Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: Chris123 on 26 April 2008, 12:40:36

Title: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Chris123 on 26 April 2008, 12:40:36
Hi all,

Have a 96 3.0 Elite, which I love but it has "one or two" electrical problems... would be very grateful for any wisdom you can offer...

Bit of history first....
Battery was draining rather too fast (about a week of non-use)
A while ago, fuse 14 blew and PAS went with it, blew again when replaced, but I tried again at some point later Fuse and PAS ok.
Broke my arm, left the car off the road with battery disconnected for a year.
Today, got a new battery planning to get the car going again.
(Before anyone asks yes it was the right battery and the polarity was correct)

On connecting the battery, I was expecting the alarm to go off, but it did not. Instead, something chucked out a load of white smoke and a burning smell (coming from somewhere down low drivers side of the engine). I yanked the battery connection off again, then on advice connected it again to work out where the smoke had been coming from. On reconnecting the battery, there was no more smoke or burning smell, the interior fan started up, the recirculate and eco aircon lights were lit, but none of the others, dashboard indicator lights were both on solid not blinking, the actual indicators were not on. Turning the key started the windscreen wipers even though they were not switched on, starting attempt didn't sound like it was doing much at all.

I'm afraid I'm really not technical so please bear with me.

I guess the basic question is what to do now? Assuming some very ugly things have happened with the electrics, what sort of cost would I be looking at to get this sort of thing checked etc / repaired?

Very grateful for any advice you can offer! Basically trying to work out whether to write it off or invest a bit of cash in getting it looked at.

Chris
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Weds on 26 April 2008, 13:22:51
Well obviously you need to find the source of the fire/smoke, could you have had mice or some other inhabitants chewing some of the cables.

I suspect some of the cable cores have shorted together causing things like your wipers working when not switched on.

Hopefully the damage is contained in the engine bay and not behind the dash..
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: FRE07962128 on 26 April 2008, 13:38:42
Quote
Hi all,

Have a 96 3.0 Elite, which I love but it has "one or two" electrical problems... would be very grateful for any wisdom you can offer...

Bit of history first....
Battery was draining rather too fast (about a week of non-use)
A while ago, fuse 14 blew and PAS went with it, blew again when replaced, but I tried again at some point later Fuse and PAS ok.
Broke my arm, left the car off the road with battery disconnected for a year.
Today, got a new battery planning to get the car going again.
(Before anyone asks yes it was the right battery and the polarity was correct)

On connecting the battery, I was expecting the alarm to go off, but it did not. Instead, something chucked out a load of white smoke and a burning smell (coming from somewhere down low drivers side of the engine). I yanked the battery connection off again, then on advice connected it again to work out where the smoke had been coming from. On reconnecting the battery, there was no more smoke or burning smell, the interior fan started up, the recirculate and eco aircon lights were lit, but none of the others, dashboard indicator lights were both on solid not blinking, the actual indicators were not on. Turning the key started the windscreen wipers even though they were not switched on, starting attempt didn't sound like it was doing much at all.

I'm afraid I'm really not technical so please bear with me.

I guess the basic question is what to do now? Assuming some very ugly things have happened with the electrics, what sort of cost would I be looking at to get this sort of thing checked etc / repaired?

Very grateful for any advice you can offer! Basically trying to work out whether to write it off or invest a bit of cash in getting it looked at.

Chris

Vx (in Ashford) will charge £75 per hour to investigate plus repair costs!  

Try and sort it out yourself by checking all leads and fuses (what have blown this time?) back from source to equipment.  It certainly seems like a short of some kind, and because of the fire risk I would not leave the battery connected until you are sure of the problem. :'(

Hope you find the answer! :y

Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: HolyCount on 26 April 2008, 14:00:15
Judging by the apparent amount of shorting, there has to be a block of cable somewhere in the engine bay or nearby showing fire damage --- melted insulation at least. First action would be keep battery disconnected, then trace wires around as far as possible looking for the source of the smoke.
Hopefully you might be able to cut and splice the damaged section.
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: VXL V6 on 26 April 2008, 14:24:13
Could be anything really, It may be the power sounder trying to charge it's internal batteries up (Which are probably leaking) now a new main battery has been fitted.

If you put your location on your profile there may be someone near to you who can help.  :y
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Chris123 on 27 April 2008, 14:38:48
Thanks very much for your help everyone. I'll let you know how I get on... :-)
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 April 2008, 22:27:49
Sounds to me like something has shorted a permanent ignition feed to a switched feed, amongst other things. On the driver's side, my first suspicion would be the power sounder as, on mine, conductive goo from leaking batteries shorted some connections in the power sounder.

Next suspect would be the connections to the power steering box, as that has blown fuses.

As others have said, see if you can find the burnt wiring.

Kevin
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Chris123 on 30 April 2008, 11:46:21
Hi all,

I've decided it's time for a non-mechanically-electrically minded chap like me to say a fond farewell to this car and shop for a newer one.

If you're interested, I am disposing of the old one, either through scrap or through this forum, see my other thread here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1209552261/0

Thanks for the help anyway, may your omegas run forever!

Chris
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Debs. on 30 April 2008, 11:59:09
Quote
Hi all,

I've decided it's time for a non-mechanically-electrically minded chap like me to say a fond farewell to this car and shop for a newer one.

If you're interested, I am disposing of the old one, either through scrap or through this forum, see my other thread here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1209552261/0

Thanks for the help anyway, may your omegas run forever!

