Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tigers_gonads on 05 August 2011, 17:16:36
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At last, i've got the shed running on gas :) :y
Set up the software as per the instructions I think ::)
Did the map on petrol then tried the same route of lpg.
The car runs ok ish when cruiseing but when its put under any load, I get the ecu light on the dash flashing and the engine is reluctant to pull.
Took it for a blat down a duel carrageway today.
Entered it on a light throttle and let the speed creep up to 60 ish. No problem.
Dropped it down a cog and floored it.
The eml lamp gave a few flashes
I kept my foot in to see what would happen ::)
Got to about 70 ish and the power backed right off and the lpg buzzer started to bleep like crazy.
Next thing I know, the car cuts back to petrol. ( noted that according to the mid, the instant mpg was well down on what it should have been for the next few miles )
The petrol / lpg map I did seamed to be pretty good ( petrol and gas traces quite close together )
I did notice that the MAP presure was between 0.8 and 0.85 for most of the map :-/
The instructions stated around 0.3 :-/
I have just done a paperclip test and the following codes where stored
38 02 sensor 1 volts low
74 Maf volts high
98 02 sensor 2 volts low
I'm pretty confident that these codes are new ( car runs great on petrol )
The car has had its secondary air bits blanked of and removed by Daz 12 months ago. The car runs great on petrol and even though the idle compsumption is 0.3 :-/
I have kept a record of the setup figures if needed.
Any idea's ? or is it back to the box of matches again ;D ;D
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You definitely got the pressure sensor connected right, pipework wise?
Sounds like the pressure is dropping off. what size are your injector nozzles?
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You definitely got the pressure sensor connected right, pipework wise?
Sounds like the pressure is dropping off. what size are your injector nozzles?
Pressure sensor is plumbed .............. reducer ......... sensor ............ plenum.
Injectors are drilled out to 2.3 mm
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nozzles shoud be more like 3.0mm :y
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nozzles shoud be more like 3.0mm :y
The gas nozzles ( that screw into the manifold ) are as they came in the kit :y
The 6 injector nozzles was drilled out with a 2.3mm drill bit :y
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if this is for a 3 litre then 2.3 is not big enough.
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If it's switching back to petrol the vapour pressure is dropping too low. Is the vapouriser hot enough? (look at the reducer temperature in the LPG software)
What pressure is the vapouriser set to, and what is the threshold for switchover to petrol?
I agree that 2.3mm sounds too small, but I think the vapour pressure needs sorting first since it can't currently supply enough vapour.
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if this is for a 3 litre then 2.3 is not big enough.
2.3mm is plenty big enough with the new reducer/injectors running a vap pressure of around 1.1 BAR ;) Adjust the vap pressure with the little brass Allen key in the middle
Got my 3.2 (and at least one other) running perfectly on that setup :y
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Latest software will complain if the nozzles are too big with the dual feed vapourisor. Mine/ours are the recommended 2.5, but it looks like 2.3 is the way forward.
0.8 bar mentioned is too low as LD says. Get it warm, switch to gas and set the pressure to 1.1 bar as described. Then re calibrate and re map. Ignore the reading on petrol.
Assuming vap temp is warm enough. Iirc the vap needed re pluming on another thread.
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Right the internet round here is sh*t so i'll try and answer some questions while its on ;D :y
Chris .............. the reducer was re plumbed when I sorted out the leaking waterpipe.
It now gets hot within a mile or so.
Kevin .............. the threshold for switchover to petrol is set at 6000 rpm
In the temperature box, both readings was about the same plus / minus 5 degrees
LD .............. Presure readings. As you look at the AC Gas Synchro gas controller settings page.
Top right hand corner box titled Presure ( BAR )
GAS 1.1 bar approx
MAP 0.8 bar approx
Hope this lot helps
Any advise welcome and i'll get back to you if the t'internet is bloody working ::) ;D
cheers steve
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I'll have a look later to see if I've got a saved settings file of one of the new kits and post a screen shot/email it to you.
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I'll have a look later to see if I've got a saved settings file of one of the new kits and post a screen shot/email it to you.
That would be great :y
The lpg controller cut the gas off tonight ( empty ) so I just put 25 quids worth of gas in.
100 miles worth on petrol, i'll see what I get on gas :-/
May try a new map tomorrow and see how it behaves.
Need to get it sorted asap because im going down to the caravan on wednesday for 5 days.
