Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Sehen on 15 August 2011, 11:35:57
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Newbie her on the forum, and have almost gone trough all the guidlines an general help. But i couldn't find any help about the EGR on my 98mfl v6.
It has a rough idling, and i have changed the essensials, like the spark plugs, new magnacores, cranc sensor due to a intermittent 31 iirc ,oil and filters all arround.
The engine is a 4 year old GM repleasement with only 60K miles on it.
I have the diagnostic that we should not say the name of ;) , and there is no fault codes stored...
Is there anyone who have a guide or a how to about cleaning the EGR?
Yes, i have checked all the plumbing on the engine, new cambelt kit that's spot on and theres no leak in the ACC vacume :)
Hope for a fast response 8-)
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Tried cleaning ICV mate ? ;)
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By ICV you mean the idler control? Yes, both the one in the car, and the spare :) From Norway, and don t understand all the abbreviation, but correct me if I'm wrong ::)
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Sorry mate ICV = Idle Control Valve :y
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Nice :)
But, I was thinking (somethimes I do, actually!!!) the engine has standing in the garage for a year, could the EGR become corroded on the mating surfaces, so it wont be all the way shut when idling, and therfore slipping by some air?
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Try blaking the EGR valve off with metal plate cut to fit
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Thank's :) I will try it later this afternoon, after i have done the alu headligt adjuster upgrade on my HID lights. New HID headlight costs appr. 400£ in Norway.....each... So the alu adjuster is the most funniest/chepest uppgrade on my car....ever :D
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Still struggeling with the rough ideling. I have cleaned the EGR, checked it's function, and even tryed to blank it, but nothing helped.
I have cleaned up the ICV on the car and my spare, tryed both of them, and still the same.
I did suspect the Coil pack, and almost ordered one today(350£ in Norway)
But the car is not missfiering on load, just rough idling and bad drivability on low RPM's
But today i did check the fault codes, and there was one code, engine colant high(not present)
I know for a fact that the engine has not overheated...
Is the coolant temp. sensor or the plug just kidding with me?
I will order the retrofit kit with gold plated connectors, and keep you posted.
By the way, are The Vauxhall World Parts a recomended site for chep parts??
The prices here are wery low compared to the Norwegians, and they ship worldwide.
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Its always a good idea to oil the Idle Control Valve after it has been cleaned :y
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coolant temperature sensors are critical and fairly cheap ..
also if you want to check your engines condition,
try a compression test,
if its ok,
check the exhaust system for leaks (they generally leak from ex.manifold gaskets)
and also check for air leaks by spraying carb cleaner around engine...
must add, rough idles can be caused from many components which I spent a fortune on it in the past :(
and also hot and cold idle problems differ..
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coolant temperature sensors are critical and fairly cheap ..
also if you want to check your engines condition,
try a compression test,
if its ok,
check the exhaust system for leaks (they generally leak from ex.manifold gaskets)
and also check for air leaks by spraying carb cleaner around engine...
must add, rough idles can be caused from many components which I spent a fortune on it in the past :(
and also hot and cold idle problems differ..
Engine ok, 4 year old GM transplant with 60K miles on it.
No exhaust leaks.
Practicaly cleaned the engine with high flameable gasses and liquids.
And, it's a hot idle problem :'(
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coolant temperature sensors are critical and fairly cheap ..
also if you want to check your engines condition,
try a compression test,
if its ok,
check the exhaust system for leaks (they generally leak from ex.manifold gaskets)
and also check for air leaks by spraying carb cleaner around engine...
must add, rough idles can be caused from many components which I spent a fortune on it in the past :(
and also hot and cold idle problems differ..
Engine ok, 4 year old GM transplant with 60K miles on it.
No exhaust leaks.
Practicaly cleaned the engine with high flameable gasses and liquids.
And, it's a hot idle problem :'(
is it surging up and down ?
does the engine shake randomly ?
ps: 4 yr old and 60k doesnt guarantee anything imo :-/
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coolant temperature sensors are critical and fairly cheap ..
also if you want to check your engines condition,
try a compression test,
if its ok,
check the exhaust system for leaks (they generally leak from ex.manifold gaskets)
and also check for air leaks by spraying carb cleaner around engine...
must add, rough idles can be caused from many components which I spent a fortune on it in the past :(
and also hot and cold idle problems differ..
Engine ok, 4 year old GM transplant with 60K miles on it.
No exhaust leaks.
Practicaly cleaned the engine with high flameable gasses and liquids.And, it's a hot idle problem :'(
with what and how..if you applied carbon clean methods or similiar on a 60k engine , partially cleaned valves will mess up the idle badly..
