Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: pscocoa on 07 September 2011, 12:38:20
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Thought I just had a slow puncture but disaster.
Inner edge of both tyres worn down to wire - loads of tread elsewhere. Lower arms giving excessive play.
Quoted £295 all in for lower arms to be replaced.
P****d off about tyres as well.
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excessive wear on the inner edges is a sign that your camber is set too high (wheels lean in too far at the top). Once you have the new wishbones fitted then get the camber checked and adjusted ASAP.
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further investigation - wishbones appear ok.Just having geometry checked now - VX think tyres are faulty and have seen nothing like it. If nothing untoward in geometry they will lodge claim with Dunlop on my behalf. Having to change 3 P3000As to the Dunlop Sport Max - I could get them elsewhere for £113 but keeping it simple and having to pay £130 each - will hold on this til results of set up checked.
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further investigation - wishbones appear ok.Just having geometry checked now - VX think tyres are faulty and have seen nothing like it. If nothing untoward in geometry they will lodge claim with Dunlop on my behalf. Having to change 3 P3000As to the Dunlop Sport Max - I could get them elsewhere for £113 but keeping it simple and having to pay £130 each - will hold on this til results of set up checked.
Yeah, OK. :D
They don't get many old Omegas in then! ;D
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further investigation - wishbones appear ok.Just having geometry checked now - VX think tyres are faulty and have seen nothing like it. If nothing untoward in geometry they will lodge claim with Dunlop on my behalf. Having to change 3 P3000As to the Dunlop Sport Max - I could get them elsewhere for £113 but keeping it simple and having to pay £130 each - will hold on this til results of set up checked.
Yeah, OK. :D
They don't get many old Omegas in then! ;D
def geo imho.
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The problem is, the camber can be well within VX's specifications and still shred the inside edge of the tyre. Been there, got the Tee shirt. :(
Still, be interesting to hear what the outcome is. :y
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new tyres arrive tomorrow so advised to do geo only when new tyres fitted.
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Inner tyre wear is also caused by excessive Toe-out.
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new tyres arrive tomorrow so advised to do geo only when new tyres fitted.
Nope! Set the geo at Wim first!
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new tyres arrive tomorrow so advised to do geo only when new tyres fitted.
Nope! Set the geo at Wim first!
Although if your tyres are fubar you have no choice.
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new tyres arrive tomorrow so advised to do geo only when new tyres fitted.
Nope! Set the geo at Wim first!
Although if your tyres are fubar you have no choice.
Exactly the problem - no one is permitted to drive it as is
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Forgive me , why go to WIM before tyres ?
Do they need to see the bad, unequal wear to assist with the individual set up for your car ?
Planning a trip soon and I need new tyres all round.
Thanks
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The problem is, the camber can be well within VX's specifications and still shred the inside edge of the tyre. Been there, got the Tee shirt. :(
Still, be interesting to hear what the outcome is. :y
Is there an ideal geo? I used to work at a place modding Monaros VXR8s Corvettes and we had specific set-ups to go to AND we had to be spot-on with the numbers but it makes ALL the difference....
My car is lowered and trying to find somebody who will take the same level of attention is sooooo hard!
I'm going to take mine to a specialist....!
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Is there an ideal geo? I used to work at a place modding Monaros VXR8s Corvettes and we had specific set-ups to go to AND we had to be spot-on with the numbers but it makes ALL the difference....
My car is lowered and trying to find somebody who will take the same level of attention is sooooo hard!
I'm going to take mine to a specialist....!
Not really.. The setup is very sensitive to ride height so as the suspension ages it needs to be adjusted. As a starting point, -1o10' of camber should be a safe setting for a standard car, but if you've lowered it all bets may well be off.
I would advise taking it to Tony at Wheels In Motion http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk. He knows his onions and will be able to look at the setup and decide how it needs to be aligned.
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piccies
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34956042/Tres%20D%20Blissett%20001%20%282%29.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34956042/Tres%20D%20Blissett%20002%20%282%29.jpg)
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turns out tracking has gone massively out - they cannot think why unless steering box is giving a problem - all set up - will just have to recheck position in a month.
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Forgive me , why go to WIM before tyres ?
Do they need to see the bad, unequal wear to assist with the individual set up for your car ?
Planning a trip soon and I need new tyres all round.
Thanks
Because if the set up is off enough it will ware the brand new tyres as well, and they will forever show that wear.
If fitting new suspension either lowered or replacement it's worth leaving the old tyres on for a month if possible to allow the suspension to settle or sag in. Springs spend their life on the shelf and then find they have to hold up 1700kg of omega. They will take a while to settle to their true ride hight. Wim recommend a full geo check every year iirc due to normal sag anyway.
Should add, if lowering it's also worth attempting the correct settings via methods covered in the guides as best you can.
