Kevin
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Markjay on 31 January 2008, 12:30:41
Legal loophole or DVLA cock-up? Either way, the current owner is very lucky   ;D
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 31 January 2008, 12:33:02
Yep. He's lucky every buyer isn't as thorough as Brucie, I suspect.

Kevin
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: hotel21 on 31 January 2008, 12:33:41
Quote
Legal loophole or DVLA cock-up? Either way, the current owner is very lucky   ;D

......DVLA mistake.  

When the new owner applies for the logbook they will get a W plate on the V5 instead of an 03.  Thats when the cack can hit the fan.  The current seller is aware of the mistake and also that DVLA want their logbook back.  

Edit to add ---

However, they (DVLA that is....) wanted me to spend a fiver to tell them by means of a form where the car is for sale.  I told them verbally.  Even if I did send a form in, was told they would do nothing, pending the arrival of the new V5 request from the subsequent buyer.  They had zero interest in the fact that the car was being (age) misrepresented.      [smiley=angry.gif]
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: omegamonkey on 31 January 2008, 14:04:07
This is intriguing - surely the seller can be done for false sale of goods now that he knows it's invalid? (If the buyer finds this thread!)

Aside from this car, if we didn't know the facts, could it have just been one of the many police surplus models that were bought and stored as reported by other members of these forums? I can well believe they hung on to it for years then decided to get rid of it so registered and sold, that would be a possible explanation, if we didn't know any better?

*edit - In the interests of protecting other would-be Miggy owners, I'm adding the reg to this post so that it will at some point be searchable once archived in search engine caches so that any potential buyers searching for info might find this thread. FB03 FSG
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Danny on 31 January 2008, 15:30:50
hadnt seen the car itself, but now i have (thanks to merged thread) the 03 plate is officially registered to that car, and that car was infact manufactured in 1999, so maybe it was kept unregistered and unused, in storage from then til 2003
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: hotel21 on 31 January 2008, 16:36:26
Quote
hadnt seen the car itself, but now i have (thanks to merged thread) the 03 plate is officially registered to that car, and that car was infact manufactured in 1999, so maybe it was kept unregistered and unused, in storage from then til 2003

It wasn't.  It was registered on the Isle of Man in 1999 used there for a couple of years then imported to here.
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: waspy on 31 January 2008, 17:32:32
Quote
Quote
Quote

So .... you mean DVLA f***ed up!  :o  :o  :y


No, the first registration date is just that, it bears no relation to the manufacture date, except that it would be a bit difficult to register a car before it was built.  In the past new cars have sat in fields for many months, even years, unsold and unregistered.  When first registered the year identifier is always that applicable to the actual registration date, not the build date.

Imported second hand cars can be built in say 1990 and if imported in 2008 get an 08 plate.
Alan

No they dont.  They get an age related mark unless they are declared brand spanking new at date of import.  If manufactured and registered in another country in, say, 1990 then imported into the UK now then the car would be issued with a G prefix or similar, not an 08.

It would only be your brand new car thats been sat in a field for years that would, potentially, get an 08 plate but even then, I think there is a 10 year maximum that applies...

AndyB - yes, DVLA made an upcock of it.....


When i imported my Trans-Am from Dubia, it was manufactured & sold in 1992 & so after it had been SVA'd it was given a J VRM.
My old Rover 800 Diesel was manufactured in 1994, but was not registered until 1996 & so came with a P VRM
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: CaptainZok on 31 January 2008, 18:07:59
Quote
Quote
Legal loophole or DVLA cock-up? Either way, the current owner is very lucky   ;D

......DVLA mistake.  

When the new owner applies for the logbook they will get a W plate on the V5 instead of an 03.  Thats when the cack can hit the fan.  The current seller is aware of the mistake and also that DVLA want their logbook back.  

Edit to add ---

However, they (DVLA that is....) wanted me to spend a fiver to tell them by means of a form where the car is for sale.  I told them verbally.  Even if I did send a form in, was told they would do nothing, pending the arrival of the new V5 request from the subsequent buyer.  They had zero interest in the fact that the car was being (age) misrepresented.      [smiley=angry.gif]

What a brilliant idea, think you need to suggest it to your senior management Brucie.
Charge the public say £20 to report a crime, imagine how the crime figures will drop and if the agrieved party does report a small profit too.
This could get someone a promotion.  ;D ;D


Seriously though its absolutely bloody ridiculous, charging the public to give information, whatever next.
Title: Re: Change date - mini lift to facelift?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 31 January 2008, 18:09:35
Quote
Brucie, going back to the original post, there definately seems to be something "amiss" with this car.

My car is a "W" reg Omega, and there were only VERY few minifacelifts left on a W reg. By X reg, the only Omega's were facelifts.

EIther it's been sat brand new for 10 years since about 1998, or there is something potentially shady about it?

I would imagine you are, of course, better positioned and more knowledgable about such things in general - but going by my omega knowledge, to me, something doesn't ring right at all..


My last one was W reg mini FL
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Andy B on 31 January 2008, 18:11:32
Quote
.......
Seriously though its absolutely bloody ridiculous, charging the public to give information, whatever next.

DVLA are good at charging for things. If your car is decalred a CAT C right off they want the log book V5c back. You get the car road worthy and then charge you £19(?) to get back what they asked you for in the first place.  :o
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: motmann on 31 January 2008, 19:41:50
be aware guys some manufactures will take a car off the production line (or in the case of imports) the transporter and use unregerstered round the factory or manifacturing plant ,then, they would be cleaned and regerstered and put on the demo fleet. rover and ford did this quite often and a friend at toyota at derby reckons it happens there too.  ;) oh and a VOSA vic check costs £36 after you pay £19 to get the v5c back!!!
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Andy B on 31 January 2008, 19:47:29
Quote
....... oh and a VOSA vic check costs £36 after you pay £19 to get the v5c back!!!

I don't really have a gripe with VOSA charging for their time & effort testing the car, but the V5C is something that DVLA ask back & then charge you for something you already had.  :-?
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Markjay on 31 January 2008, 20:08:20
Quote
Quote
....... oh and a VOSA vic check costs £36 after you pay £19 to get the v5c back!!!

I don't really have a gripe with VOSA charging for their time & effort testing the car, but the V5C is something that DVLA ask back & then charge you for something you already had.  :-?

It's called Administration Fee and it is used to pay the salaries of various administrators. You wouldn't want them to go hungry, wouldn't you? After all. they have to provide for their families. So there.
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: markey mark on 31 January 2008, 20:39:58
and its £25 for v5 now !! :o :o
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 31 January 2008, 20:58:27
Quote
It's called Administration Fee and it is used to pay the salaries of various administrators. You wouldn't want them to go hungry, wouldn't you? After all. they have to provide for their families. So there.

Having been in a VRO for hours trying to register a kit car. No, I wouldn't want them to go hungry.....


I'd want to do the job properly and let them starve, thereby removing themselves from the gene pool. ;D

Kevin
Title: Re: Why is this an 03 plate when its old?
Post by: amigov6 on 31 January 2008, 21:56:41
Just looked on Hpi original site, it comes back as a Skoda Felicia......no, sorry a 99 3.0 MV6.
     Can't find out any more without paying. >:(