Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: philsteward on 30 July 2011, 16:58:38

Title: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 30 July 2011, 16:58:38
Right then, done plenty of searching around on this forum and on the rest of the web but have now run out of ideas.

I have a Vauxhall locking wheel nut (flower type I think) which was clearly put on by supermans bigger and stronger brother. I eventually got the 4 other normal bolts out (using a 6foot scaffold pole!) but the locking wheel nut key is now knackered.

I have taken the car to 3 different garages where they have tried knocking hexagonal sockets on, bi-hex  sockets, the splined bolt removers, threaded locking wheel nut removal tools, and even welding a nut on. I still have the remains of the locking wheel nut on!

Any more ideas? only thing I can think of is driling it off, but think that will take ages.

Would like to finsh by saying they are a crap design of locking wheel nut...but clearly very good!
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Jimbob on 30 July 2011, 17:08:29
drill sounds like your only option.

Ive done it, and its not fun.
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: HockeyDave55 on 30 July 2011, 18:21:54
I had the same problem a while ago on a ford....
Bashed a 12 pointed socket on, I think it was a 15mm or 16mm???
And a club hammer!!!!! Did the trick though... Good luck...
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Tony H on 30 July 2011, 18:32:32
Quote
Right then, done plenty of searching around on this forum and on the rest of the web but have now run out of ideas.

I have a Vauxhall locking wheel nut (flower type I think) which was clearly put on by supermans bigger and stronger brother. I eventually got the 4 other normal bolts out (using a 6foot scaffold pole!) but the locking wheel nut key is now knackered.

I have taken the car to 3 different garages where they have tried knocking hexagonal sockets on, bi-hex  sockets, the splined bolt removers, threaded locking wheel nut removal tools, and even welding a nut on. I still have the remains of the locking wheel nut on!

Any more ideas? only thing I can think of is driling it off, but think that will take ages.

Would like to finsh by saying they are a crap design of locking wheel nut...but clearly very good!

There o.k. if the monkey at the tyre centre knew what a torque wrench was and whats more knew how to use it, Instead of taking the lazy route and using a windy gun.
Have you removed the coller from around the nut before whacking an under sized socket on it?
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 30 July 2011, 19:36:16
Yep, got a small chisel on that straight away. Now a 16mm socket fits on but spins off when you try and undo, because it is just too tight.
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: 51M0N on 31 July 2011, 12:24:34
I had exactly the same problem not long ago with one of them. I took it to my mate whos built like a house and he hammered a bihex socket and and gave it some with a strongarm.
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 31 July 2011, 12:37:02
My problem is getting a socket on tight enough. I can twist it off with a 24inch breaker bar.

If I drill it, I am worried I won't be able to get the threaded bit out. Anyone know how much thread I will be left with sticking out?
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Andy H on 31 July 2011, 13:06:16
Once you have drilled through the head it will snap off leaving a length of thread equal to the thickness of the wheel to get a grip on.

It will unscrew easily without any tension on it.
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Andy H on 31 July 2011, 13:10:30
Have you got the other 4 bolts in place and done up tight?

My theory is that if you loosen the other bolts first it puts all the load on the locking bolt and makes it more difficult to undo :-/
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 31 July 2011, 13:15:08
Tried all different ways. Even tried loosening the other 4 and bumping u a curb to see if it will shock it. Also tried tightening them super tight to take some of the load off.

The bolt has been done up so tight, don't see how I will get it out. Thought is to weld a nut on and do it that way.

Thoguht I would take this opportunity to say thanks for all the help!
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: tango on 31 July 2011, 22:46:03
Ok try this
Smack a 16 or 17 mm socket on to it
One that goes on really nice and tight
Then do not use a ratchet
Then use a t bar and extended with a pipe like think if you wish
Now get a freind who can apply some pressure on to it as if he was gonna open it but not to much to slip the socket off
While he'd doin that get a heavy club hammer and hammer the socket with the t bar connected as hard as you can
If the first hit doesn't work the second or third will defo do the job
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 31 July 2011, 22:55:51
Have sort of tried that, but not since all the garages have tried, so was getting a poor grip on nut. Will try it again tomorrow with a T-bar as you suggest.

Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: richdrury on 31 July 2011, 22:56:38
I've delt with this several times at work, you will need to drill centrally down the stud several times, each time increasing the size of the hole till the bolt head is removed, remove the rim and the remaining threads should come out by hand believe it or not. ;)

Good quality drill bits and a bench grinder for sharpening are a must, and use the drill on a slow speed setting for better cutting :)
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 31 July 2011, 23:04:09
That shall be my back up! Dreading the drilling, but at least I am not in a rush!

And now you have said it, it makes sense that the remains would cone out easily as it is the shoulder of the nut which is holding the nut fast!