Once it's all settled in, set up and your happy, then fit new tyres knowing the set up won't wear them unevenly and cause issue such as those pictured, which can easily lead to blow out if not spotted.
Obviously in the op's case he willhave to suffer any wear while driving to Wim.
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Forgive me , why go to WIM before tyres ?
Do they need to see the bad, unequal wear to assist with the individual set up for your car ?
Planning a trip soon and I need new tyres all round.
Thanks
Because if the set up is off enough it will ware the brand new tyres as well, and they will forever show that wear.
If fitting new suspension either lowered or replacement it's worth leaving the old tyres on for a month if possible to allow the suspension to settle or sag in. Springs spend their life on the shelf and then find they have to hold up 1700kg of omega. They will take a while to settle to their true ride hight. Wim recommend a full geo check every year iirc due to normal sag anyway.
Should add, if lowering it's also worth attempting the correct settings via methods covered in the guides as best you can.
Once it's all settled in, set up and your happy, then fit new tyres knowing the set up won't wear them unevenly and cause issue such as those pictured, which can easily lead to blow out if not spotted.
Obviously in the op's case he willhave to suffer any wear while driving to Wim.
...also, as you say. Wim will adjust the base setting of 1.10 for stock omega suspension if they see tyre wear that warrants it. Sports suspension gets a more aggressive 1.20 which on mine shows outside edge wear as well. So I suspect they may up it to 1.30 or even to irmschers recommended 1.40.
However I have rotated the front tyres to the back to even up the wear. So that will confuse them. ;D
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turns out tracking has gone massively out - they cannot think why unless steering box is giving a problem - all set up - will just have to recheck position in a month.
If by tracking they mean toe and only toe, I would get that to Wheels In Motion for a proper setup. That wear is a result of excessive camber, IMHO.
Have they given you a printout of the before-and-after suspension settings?
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turns out tracking has gone massively out - they cannot think why unless steering box is giving a problem - all set up - will just have to recheck position in a month.
If by tracking they mean toe and only toe, I would get that to Wheels In Motion for a proper setup. That wear is a result of excessive camber, IMHO.
Have they given you a printout of the before-and-after suspension settings?
Dealers do not have facility to check camber. So will blame toe/tracking by default as the know no better. You have a camber issue as Kev says.
I don't suppose, without reading the whole thread again, that they checked wishbone bushes at all?
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turns out tracking has gone massively out - they cannot think why unless steering box is giving a problem - all set up - will just have to recheck position in a month.
If by tracking they mean toe and only toe, I would get that to Wheels In Motion for a proper setup. That wear is a result of excessive camber, IMHO.
Have they given you a printout of the before-and-after suspension settings?
Will get car and print out tomorrow.
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turns out tracking has gone massively out - they cannot think why unless steering box is giving a problem - all set up - will just have to recheck position in a month.
If by tracking they mean toe and only toe, I would get that to Wheels In Motion for a proper setup. That wear is a result of excessive camber, IMHO.
Have they given you a printout of the before-and-after suspension settings?
Dealers do not have facility to check camber. So will blame toe/tracking by default as the know no better. You have a camber issue as Kev says.
I don't suppose, without reading the whole thread again, that they checked wishbone bushes at all?
Not really got the option to put old tyres back as one has slow puncture and one of tyres regarded as lethal.
Will just bite the bullet on this and think about WIM visit.
Do you have a view on the steering box theory just assuming WIM were to confirm set up ok?
Wishbones etc checked out and ruled out as causing a problem of this severity. All this has happened in 4000 miles - potholes???
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turns out tracking has gone massively out - they cannot think why unless steering box is giving a problem - all set up - will just have to recheck position in a month.
If by tracking they mean toe and only toe, I would get that to Wheels In Motion for a proper setup. That wear is a result of excessive camber, IMHO.
Have they given you a printout of the before-and-after suspension settings?
Dealers do not have facility to check camber. So will blame toe/tracking by default as the know no better. You have a camber issue as Kev says.
I don't suppose, without reading the whole thread again, that they checked wishbone bushes at all?
Not really got the option to put old tyres back as one has slow puncture and one of tyres regarded as lethal.
Will just bite the bullet on this and think about WIM visit.
Do you have a view on the steering box theory just assuming WIM were to confirm set up ok?
Wishbones etc checked out and ruled out as causing a problem of this severity. All this has happened in 4000 miles - potholes???
Steering box itself won't cause that. However play in the connecting rods to it might. Easily spotted. Where the toe adjusters tight?
Still think it's camber though.
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Thanks Chris - I will heed this advice on camber. Will ask re toe adjusters but think they looked at all this. No harm in asking again though.
Kevin - you posted a few months ago on WIM local to me and you - did you have good experience there or did you go further afield??