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I've just crashed the gas ecu back to default and re done the map.
The car now idles better and seems to drive a little better.
The petrol and gas traces are now within 2 or 3 mm from each other.
But ............. during a slight uphill run ( car doing 50 ish / 4th gear / gas / accelerating with the throttle wide open ) the eml light is comeing on ( same codes as last time ) and the power is backing off :(
Am I looking at opening the gas injectors out or can this be sorted by adjusting the opening duration of the injectors :-/
During initial setup, I recieved 2 warnings.
Map presure too high
Injector nozzles are too big
Must admit, i'm cr*p at all this lark so any pointers apprieciated
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MAP 0.8 bar approx
This concerns me. Is this the reading you get with the engine idling? Should be more like 0.3-0.35 IME.
Worth checking out the vacuum feed to the pressure sensor and vapouriser?
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MAP 0.8 bar approx
This concerns me. Is this the reading you get with the engine idling? Should be more like 0.3-0.35 IME.
Worth checking out the vacuum feed to the pressure sensor and vapouriser?
Me also :-/
Map reading at idle and pretty constant through the rev range
Am I looking for a leak / bad conection ?
If it was a leaking pipe, wouldn't it be too low ?
Dodgy pressure / temp sensor supplied with the kit ?
If the reading is right, what would cause it to be so high ?
Am I going to be baned for being a pain in the arse ? ;D
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MAP 0.8 bar approx
This concerns me. Is this the reading you get with the engine idling? Should be more like 0.3-0.35 IME.
Worth checking out the vacuum feed to the pressure sensor and vapouriser?
Me also :-/
Am I looking for a leak / bad conection ?
If it was a leaking pipe, wouldn't it be too low ?
Dodgy pressure / temp sensor supplied with the kit ?
If the reading is right, what would cause it to be so high ?
Am I going to be baned for being a pain in the arse ? ;D
Yes! ;D ;D ;D
I would say that a dodgy sensor is last on the list... Possible but unlikely ;)
You need to trace back through your connections and make sure they are all accurate... I would be looking for a mistake on the vacuum connections personally ;)
Where have you picked up the vac reference? from the main servo to plenum pipe? have you got the vac reference from the vaporiser to the sensor right? Any kinks in the pipes?
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Also, if the MAP reading isn't changing at all through the rev range you've taken the connection from the wrong place... i.e. it must have a reservoir to keep it that stable which defeats the object of having the reference ;)
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Me also :-/
Am I looking for a leak / bad conection ?
If it was a leaking pipe, wouldn't it be too low ?
Dodgy pressure / temp sensor supplied with the kit ?
If the reading is right, what would cause it to be so high ?
Am I going to be baned for being a pain in the arse ? ;D
It's an absolute pressure, so if it would be open to atmosphere it would read 1. A vacuum would be 0. The intake manifold is always somewhere between the two. Normally, it idle, the throttle is almost closed, so the engine pulls a strong vacuum. As I say, typically around 0.3 BAR. At full throttle it will increase to 1 BAR.
So, first thing to do is to check the wiring and plumbing to both ports on the pressure sensor. Also check that the correct sensor is selected in the LPG ECU software. If that all looks OK then, yes, a leak into the vacuum line would be a possibility. If you've Tee'd the LPG vacuum into the feed from the brake servo pipe it could also be down to a leak in the multiram vacuum system or the brake servo pipe itself, which has a habit of getting chafed.
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MAP 0.8 bar approx
This concerns me. Is this the reading you get with the engine idling? Should be more like 0.3-0.35 IME.
Worth checking out the vacuum feed to the pressure sensor and vapouriser?
Me also :-/
Am I looking for a leak / bad conection ?
If it was a leaking pipe, wouldn't it be too low ?
Dodgy pressure / temp sensor supplied with the kit ?
If the reading is right, what would cause it to be so high ?
Am I going to be baned for being a pain in the arse ? ;D
Yes! ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D swmbo says its my middle name ;D
I would say that a dodgy sensor is last on the list... Possible but unlikely ;)
You need to trace back through your connections and make sure they are all accurate... I would be looking for a mistake on the vacuum connections personally ;)
Where have you picked up the vac reference? from the main servo to plenum pipe? have you got the vac reference from the vaporiser to the sensor right? Any kinks in the pipes?