Out of interest, what drill bits would you recommend?
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: tango on 31 July 2011, 23:06:55
It should work  mate as long as you hit it hard enough
I had to remove four once in the same manner after all other attempts failed
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Bionic on 01 August 2011, 05:52:13
When I have to have someone else take off the wheels and replace them I always take the locknut off myself and then replace it when they are done. That way I know it has been done correctly and not with an air powered tool! The nuts should be torqued anyway!
Its tho only way you can be certain you will be able to get it off again if you need to..... ;)
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Andy H on 01 August 2011, 07:18:50
Quote
That shall be my back up! Dreading the drilling, but at least I am not in a rush!

And now you have said it, it makes sense that the remains would cone out easily as it is the shoulder of the nut which is holding the nut fast!

Out of interest, what drill bits would you recommend?
The best HSS (high speed steel) you can lay your hands on (Dormer, Britool, Snap On)

Don't rush, keep the drill bit cool by dipping it in water every few seconds. Above all don't snap a drill bit in the hole :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: richdrury on 01 August 2011, 07:48:30
cant remember the makers name but i do remember that they were £14 each :o but then the firm paid for them  ;)

Ok i found one of the drill bits, no makers name on the shaft, but they are HSS-TG bits, best bits i've ever used, hope that helps.
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Andy B on 01 August 2011, 08:28:04
Quote
....
Don't rush, keep the drill bit cool by dipping it in water every few seconds. Above all don't snap a drill bit in the hole :y

If water is all you have maybe, but something more like Rocol (http://www.rocol.com/corp/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=142&Itemid=162) would be better.
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: HockeyDave55 on 01 August 2011, 08:45:18
Quote
When I have to have someone else take off the wheels and replace them I always take the locknut off myself and then replace it when they are done. That way I know it has been done correctly and not with an air powered tool! The nuts should be torqued anyway!
Its tho only way you can be certain you will be able to get it off again if you need to..... ;)

I work at a vehicle development centre and we have a process to safety check our cars, this includes checking the torque on the wheel fixings.
We have found bolts/studs broken or at best yielded because of being over tightened, and using a gun to even take a wheel off is now a disciplinary!

Use a socket, one that just taps on isn't small enough, you will have to beat the c**p out of it and you might go through 4 sockets!  :)

Good luck! :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 01 August 2011, 09:53:59
Thanks a lot chaps.

Shall try it out tonight if I get the chance, trying the T-Bar method first, and if that fails will start the drilling.

Bought some "drill through anything" drill bits at a show recently, with a life time guarantee, so shall take the opportunity to try them out!

Cheers
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: MutantCav on 01 August 2011, 10:36:40
And dont forget...if the 16mm socket isnt quite tight enough and the 15mm is just too small...there is the old money socket...I know 19mm is about a 3/4 and 13mm is about 1/2 so 15/16mm will be somewhere in between :y Just saying because they are not quite the same sizes and may be that little bit more snug :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 03 August 2011, 21:39:15
UPDATE! I still have one locking wheel nut on my car  >:(

I tried what Tango suggested, and just managed to mangle my 16mm, and two 15mm sockets.

Now on with richdury2001's suggestion.  Have drilled the centre of the nut out to 12mm, which I have measured is slightly larger than the threaded section, but still small enough to allow a bit of play through the alloy wheel hole.

Still stuck fast, so can only assume I need to go a bit deeper.  Measuring roughly how far I have drilled in, I might be about 4mm short of the end of the shank/shoulder, so shall carry on tomorrow.

Hope it does work, as totally mangled now and cannot get any sockets on it!
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Andy H on 03 August 2011, 22:00:00
Quote
UPDATE! I still have one locking wheel nut on my car  >:(

I tried what Tango suggested, and just managed to mangle my 16mm, and two 15mm sockets.

Now on with richdury2001's suggestion.  Have drilled the centre of the nut out to 12mm, which I have measured is slightly larger than the threaded section, but still small enough to allow a bit of play through the alloy wheel hole.

Still stuck fast, so can only assume I need to go a bit deeper.  Measuring roughly how far I have drilled in, I might be about 4mm short of the end of the shank/shoulder, so shall carry on tomorrow.

Hope it does work, as totally mangled now and cannot get any sockets on it!

Only 4mm from success now  :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: richdrury on 04 August 2011, 08:16:48
Quote
Quote
UPDATE! I still have one locking wheel nut on my car  >:(

I tried what Tango suggested, and just managed to mangle my 16mm, and two 15mm sockets.

Now on with richdury2001's suggestion.  Have drilled the centre of the nut out to 12mm, which I have measured is slightly larger than the threaded section, but still small enough to allow a bit of play through the alloy wheel hole.

Still stuck fast, so can only assume I need to go a bit deeper.  Measuring roughly how far I have drilled in, I might be about 4mm short of the end of the shank/shoulder, so shall carry on tomorrow.