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Thanks Chris - I will heed this advice on camber. Will ask re toe adjusters but think they looked at all this. No harm in asking again though.
Kevin - you posted a few months ago on WIM local to me and you - did you have good experience there or did you go further afield??
hi there, is WIM just one place in chesham or is there more then one branch? there bowt a hundread miles away from me. if poss i would like to visit a branch closer. the link on my original query shows a website called black boots which lists companys that do the geometry set-up but there all called different names, theres a couple that are very close to salisbury, wiltshire but can anyone advise wether they would recommend the other comapnys or just bite the bullet and travel to wheels in motion in chesham?
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WIM Chesham have recently franchised their operation out to various blackboots branches around the country. ;)
Several on here still seem to think its worthwhile taking the trip to Chesham, but its entirely up to you and your own circumstances etc. :y
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As I said in my earlier reply, Toe being out especially if as bad as been stated will cause inner tyre wear to both tyres.
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geo result - toe adjusters ok
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34956042/omegageo%20002.jpg)
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Looks like the camber is way out as well.
:(
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green means it is "in spec"
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green means it is "in spec"
Nope! Well, not to wims spec. As said previosly camber should be- 1.10, yours is almost one entire degree too aggressive. 60 minutes to 1degree so 0.50 too much camber. I hope that is a before reading, not after set up...?
Toe settings show the steering wheel to be off centre. But when driven straight the combined toe of -16 is not too far off the desire -10 mins. There is an allowed error of +or- 10mins. So although can be improved, it is acceptable. Bar the off centre steering wheel.
So as said, excess camber caused your tyre wear issue.
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Appologies, re read the toe settings. Miss read the scale on the right. +22 is not good either. :(
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Yes - green is within somebody's spec, probably even within Vauxhall's spec for a new car. But I can tell you from personal experience that -2 degrees front camber will definitely wear the insides off your front tyres.
:(
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The toe doesn't look that bad. As said, most of the "massive error" they are worrying about is because the steering wheel has been clamped in a slightly different position to when it was last set up.
22 mins on one side and -9 on the other, so in the true ahead position there's 13 mins of total toe in, or 6.5' ish each side.
Camber, on the other hand, whilst in the "green", experience says that is likely to cause rapid wear on an Omega with well bedded-in suspension.
STS on the A30 in Blackwater are a WIM franchise. I have used them but only for tyres. I would probably go to Chesham for alignment, TBH.
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I have a matching set of tyres like yours ;D
break me, camber is way off, and exactly matches the damage to the tyres. This is the problem with people who don't know what they are doing.
I suggest a visit to WIM in Chesham, and when you book (booking is essential), mention OOF for our club discount (only available at Chesham) :y
No amount of tracking adjustments will cure that problem, no matter what garages say about 'within spec'
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I am a little concerned that we are comparing apples with apples. I am quite happy to trot off to Chesham but am just checking whether there are any differences between the late model Elite V6 which has a "Sports Suspension" and earlier Elite models as VX are admant the camber setting is correct for my chassis number
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I am a little concerned that we are comparing apples with apples. I am quite happy to trot off to Chesham but am just checking whether there are any differences between the late model Elite V6 which has a "Sports Suspension" and earlier Elite models as VX are admant the camber setting is correct for my chassis number
The GM figures are wrong ;). Thats the issue. And that is what has ruined your tyres.
Been there myself, wrecking tyres in 6k, plenty on tread, but canvas on inner shoulder edge. Everyone failed to resolve it, except WIM.
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Go to Wim.
We've all been there and got the t shirt re tyre wear issues.
Car model makes no odds. Vx settings are so wide a tolerance as to be worse than useless. This whole story is as old as the hills.
Wim will account for set up for any sports suspension.
Std is -1.10.
Sports -1.20 maybe more depending.
Wim! Job done! Although get them to check bushes and ball joints etc just to be sure. Never trust a vx hoody! ;)
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The suggested GM settings work fine when the car is newish, as the suspension ages the coils become much more fluid thus adding dynamic gains to the camber position.
In addition the front camber tolerance is vast, oddly vast, so there's loads of opportunity for the final positions to be too deep if the technician only looks at the colours.
The front camber on the Omega is adjustable so all we are really interested in is the target position not the tolerance.
Years back i researched a new front camber position that would encompass most cars in the realm of "worn" suspension. After about a year the final position of -1 degree 10' with the car unladen worked.
The OEM suggestion is -1 degree 40' with 140kg added in the car. It could be said setting the chassis to -1 degree 10' unladen would be deeper than the 1 degree 40' loaded but this does not take into account the fluid dynamics on worn coils.
Hope that helps?
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Thanks for all the input - I will have to make the Chesham trip