Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: sev on 22 July 2008, 10:21:50

Title: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: sev on 22 July 2008, 10:21:50
has anybody had experience of this, or is it too good to be true?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140250648994&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT&refitem=140248727616&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m183&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DS%252BI%26itu%3DUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D4
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: markey mark on 22 July 2008, 10:42:46
feedback looks good for money its a bargain :y
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: mark3 on 22 July 2008, 11:10:41
its got me interested!
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Entwood on 22 July 2008, 11:40:32
Just wonder what that would do to the AR25 box .....  might last about a week ???

I'm happy with 217 BHP   :)
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 July 2008, 11:54:15
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Just wonder what that would do to the AR25 box .....  might last about a week ???

I'm happy with 217 BHP   :)

Nothing, the 2.5 develops a peek of 227NM of torque and the chip is unlikely to do much to increase this, the AR25 is rated to a minimum of 250NM of torque.  :y
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Entwood on 22 July 2008, 12:02:08
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Just wonder what that would do to the AR25 box .....  might last about a week ???

I'm happy with 217 BHP   :)

Nothing, the 2.5 develops a peek of 227NM of torque and the chip is unlikely to do much to increase this, the AR25 is rated to a minimum of 250NM of torque.  :y

do you really mean "minimum" ??? I suspect its a maximum ...  :)

From the advert :

Quote
The power gains are very appreciable, up to 191HP and 261NM on engine with stock camshafts

I guess just 11 Nm over the top is not a great deal, but I'd be concerned .... :(

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: zirk on 22 July 2008, 12:15:39
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has anybody had experience of this, or is it too good to be true?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140250648994&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT&refitem=140248727616&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m183&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DS%252BI%26itu%3DUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D4

Ive got a Superchip in my MV6 3.0, cant honestly say I notice much difference (supose to be about 15 to 20 BHP more). Maybe slightly better MPG.


I got a Courtney Chip on its way, to see if thats any better.

I think with this sort of thing you really only notice the difference (if any) is when you drive for a while and then put them back to standard!.

Post back your findings if you go ahead :y
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 July 2008, 12:17:30
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I guess just 11 Nm over the top is not a great deal, but I'd be concerned .... :(

 ;D ;D ;D

I'd be very surprised if it made anything like that. Peak torque is largely relative to engine capacity. It generally peaks at low revs with standard cams so how well the engine is breathing doesn't really come into it because the air flow rate is relatively low.

You might improve it a little over standard by running a less "safe" ignition map (although on an efficient engine like the V6 it's unlikely to need critical levels of ignition advance to make best torque). You are not going to increase it by 15% that's for sure.

Kevin
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Dave DND on 22 July 2008, 13:54:39
I had a similar thing (superchip) fitted to a Discovery TD5 a few years ago. Mildly improved the throttle response, but did wonders for the fuel economy !

The only problem I had was that the extra MPG was often cancelled by the extra weight that had now been added to my right foot.

 :-/
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 July 2008, 14:32:15
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I had a similar thing (superchip) fitted to a Discovery TD5 a few years ago. Mildly improved the throttle response, but did wonders for the fuel economy !

The only problem I had was that the extra MPG was often cancelled by the extra weight that had now been added to my right foot.

 :-/

Turbocharged engines (petrol or tractor) are a totally different kettle of fish, of course. Much more potential to tune them.

Kevin

Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 July 2008, 14:36:06
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Quote
Quote
Just wonder what that would do to the AR25 box .....  might last about a week ???

I'm happy with 217 BHP   :)

Nothing, the 2.5 develops a peek of 227NM of torque and the chip is unlikely to do much to increase this, the AR25 is rated to a minimum of 250NM of torque.  :y

do you really mean "minimum" ??? I suspect its a maximum ...  :)

From the advert :

Quote
The power gains are very appreciable, up to 191HP and 261NM on engine with stock camshafts

I guess just 11 Nm over the top is not a great deal, but I'd be concerned .... :(

 ;D ;D ;D

No, I mean the minimum torque that it will continuously tolerate is 250NM but, likely to be higher than that.....

And if that chip makes that sort of gain in torque I would be very surprised!

Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: sev on 22 July 2008, 15:17:29
if this improves the MPG, it's worth the 50 quid alone. I can't really see as has been said, how the torque and bhp can be improved by the claimed figures, but if the fuelling is sorted then that's great.  I'm seeing around 22mpg according to my display at the moment, and while I understand it's a V6, high 20's would be nice.
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: tmx on 22 July 2008, 19:45:04
i bought one of these and it made the engine and tourqe delivery smoother got rid of the flatspots

it made the fuel economy worse lost 3mpg


Had my car dyno'd but im at internet cafe so cant post dyno readouts but can emasil them to ppl if you pm me

but i gained 9 bhp and 15lb/ft of tourqe that was on a 3.0 MV6 though
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Jay w on 23 July 2008, 17:44:22
in my younger days i spent a lot of time tuning the 2.5XE, it is a really responsive engine when the right mods are done and it does respond well to tuning.