I've tapped a brass nozzle into the plenum between the icv and the brake servo pipe.
From the plenum to the sensor then into the reducer :-/
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Me also :-/
Am I looking for a leak / bad conection ?
If it was a leaking pipe, wouldn't it be too low ?
Dodgy pressure / temp sensor supplied with the kit ?
If the reading is right, what would cause it to be so high ?
Am I going to be baned for being a pain in the arse ? ;D
It's an absolute pressure, so if it would be open to atmosphere it would read 1. A vacuum would be 0. The intake manifold is always somewhere between the two. Normally, it idle, the throttle is almost closed, so the engine pulls a strong vacuum. As I say, typically around 0.3 BAR. At full throttle it will increase to 1 BAR.
So, first thing to do is to check the wiring and plumbing to both ports on the pressure sensor. Also check that the correct sensor is selected in the LPG ECU software. If that all looks OK then, yes, a leak into the vacuum line would be a possibility. If you've Tee'd the LPG vacuum into the feed from the brake servo pipe it could also be down to a leak in the multiram vacuum system or the brake servo pipe itself, which has a habit of getting chafed.
Oh sh*t, i'll check ::) :-[
CT-04-2K ( included in kit ) Thats what it says on the synchro settings page
Is that right :-/
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Were have you lads taken the vac feed from on your cars ?
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That's the temperature sensor. Pressure sensor is normally a PS-01 IIRC. Might not even be adjustable in the software. I can't remember.
Good that you have a separate nozzle in the plenum. That's the best way, IMHO.
What you could do is to watch the map reading with the engine stopped. Disconnect the pipe from the nozzle and suck on it as hard as you can. You should see 1 BAR with the pipe open and a good suck will take it down to perhaps 0.5-0.6. You should also be able to feel if there's a leak.
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I'll have a look later and report back :y
Swmbo is stood by the front door demanding to be taken shopping ::)
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I found it ;D ;D ;D
When I had bolted the plenum down, I had managed to nick and tear the vacuum pipe which is routed underneath the plenum on its way to the pressure sensor ::) ::)
At least I know its gonna work properly when ..................... I adjust the reducer :y
After I replaced the pipe, I had a steady 1.1 bar on the gas / 0.32 on the map at idle :y
Took it for a 20 mile mapping run. First time round the circuit on petrol then back round on gas.
There is a bit of a gap between petrol and gas ( about 5mm on the graph / mid to top rev range ) but I noticed that the gas pressure was down to 0.95 bar at idle when we stopped.
During the gas part of the map, I floored it and let the revs climb up past the gas cut of point ( 6000 rpm ) with no flashing eml :y Just a little down on power above about 4000 rpm.
Am I right that this was just the reducers internals bedding in and I can now tweek up the pressure at the reducer :-/
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Yep, tweak the reducer pressure back up and have another tweak of the map/ Sounds like you're getting there now. :y
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Yep, tweak the reducer pressure back up and have another tweak of the map/ Sounds like you're getting there now. :y
Happy days ;D :y
Might need a boat / big wellies to get to the car
Its pishing down here ;D ;D
Where abouts on the reducer is the adjusting screw ?
Its the twin output KME Gold one as supplied by teilo :y
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Yep, tweak the reducer pressure back up and have another tweak of the map/ Sounds like you're getting there now. :y
Happy days ;D :y
Might need a boat / big wellies to get to the car
Its pishing down here ;D ;D
Where abouts on the reducer is the adjusting screw ?
Its the twin output KME Gold one as supplied by teilo :y
I'm not familiar with that reducer. IIRC It's an allen-headed grub screw in the front face of the reducer.
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As Kevin said, Allen key required (4mm iirc) in the raised section. Can't remember which way you need to go but I do remember that it's the opposite way to the older reducer ::) Remember that there will be a delay between adjusting it and the software showing that adjustment so go slowly and wait 30s or so (until the reading settles again) before adjusting more.
Don't forget to run the auto calibration again ;)
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As Kevin said, Allen key required (4mm iirc) in the raised section. Can't remember which way you need to go but I do remember that it's the opposite way to the older reducer ::) Remember that there will be a delay between adjusting it and the software showing that adjustment so go slowly and wait 30s or so (until the reading settles again) before adjusting more.
Don't forget to run the auto calibration again ;)
Thanks all
I'll have a play later :y
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FYI Older reducer was clockwise to increase pressure.