Chris
Thread Hijack  :'(
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Chris123 on 30 April 2008, 12:45:04
You're saying I'm hijacking my own thread?

Chris
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Debs. on 30 April 2008, 12:50:06
 :-[ Apologies
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Chris123 on 30 April 2008, 12:51:07
No worries, just thought it was funny actually :-)

Chris
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: HolyCount on 30 April 2008, 19:38:47
Quote
Quote
Hi all,

I've decided it's time for a non-mechanically-electrically minded chap like me to say a fond farewell to this car and shop for a newer one.

If you're interested, I am disposing of the old one, either through scrap or through this forum, see my other thread here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1209552261/0

Thanks for the help anyway, may your omegas run forever!

Chris
Thread Hijack  :'(

Debs are you getting trigger happy ?
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Debs. on 30 April 2008, 19:43:20
Quote
....Debs are you getting trigger happy ?

 :-[ `Having a bad-day H.C.....in my defence; I`m going to be without my car for a week now, `very upsetting!  :'(
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: MutantCav on 16 May 2008, 18:33:31
Update on this thread, just bought the car from Chris (would have gone round to see if I could sort it out for him if I wasnt so far away)...towed it back to parents house about 10 miles away, very nice looking car, good condition, excellent interior, 99k FSH MOT's verifying milage...had a quick look over when I got it home to see if there was anything obvious...

One thing stood out...battery was in place with the connectors unplugged...but the battery was the wrong way around (swapped a few recently so I knew which way round it should be, not as obvious as it should be normally)...swapped battery round, fired up first time...bit of white smoke coming from the back of the drivers side corner of the engine...think its steam though from a small pool of water accumulated on the top of the cam cover...not had it running for long but seems ok for the moment :) Will check it out properly tomorrow...
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: MutantCav on 16 May 2008, 18:58:14
Only issues seem to be the battery light being on, at first a slight glow but now full on...knackered or seized alternator (as its sat for months??) or maybe the aux belt as there is a slight squeel from it at times??? Engine itself though sounds sweet as a nut! And its manual!!!
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 May 2008, 19:47:39
Quote
Only issues seem to be the battery light being on, at first a slight glow but now full on...knackered or seized alternator (as its sat for months??) or maybe the aux belt as there is a slight squeel from it at times??? Engine itself though sounds sweet as a nut! And its manual!!!

Almost certainly fried alternator. Reverse connection of the battery will have mullered the rectifier diodes. They have probably gone short circuit and burnt out the windings too, causing excessive load on the belt. That's probably where the smoke was coming from.

Kevin
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: MutantCav on 16 May 2008, 19:51:39
Yep sounds about right...I have a spare alternator in the garage at home...but still thinking its best to strip it anyway as thats what I bought it for...and for a couple of parts I need...but even sorted and MOT'd I doubt its worth much more than £500-600 and only then because its a 3.0 manual which will be more in demand...
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Mike Collins on 16 May 2008, 22:24:03
Reverse connected battery could have damaged any unswitched devices, plus if ignition turned on, almost anything. Does not sound good.
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: MutantCav on 16 May 2008, 23:09:17
Doesnt seem to have affected anything else so far thankfully although radio not working...most likely blown fuse which I will check tomorrow :)
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Chris123 on 17 May 2008, 10:17:01
Good god, I was sure I had it the right way round... absolutely positive, took one out and put the other straight back in... What a plank!

Well, fair play to you, enjoy your bargain and happy motoring, I'm going shopping for something I never ever ever have to open the bonnet on... perhaps a golf cart... :-)

Chris
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 May 2008, 10:40:30
All the electrical items 'should' be protected from reverse voltage damage either by internal series diodes or on the higher power items a diode across the supply so when reverse polarity is connected, it takes the fuse out (e.g. radio).

The alternator shouldn't get the diode fried as the reverse voltage on them will be many 100's V's.......not to sure what the rectifier might think though!
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: MutantCav on 18 May 2008, 07:46:00
Cheers Mark, didnt think about the fuse yesterday, your right, should sort the stereo out and it has the code with it :) Not bothered about the alternator as I'm stripping the car anyway and the engine runs nicely...I actually thought the engine had been stripped when I bought it so its a pleasant surprise to find that not only as it not been but its up and running now :) Not driven a 3.0 manual before...WOW, how nice is it!!!
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: bighed on 18 May 2008, 09:49:37
I feel really sorry for chris123 but feel happy for chris.  ;D mixed emotion overload!!!!  ;D :D :y
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: MutantCav on 18 May 2008, 09:53:18
Yeah I know what you mean bighed...its a shame when something so simple is the cause, didnt realise till I got back to my parents and was looking around to see what the cause might be...still at least the engine will now get to serve its purpose rather than ending up as scrap :)
Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: Chris123 on 18 May 2008, 22:02:23
Thanks Bighed and Chris,

I can live with my own foolishness, Chris made a fair offer and I would otherwise have just scrapped it. I've no objection to him making some money out of his skills, with my lack of knowledge it would have cost too much to bother putting it back on the road.

Still confused about how I got the battery wrong but isn't it funny it's always the things you're so certain about that get you in trouble! There's a lesson there I guess!

Cheers lads, over and out - I'm thinking I'll be off to toyota owners next :)

Chris123

Title: Re: Smoke, Dash lights and electrical badness
Post by: bighed on 19 May 2008, 19:42:59
T R A I T O R  >:( ;D