Hope it does work, as totally mangled now and cannot get any sockets on it!

Only 4mm from success now  :y

drill 3mm more remove rest of studs from wheel and use a hefty bar to pry the wheel off, this will prevent damaging the threads in the hub ;)
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 04 August 2011, 08:19:29
Is there not a risk of shattering the alloy by using the wheel to pry it off? That is what is concerning me now.
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Andy B on 04 August 2011, 10:25:55
Quote
Is there not a risk of shattering the alloy by using the wheel to pry it off? That is what is concerning me now.

I can kind of see the logic in Rich's method, but I'd carry on as you were doing. I certainly wouldn't be using a hefty bar on the back of an ally wheel.  :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: richdrury on 04 August 2011, 19:19:48
trust me im a tyre fitter, i have done this several times and it has worked every time, the wheel will not be damaged (there stronger then you think) and the remaining undrilled stud will pop of, the thread can then be removed from the hub. :y

when i say a hefty bar i meant a long pry bar and apply steady pressure, dont just yank on it. sorry if i sounded abit heavy handed. :-[
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Andy B on 04 August 2011, 19:32:35

Quote
trust me im a tyre fitter, i have done this several times and it has worked every time, the wheel will not be damaged (there stronger then you think) and the remaining undrilled stud will pop of, the thread can then be removed from the hub. :y

when i say a hefty bar i meant a long pry bar and apply steady pressure, dont just yank on it. sorry if i sounded abit heavy handed. :-[

We'll trust you then  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 04 August 2011, 19:38:11
It's off, it's off! :)

Drilled another 3mm, then started to see a gap, shoved a small flat head screw driver in and enlarged it with a hammer.

Got the gap almost all the way round, then pulled on the wheel off.

Never been so happy to get a wheel off in my life!

Thanks for all your help, I shall post a pic or two Wyn I get on my PC.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Jimbob on 04 August 2011, 19:41:28
Well done, perseverance paid off  :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: richdrury on 04 August 2011, 20:21:24
glad to help, if id have been closer id have offered to come do it for ya, now stick 2 fingers up to the garages that saidit couldnt be done ;D
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 04 August 2011, 21:58:40
Here are the pics...

(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l510/Phil_Steward/Olly%20the%20Omega/WheelOff.jpg)
May not look exciting but an amazing relief!

(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l510/Phil_Steward/Olly%20the%20Omega/NutSide.jpg)
For those that might be interested...

(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l510/Phil_Steward/Olly%20the%20Omega/NutTop.jpg)
And that's all there was to it!

Thanks again, couldn't have done it without your help!
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Andy B on 04 August 2011, 22:00:32
Not bad at getting the centre of the bolt either  :y :y :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: richdrury on 04 August 2011, 22:23:34
very cleanly drilled mate, couldnt have done it better :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Tony H on 04 August 2011, 23:06:35
Result! :y :y :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Vamps on 04 August 2011, 23:10:14
Nice one....... :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Brikhead on 05 August 2011, 00:38:02
Well done!
 :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: robson on 05 August 2011, 10:10:18
What drill bits did you use may need to do it myself one day
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: jereboam on 05 August 2011, 13:08:48
On a recommendation from someone on here, I threw away the locking nuts years ago.

Quite honestly, the alloys on a 1999 Elite are so revolting unattractive that no one would want to steal them anyway. :)
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: philsteward on 05 August 2011, 13:31:47
Quote
What drill bits did you use may need to do it myself one day

I used a variety. Ended up being a 4mm & 7mm titanium tip from a Bosch set, followed by a 10mm & 12mm standar metal bits from Machinemart.

Just went on the slowest possible speed with my drill, torque setting 1 as it tended to jam a bit and ended up using a hole can of WD40 as lubricant/cooling liquid.

The 4mm took the longest, I would estimate 1min to drill in 3mm, but once through the hardened head of the bolt, it got lots quicker. The other sizes took no time at all really.

And not planning on putting the locking wheel nuts back on, don't think the alloys are that desirable!
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Jimbob on 05 August 2011, 13:37:42
After having to drill one myself....I no longer use locking nuts  :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: mahony on 05 August 2011, 16:40:46
Well done, i had  all four wheel locking nuts stuck on a astra gsi  some years back, a local garage got them off by banging on a star shaped adapter which cut into the locking nut, these where the pin hole type, never used them since  :y
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: Shackeng on 05 August 2011, 19:56:45
What, so none of you want my set on e-bay then? ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Impossible locking wheel nut!
Post by: dad1uk on 05 August 2011, 21:20:03
Quote
What, so none of you want my set on e-bay then? ::) ::) ::)


Tempting - but after reading this  no thanks!!  :y :y