Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: murse on 21 October 2008, 19:28:48
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Hi guys :)
Have participated in a few thread discussions re stereo upgrades as well as reading back and am still not sure on this one.
What is the difference between the facelift stereo systems in terms of quality?
The reason I ask is my Omega has the standard CDC2006 4-disc head unit. To me ears this sounds vastly superior to any factory fit unit I have heard before - especially in terms of bass reproduction. I do not yet know if the speakers are stock or have at some point been upgraded, but they do sound pretty nice, lacking id midrange though.
Obviously the standard units complement the interior and work perfectly with the wheel controls & GID so I am not keen to change without a good reason. So - what would the options be with regards upgrading to a Bose setup? I have read previously this is not compatible with the 2006 head unit, not sure what it does work with?
Would this be a better option than splicing in a small active sub and if necessary upgrading the speakers? Have an old 200w Pioneer tube knocking about which needs a home. I figure it is probably only worth upgrading the head unit when the budget allows for a fancy 7" screen integrated satnav which is what I really want.
Does the Bose offer such a massive increase in sound quality that it is worth the hassle (and if so anyone got one for sale ;D)? How much of a job is it to splice in to the car (2000 saloon)?
At the moment my initial plan is to bung a set of 6.5" JBL speakers which I already have into the front doors, connect the sub and see how it sounds (unless I find something better in the doors).
Some advice would be much appreciated before I start - just how do the standard Vauxhall setups compare to (modest) aftermarket replacements? The 2006 heads seem to change hands for insane amounts of money on ebay...
Really sorry for all the questions - hope I make sense! ::)
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Bose is compatible with CDR2006 - the stereo needs a quick chat with a Tech2 to flick it into Bose mode.
If you fit Bose amp, you really need to fit Bose speakers - 4 in doors, and 2 in shelf (saloon)/1 in boot(estate)
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Thanks for reply TheBoy.
Is it just the main 4 speakers - what about the tweeters?
What is 'special' about the Bose amp and why does the HU need to be in a different mode? Not come across much in car Bose stuff, but I know their clock radios are really good!
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Thanks for reply TheBoy.
Is it just the main 4 speakers - what about the tweeters?
What is 'special' about the Bose amp and why does the HU need to be in a different mode? Not come across much in car Bose stuff, but I know their clock radios are really good!
Tweeters are the same.
Bose needs an odd level - not amped, and not line level.
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BOSE was a reasonably good upgrade in its day, but that day was over a decade ago !!
Everything about it though is non-standard - input voltages are different to everything else, hence the requirement of having the head unit converted with Tech2 and they used 2 Ohm speakers which are not really conclusive to good quality (ask any hi fi enthusiast)
By all means keep the original head unit to retain the stock look an feel of the car, but don`t gofor the hassle inretro fitting BOSE, as an aftermarket amp and a decent set of speakers will notonly be aeasier and cheaper to fit, but will offer a vastly superior sound
;)
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Thanks for replies.
So - 4 ohm good, 2 ohms bad? The JBL GTOs I was going to put in the front are 2 ohm - best to change them? IIRC it was one of their selling points!
Regarding keeping the head unit. My old Mondy had an awful sounding HU despite being top of the range with an amp attached to it - my friendly local ICE specialist informed me this was because the factory heads often have a restricted EQ curve to stop customers blowing the crappy speakers and claiming under warranty - they sold a 'corrector' for this but at about £200 so easier to replace the lot. Do you know if this is the case with the Vauxhall units?
Many thanks :D
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CCR2006 sounds reasonable with a decent amp, so I doubt they've deliberately clobbered the frequency response. FM radio is not the best in the world, though, IMHO.
If you're confident with a soldering iron you can fit proper line level outputs http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1174515451.
I would say, unless you are particularly attracted to fitting a system "in keeping" with the car, fit aftermarket speakers and an amp and drive either from the speaker level outs on the 2006 or the bodge described above. That way, you're not left with a system you've got to rip out and replace in its' entirety if/when you decide you want a head unit that plays MP3, etc.