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coolant temperature sensors are critical and fairly cheap ..
also if you want to check your engines condition,
try a compression test,
if its ok,
check the exhaust system for leaks (they generally leak from ex.manifold gaskets)
and also check for air leaks by spraying carb cleaner around engine...
must add, rough idles can be caused from many components which I spent a fortune on it in the past :(
and also hot and cold idle problems differ..
Engine ok, 4 year old GM transplant with 60K miles on it.
No exhaust leaks.
Practicaly cleaned the engine with high flameable gasses and liquids.
And, it's a hot idle problem :'(
is it surging up and down ?
does the engine shake randomly ?
ps: 4 yr old and 60k doesnt guarantee anything imo :-/
It shake randomly, then it will be okay for some seconds, and then shake again. The engine whas tested for vacum leaks with some carburettor cleaner and "starting gas" ?? on the outside only, without any luck.
When this heppens, the live data from the O2 sensors go from lean to rich, but does not create a fault code.
I have changed the crank sensor after a intermittent 31 code, and the starting problem dissapeard, like the 31.
The engine is checked, and the timingbelt and compression is ok, so is the color of the spark plugs, they all look the same.
There is no back compression in the system, and the crankhouseventilation works fine.
Cant find enything wrong with the live data from my diagnostic either, but I'm going to test my sons 2,5V6 with the diagnostics to compare, just have to wait until he comes back from school for a weekend :)
So I'm still confused, because the car runs good, and slightly pulls ahead other 2,5V6's.
So, my question is: ???????? :-/
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coolant temperature sensors are critical and fairly cheap ..
also if you want to check your engines condition,
try a compression test,
if its ok,
check the exhaust system for leaks (they generally leak from ex.manifold gaskets)
and also check for air leaks by spraying carb cleaner around engine...
must add, rough idles can be caused from many components which I spent a fortune on it in the past :(
and also hot and cold idle problems differ..
Engine ok, 4 year old GM transplant with 60K miles on it.
No exhaust leaks.
Practicaly cleaned the engine with high flameable gasses and liquids.
And, it's a hot idle problem :'(
is it surging up and down ?
does the engine shake randomly ?
ps: 4 yr old and 60k doesnt guarantee anything imo :-/
It shake randomly, then it will be okay for some seconds, and then shake again. The engine whas tested for vacum leaks with some carburettor cleaner and "starting gas" ?? on the outside only, without any luck.
When this heppens, the live data from the O2 sensors go from lean to rich, but does not create a fault code.
I have changed the crank sensor after a intermittent 31 code, and the starting problem dissapeard, like the 31.
The engine is checked, and the timingbelt and compression is ok, so is the color of the spark plugs, they all look the same.
There is no back compression in the system, and the crankhouseventilation works fine.
Cant find enything wrong with the live data from my diagnostic either, but I'm going to test my sons 2,5V6 with the diagnostics to compare, just have to wait until he comes back from school for a weekend :)
So I'm still confused, because the car runs good, and slightly pulls ahead other 2,5V6's.
So, my question is: ???????? :-/
check the alternator pulley..
although I still think you may have problem with a cylinder or 2 (may be ignition related) you can swap some sensors with the other miggy..
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A code 31 just means the engine is stopped. It doesn't indicate an error (19 is what indicates a failed crank sensor).
Can you see live data on your code reader?
If so, let it warm up fully and you can verify that the engine coolant temperature reading is plausible without changing any more parts.
While you're there, have a look at the MAF sensor output (typically around 12kg/h at hot idle) and make sure that Lambda control for both banks has entered closed loop and both integrators are around the mid-point (127).
Have a look to ensure all the other readings are plausible. If possible post up the complete set and we'll see if anything looks odd.
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check the alternator pulley..
although I still think you may have problem with a cylinder or 2 (may be ignition related) you can swap some sensors with the other miggy..[/quote]
What about the alternator pulley?
And yes, i think there is something with the ignition.
But is there a possibility that it can missfire only at idle and low rpm's, and at one sylinder only?
I thoght that the DIS pack had the coils in pairs, so it would cut 2sylinders at once, like the last DIS that failed on me...
Or is there a chance that it only runs on 5 syl. on idle, then missefires on another one, causing the shaking.
And I wont touch the DIS pack on my sons car, it have never been changed, so if I take it out from the car, it will certanly dissintegrate in my hands ;D
As I said earlyer in my post, i will order the new improved tempsensor, as it is a cheap thing, and then try to change the DIS pack
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A code 31 just means the engine is stopped. It doesn't indicate an error (19 is what indicates a failed crank sensor).
Can you see live data on your code reader?
If so, let it warm up fully and you can verify that the engine coolant temperature reading is plausible without changing any more parts.