However 191 from a chip alone is a very tall order, i would expect to see 10% from a chip, then add the cams and a good airfilter that has a cold air feed and i would be looking at 200bhp.

Throttle bodies, porting, sports exhausts and a few other little tuning tricks would see another 25/30 bhp but then you are into the realms of spending large amounts of money on internal components that will be able to keep up with the rest of the set up


Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: TheBoy on 23 July 2008, 18:22:26
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if this improves the MPG, it's worth the 50 quid alone. I can't really see as has been said, how the torque and bhp can be improved by the claimed figures, but if the fuelling is sorted then that's great.  I'm seeing around 22mpg according to my display at the moment, and while I understand it's a V6, high 20's would be nice.
The mpg difference will not be in that sort of order. It will be minimal - 1mpg at best.
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: tmx on 23 July 2008, 19:22:00
petrol is cheap again now thanks asda  :y :y :y :y :y :y :y

now we dont need to conserve it as much
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: sev on 23 July 2008, 19:27:59
lol, is that right!

I'm old fashioned... i'd still like to see mid to high 20's!  (still she is carting around 2 tonnes plus!)

I also struggle to see how electronics can really bump up those figures, I'm still a believer in high compression, well gasflowed and valved normally aspirated engines to get power.
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 July 2008, 21:58:00
Electronics make massive differences..........it guarantess the correct fuel air mix, the right ignition point nad adjusts and maintains these optimum settings for the life of the engine.

This makes a big difference to economy!
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Jimbob on 24 July 2008, 08:00:16
Put a decent chip in.

Drive exactly the same.....you WILL get more economy

Drive harder, you will get more performance, but no worse economy  :D

They are Win / Win
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: tmx on 24 July 2008, 17:15:10
fuel econmy is worse with my chip!
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: TheBoy on 25 July 2008, 19:07:30
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Put a decent chip in.

Drive exactly the same.....you WILL get more economy

Drive harder, you will get more performance, but no worse economy  :D

They are Win / Win
Not sure I agree with the drive harder bit - the MV6 can suck through significant amounts of petrol when I'm in the mood
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: sev on 25 July 2008, 23:32:26
Quote
Electronics make massive differences..........it guarantess the correct fuel air mix, the right ignition point nad adjusts and maintains these optimum settings for the life of the engine.

This makes a big difference to economy!


Oh I appreciate that, but I'm talking about the monster power gains that chip manufacturers talk about.
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: TheBoy on 26 July 2008, 15:23:57
Quote
Quote
Electronics make massive differences..........it guarantess the correct fuel air mix, the right ignition point nad adjusts and maintains these optimum settings for the life of the engine.

This makes a big difference to economy!


Oh I appreciate that, but I'm talking about the monster power gains that chip manufacturers talk about.
Up to 10% is probably achievable but mapping fuel/ignition.

On turbocharged engines, there is far more scope for big increases.
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: sev on 26 July 2008, 20:26:50
sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

I need to get all my tables out to see what this 2.5 can really do with tickling!

Surely even fuel mapping to be effective really needs a good rolling road and a programmable ecu to maximise the potential?

Little horsepower costs big money, and big horsepower costs even bigger money! - that's what I remember!
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: philhoward on 26 July 2008, 22:54:58
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sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

Isn't that just then"Sport" button on the latest Vx's?  DIdn't notice any difference on an Astra SRi, bar sharper throttle response..didn't go any quicker overall!
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 26 July 2008, 23:22:21
Quote
sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

I need to get all my tables out to see what this 2.5 can really do with tickling!

Surely even fuel mapping to be effective really needs a good rolling road and a programmable ecu to maximise the potential?

Little horsepower costs big money, and big horsepower costs even bigger money! - that's what I remember!

Throttle response is deliberately damped in modern cars to help emissions, and, of course, it might make the engine feel more powerful, but it makes very little difference on  the road.

In addition, ignition timing is deliberately conservative (less so with the introduction of knock sensors) although an efficient engine shouldn't need to run hazardous levels of ignition advance anyway.

A little powern can be gained by mapping the engine with regard only to power output and not to emissions.

Remember the manufacturer has to get the car through type approval which involves everything that comes out of the exhaust from a cold start being analysed over a simulated test drive.