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Gas pressure now adjusted to 1.1 bar ish at idle but its still struggleing at high engine load / speed and throwing a eml light in just to pish me off. :(
The car will run on gas as long as I don't push it :(
Right, Honesty time :-[
I'm struggling to get this lpg setup right ::) :-[
I'm going to give it one last go this evening.
If I can't get the tinker working well after that, any chance I can pay one of you lpg hero's a visit ?
I know i'm miles away from you all ( Hull ) at the moment but I will be staying down in Skegness
(Lincolnshire) from tomorrow until next monday :y
Can anybody help please, I promise i'll be on my best behavour ;D :y
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What fault code?
If it's struggling at high RPM then something is amiss as all the ones I've done (4 or 5) with that reducer have been fine :y
What's the service history on the car? Plugs, leads and DisPack all in good condition?
I might be able to arrange something if I'm heading that way for a meeting in the next week or 2 but can't promise anything
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Same codes as before.
The engine has done around 130,000 miles
No rattles or anything.
The coil pack / leads / plugs are all 18 months old.
New ish exhaust and 2 new cat's this year.
Basiclly it can use a little oil ( stem seals / 1/2 ltr a month steady townwork )
Other then that, it goes like sh*t of a shovel ( on a private road ) ;D ;D ;D
Are you around home this week ?
I know your area.
Was stationed at Raf Honnington for 6 months
Would it be easier if I came to you if thats more convienent ?
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Same codes as before.
The engine has done around 130,000 miles
No rattles or anything.
The coil pack / leads / plugs are all 18 months old.
New ish exhaust and 2 new cat's this year.
Basiclly it can use a little oil ( stem seals / 1/2 ltr a month steady townwork )
Other then that, it goes like sh*t of a shovel ( on a private road ) ;D ;D ;D
Are you around home this week ?
I know your area.
Was stationed at Raf Honnington for 6 months
Would it be easier if I came to you if thats more convienent ?
What's that 18 months in mileage?
MAF sensor code worries me a bit :-/
I'm just trying to sort out a trip up to Leeds for a meeting in the next few days... If I can get it sorted we'll meet up somewhere in the afternoon/evening (although you'll have to play it by ear time wise as I have no idea how long I'll be in the meeting!)
Honnington is still a long way from me ;) And, TBH, doing things at my house is a little awkward at the moment :(
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Plugs ect have done about 10,000 miles
I've a spare maf in the cupboard so I'll stick it in the suitcase :)
I will be off the forum from tomorrow morning but I will be able to pickup pm's or my phone will be on :y
To be honest, knowing me ( and feel free to agree here ;D ;D )
I think its something I'm doing wrong with the setting / setup and mapping :-[
Cheers Paul
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Plugs ect have done about 10,000 miles
I've a spare maf in the cupboard so I'll stick it in the suitcase :)
I will be off the forum from tomorrow morning but I will be able to pickup pm's or my phone will be on :y
To be honest, knowing me ( and feel free to agree here ;D ;D )
I think its something I'm doing wrong with the setting / setup and mapping :-[
Cheers Paul
Could well be... I can't make any promises but I'll try to arrange something :y
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Plugs ect have done about 10,000 miles
I've a spare maf in the cupboard so I'll stick it in the suitcase :)
I will be off the forum from tomorrow morning but I will be able to pickup pm's or my phone will be on :y
To be honest, knowing me ( and feel free to agree here ;D ;D )
I think its something I'm doing wrong with the setting / setup and mapping :-[
Cheers Paul
Could well be... I can't make any promises but I'll try to arrange something :y
Should get a poll going on the forum :y
Tigers gonads can't get his lpg kit to work
Is it A/. A problem with his car
B/. A problem with his lpg kit
or C/. The dozzy tinker who installed it ;D ;D
I know which one i'd pick ;D ;D ;D
Good job I can take abuse ;D ;D
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It's now looking like i'm getting the hang of this mapping lark ::) :-[
It's running a little rich at the mo but at least it won't burn the valves out
I'll take the laptop with me and have a play while i'm away :y
Thanks for all the help and advise lads
Apreciated :)
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Well... thats been an interesting read...
Sounds like the same problem I am having(ish).
I'm too scared to mess about with anything under the hood, so today she is off to Gas Power UK just outside of Exeter.
They are going to look at it and I'll let you know what they said if it's relevant!