While you're there, have a look at the MAF sensor output (typically around 12kg/h at hot idle) and make sure that Lambda control for both banks has entered closed loop and both integrators are around the mid-point (127).
Have a look to ensure all the other readings are plausible. If possible post up the complete set and we'll see if anything looks odd.
I have the live data function, and will write the readings down and post them here. But i know that they are not the same, one bank is about 10 of, iirc. But i will post them later on :)
Thanks for answering :y
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Ok! Here are the numbers :9
Fault code 15, colant temp. volt high, not present....
Ma f0,73-0,80 Whenidle fine, 0,75
Colant temp 1,13v 84deg.C
Intake temp 3,68V 16deg.C
Spark Angle 2-4 degres when fine, and 0-10 when engine shaking.
EGR at idle 0,62V Inactive
O2 sensor bank 1 117mV when fine, up to 800 when shaking..
Bank 2 the same...
O2 loop closed at both banks.
A/F both banks, changes from lean to rich...
Integrator bank 1 124 steps
Integrator bank 2 111 steps
Block 1 learn Map 166
nr 2 64.....? What does that mean? The ECU is the same as the old engine who did have a leaking piston on bank 2...
IAC Integrator 128 steps
IAC Integrator slope 140 steps
IAC 150 steps
IAC Learn 132 steps
Desired Idle air 11
Actual Idle air 11-12 KG/h
Inj Pulse 3,4 to 3,5mS
Load 1,2
TPS 0%
Iterresting to see what you find out of these numbers.. :y
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Ok! Here are the numbers :9
Fault code 15, colant temp. volt high, not present....
Ma f0,73-0,80 Whenidle fine, 0,75
Colant temp 1,13v 84deg.C
Intake temp 3,68V 16deg.C
Spark Angle 2-4 degres when fine, and 0-10 when engine shaking.EGR at idle 0,62V Inactive
O2 sensor bank 1 117mV when fine, up to 800 when shaking..
Bank 2 the same...
O2 loop closed at both banks.
A/F both banks, changes from lean to rich...
Integrator bank 1 124 steps
Integrator bank 2 111 steps
Block 1 learn Map 166
nr 2 64.....? What does that mean? The ECU is the same as the old engine who did have a leaking piston on bank 2...
IAC Integrator 128 steps
IAC Integrator slope 140 steps
IAC 150 steps
IAC Learn 132 steps
Desired Idle air 11
Actual Idle air 11-12 KG/h
Inj Pulse 3,4 to 3,5mS
Load 1,2
TPS 0%
Iterresting to see what you find out of these numbers.. :y
for some reason your engine is retarding ignition..
so it must have a knock..
initial guess, either timing incorrect or problem on some valves or faulty coil :-/
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or possibly a faulty/loose knock sensor ???
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Ok! Here are the numbers :9
Fault code 15, colant temp. volt high, not present....
Ma f0,73-0,80 Whenidle fine, 0,75
Colant temp 1,13v 84deg.C
Intake temp 3,68V 16deg.C
Spark Angle 2-4 degres when fine, and 0-10 when engine shaking.EGR at idle 0,62V Inactive
O2 sensor bank 1 117mV when fine, up to 800 when shaking..
Bank 2 the same...
O2 loop closed at both banks.
A/F both banks, changes from lean to rich...
Integrator bank 1 124 steps
Integrator bank 2 111 steps
Block 1 learn Map 166
nr 2 64.....? What does that mean? The ECU is the same as the old engine who did have a leaking piston on bank 2...
IAC Integrator 128 steps
IAC Integrator slope 140 steps
IAC 150 steps
IAC Learn 132 steps
Desired Idle air 11
Actual Idle air 11-12 KG/h
Inj Pulse 3,4 to 3,5mS
Load 1,2
TPS 0%
Iterresting to see what you find out of these numbers.. :y
for some reason your engine is retarding ignition..
so it must have a knock..
initial guess, either timing incorrect or problem on some valves or faulty coil :-/
Knock sensors inactive, forgot to wrigth that down :-/
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Today, my problem got a little worse.... When we loaded up the old Omega on the trailer, we could hear my car shaking, or missfiering somethimes. But when i picked it up late this night, when cold, i started it up, and the engine shaked violently, and the tacho did jump between 0 and 2000rpm's when this happend.
I havent read out the fault codes yet, but there was no engine light.
Is it my ECU who's saying goodby to me, or what?
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Today, my problem got a little worse.... When we loaded up the old Omega on the trailer, we could hear my car shaking, or missfiering somethimes. But when i picked it up late this night, when cold, i started it up, and the engine shaked violently, and the tacho did jump between 0 and 2000rpm's when this happend.