I would hope these chips have been developed on a rolling road - once you're down to getting the last few percent out of an engine you simply can't do it by "seat of the pants" but for 50 quid, who knows what you're getting?

And, ideally, you would get each engine set up on a rolling road because no two are the same. Not a difficult or expensive exercise if you have a mappable ECU, of course....

Kevin
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: markey mark on 27 July 2008, 01:17:01
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Quote
sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

I need to get all my tables out to see what this 2.5 can really do with tickling!

Surely even fuel mapping to be effective really needs a good rolling road and a programmable ecu to maximise the potential?

Little horsepower costs big money, and big horsepower costs even bigger money! - that's what I remember!

Throttle response is deliberately damped in modern cars to help emissions, and, of course, it might make the engine feel more powerful, but it makes very little difference on  the road.

In addition, ignition timing is deliberately conservative (less so with the introduction of knock sensors) although an efficient engine shouldn't need to run hazardous levels of ignition advance anyway.

A little powern can be gained by mapping the engine with regard only to power output and not to emissions.

Remember the manufacturer has to get the car through type approval which involves everything that comes out of the exhaust from a cold start being analysed over a simulated test drive.

I would hope these chips have been developed on a rolling road - once you're down to getting the last few percent out of an engine you simply can't do it by "seat of the pants" but for 50 quid, who knows what you're getting?

And, ideally, you would get each engine set up on a rolling road because no two are the same. Not a difficult or expensive exercise if you have a mappable ECU, of course....

Kevin

rolling road mapping is bloody expensive kevin ! for £50 for a chip i think its a bargain even if you get half of what they are qouting bud !  ::) you are looking at £90ish an hour for live mapping !!  :-?
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: markey mark on 27 July 2008, 01:17:47
Quote
Quote
sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

Isn't that just then"Sport" button on the latest Vx's?  DIdn't notice any difference on an Astra SRi, bar sharper throttle response..didn't go any quicker overall!

what do you want for a button ?????  :P
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: philhoward on 27 July 2008, 08:23:59
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Quote
Quote
sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

Isn't that just then"Sport" button on the latest Vx's?  DIdn't notice any difference on an Astra SRi, bar sharper throttle response..didn't go any quicker overall!

what do you want for a button ?????  :P
Preferably what it says on it...guess you can't polish a turd...
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: ngrainqey on 27 July 2008, 12:47:21
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Quote
Quote
Quote
sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

Isn't that just then"Sport" button on the latest Vx's?  DIdn't notice any difference on an Astra SRi, bar sharper throttle response..didn't go any quicker overall!

what do you want for a button ?????  :P
Preferably what it says on it...guess you can't polish a turd...

havin a ls1 V8 runnin on 4 cylinders till ya hit sport button would be a bit more fun :P

"hold on love i just need to change from grandad mode to sport mode"
:P
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 July 2008, 19:16:50
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Quote
Quote
Quote
sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

Isn't that just then"Sport" button on the latest Vx's?  DIdn't notice any difference on an Astra SRi, bar sharper throttle response..didn't go any quicker overall!

what do you want for a button ?????  :P
Preferably what it says on it...guess you can't polish a turd...

Can't see the point of these "sport" buttons. Total gimmick. What does it tell the ECU that an accelerator pedal embedded in the carpet doesn't?  ;D

Kevin
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Bandit127 on 27 July 2008, 20:10:31
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if this improves the MPG, it's worth the 50 quid alone. I can't really see as has been said, how the torque and bhp can be improved by the claimed figures, but if the fuelling is sorted then that's great.  I'm seeing around 22mpg according to my display at the moment, and while I understand it's a V6, high 20's would be nice.
To get high 20's mpg from this chip, simply place it in your right shoe, spiky side up, before driving.  :)

Mine is currently doing 27.4 (MV6 auto).
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: sev on 27 July 2008, 21:10:34
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now you're just showing off!
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 July 2008, 22:05:32
Mine's only doing 20MPG these days... :(

Fuel's half price though. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: Performance chip UPG - Too good to be true?
Post by: Ian_D on 27 July 2008, 23:49:10
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
sure, but from a plug in 50 quid chip?  it's a bit like when you dynojetted your bike, what you actually saw was throttle response and free breathing, and mistook it all for big power.

Isn't that just then"Sport" button on the latest Vx's?  DIdn't notice any difference on an Astra SRi, bar sharper throttle response..didn't go any quicker overall!

what do you want for a button ?????  :P
Preferably what it says on it...guess you can't polish a turd...

havin a ls1 V8 runnin on 4 cylinders till ya hit sport button would be a bit more fun :P

"hold on love i just need to change from grandad mode to sport mode"
:P

Now THAT really would be the dogs thingys!  :y

 ;D