I havent read out the fault codes yet, but there was no engine light.
Is it my ECU who's saying goodby to me, or what?
ECU's dont fail frequently.. there is a solenoid behind the air pipes (which causes the idle jump up down) .. and also check the air cable connections..
ps: misfiring tells me that you have a combined problem..
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/Fotoraf0558.jpg)
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They where renown for air leaks - either from the 6 O ring seals under the plenum - or the seals on the plastic adaptor for the breather system - there's two O rings on this part that go into the throttle body - and one large seal where the plastic part goes into the inlet plenum - usually if you spray carb cleaner around these parts the rpm with change if they are leaking.
If nothing can be found check with a vacuum gauge at idle
o2 sensors should bounce between rich & lean constantly
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Right, the ignition timing is varied by the ECU to stabilise idle speed, so I'm not surprised that it's all over the place when the engine is misfiring. It's the ECU trying to compensate for the idle speed varying. It won't be knock sensor input, because they'll be inactive at idle anyway.
Everything else looks reasonable in the live data. Integrator slightly out on one bank, as you say, but I've seen worse.
Does the coolant temperature in the live data change when it starts misfiring? The fault code you have suggests that perhaps the wiring to the coolant temperature sensor has been intermittent. It may be nothing but, if the coolant temperature takes a dive due to a poor connection, the ECU could be enrichening the mixture leading to a misfire.
The other thing that strikes me as odd is that the rev counter is affected by the misfire. When the crank sensor was changed, was a genuine GM one used or a pattern part? It might be worth making sure the wiring to the crank sensor is routed well away from both the hot exhaust manifold and the coil pack and HT leads (route it up the inner wing and across to the cable tray on the 2,4,6 cam cover).
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The crank sensor is not a gm part... could it be so easy??
I'm goint to order it from the Uk, Vauxhall world... anyone heard about them? 1/3 of the price in Norway......
I have to change the cam cover gasket on the left bank also, so, is there any chance that the o-rings on the injektors are bad?
Thinking about changing all the gaskets and o-rings on the intake when it's of anyway.
About the tempsensor, havent seen any changes in live data, but maybe the refresh rate on my diagnostics isn't fast enough. When I have the plenum of, i check the sensor.
And no, the breather system works fine, and everything is open ;) So it is the camcover gasket.
So thanks for the input folks, and i will order a genuine gm crank sensor and gaskets. And then i will se what happens. Stay tuned :y
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Ok. bringing up my old post.
I haven't bathered to much about the DIS pack and Cranksensor, but a few days ago, my car just stalld on me.
I got the engine light on, and plugged in the diagnostic. Fault code 15, i think, the temp sensor. Live data showing minus 35 degres, when engine is about 70.
I did pull out the plugs at nr. 3 and 4, and they only fire once in a hvile.
So, into the garage, rip everything apart. Changed the tempsensor, and the DIS pack. When investegating the DIS pack, i noticed the rusty iron core, and tryed to messure resistance betwin the cores in the middle and the outer one. over 60 ohm betvin them. Theres a small iron pice that connects the two cores, but the rust has made a bad connection. Anyvay, I did change it.
Cleaned up the crank ventilation system when i already had the plenum of. Not clogged, but had som build up of ressidues. Good to have it done, as it has 65.Kmiles on it :)
Took it out for a run, and did go very vell :y
Did have the little shaking left, but much less then before, almost not noticable :)
Back in the garage, and then change the cranksensor, because someone said the pattern one isnt good.
And couldn't notice any diffrence ???
So.... there is new sparkplugs, leads, DIS pack, tempsensor and cranksensor, but still some random shaking left, but hardly noticeable :-\
Could it be that both my ICV is worn out, as they have over 250K miles on them?
Or could it be one or both cat's that are furbish???
I'm all out of ideas now, but car runs vell and pulls evenly from 1500rpm even in 5'th gear, so the power is back in my Omega now :y :y
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Happy news, problem solved ::)
easy as s..t actually. My diagnose equipment is to slow, or the refresh rate on live data is...
After the DIS pack change, and it was running on all sylinders again, I was able to concentrate on the live data from the MAF sensor.
When it started to shake, the air flow wandered from 11 to 20 kg/h, but only vissible in 1 out of 5 times.
So off it went and after a little ivestigation, it appeared to have some oil on it....( from the time when the car was taking a nap with the weels in the air)
Cleaned out with electronic cleaner, and then rinsed in destilled water. Now there is no shaking, but only something that remindes of a random misfire :y :y :y
I have read that the MAF sensor isn't very happy with oil, so is it damaged for good??