.. and I wouldn't buy 2 ohm speakers, TBH. Their main attraction is to rag the maximum possible power output from a cheap amp. (which is, frankly, why the BOSE system uses them). Get a quality amp that will deliver the power you need into 4 ohms and it'll sound better.
Kevin
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Thanks for replies.
So - 4 ohm good, 2 ohms bad? The JBL GTOs I was going to put in the front are 2 ohm - best to change them? IIRC it was one of their selling points!
Regarding keeping the head unit. My old Mondy had an awful sounding HU despite being top of the range with an amp attached to it - my friendly local ICE specialist informed me this was because the factory heads often have a restricted EQ curve to stop customers blowing the crappy speakers and claiming under warranty - they sold a 'corrector' for this but at about £200 so easier to replace the lot. Do you know if this is the case with the Vauxhall units?
Many thanks :D
2 Ohm speakers take more power to run them, and whilst this is OK for moving vast quantities of air on a sub, its a lousy idea for the precise movements required for sound quality. Unsure that JBL make a 2 Ohms GTO speaker though (other than sub) 4 Ohms is the "standard" in car, and what I would advise fitting.
"corrector" LOL !! I have heard some Bo**ocks in my time, and that is right up there with them !!
The reason that standard cars are such poor quality is for one simple reason, they are built for peanuts with no budget whatsoever. The build quaility and component specs are inferior and they have one sole purpose, and that is to generate enough "Noise" that it takes the customers mind from the rattles of the car. Recently, the manufacturers have now put a bit more money into OEM head units to give the customers some good features, but don`t expect for one single minute that the sound from a Vauxhall/Blaupunkt head unit is going to be anywhere close to an aftermarket Blaupunkt head unit, and that goes for any manufacturer.
The only reason to retain an Original head unit is that you either like the look of it, or you are attempting to retain the original appearence of the car - the argument to keep it because it sounded good would simply fall on deaf ears.
And as far as the original paper cone speakers that go "mushy" with condensation or water ingress, same again - replace them with a set that costs more than a quid (thats seriously around what Vx pay for them!) and this can be done quite easily behind the original grills so that the asthetics of the car remain unaltered.
The golden rule is that you get what you pay for.
Vauxhall did the sound system on a really tight budget - and it shows.
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Unsure that JBL make a 2 Ohms GTO speaker though (other than sub)
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO627&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=MEL&ser=GTS
Thanks for the input, very helpful :)
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Thanks for replies.
So - 4 ohm good, 2 ohms bad? The JBL GTOs I was going to put in the front are 2 ohm - best to change them? IIRC it was one of their selling points!
Regarding keeping the head unit. My old Mondy had an awful sounding HU despite being top of the range with an amp attached to it - my friendly local ICE specialist informed me this was because the factory heads often have a restricted EQ curve to stop customers blowing the crappy speakers and claiming under warranty - they sold a 'corrector' for this but at about £200 so easier to replace the lot. Do you know if this is the case with the Vauxhall units?
Many thanks :D
2 Ohm speakers take more power to run them, and whilst this is OK for moving vast quantities of air on a sub, its a lousy idea for the precise movements required for sound quality. Unsure that JBL make a 2 Ohms GTO speaker though (other than sub) 4 Ohms is the "standard" in car, and what I would advise fitting.
"corrector" LOL !! I have heard some Bo**ocks in my time, and that is right up there with them !!
The reason that standard cars are such poor quality is for one simple reason, they are built for peanuts with no budget whatsoever. The build quaility and component specs are inferior and they have one sole purpose, and that is to generate enough "Noise" that it takes the customers mind from the rattles of the car. Recently, the manufacturers have now put a bit more money into OEM head units to give the customers some good features, but don`t expect for one single minute that the sound from a Vauxhall/Blaupunkt head unit is going to be anywhere close to an aftermarket Blaupunkt head unit, and that goes for any manufacturer.
The only reason to retain an Original head unit is that you either like the look of it, or you are attempting to retain the original appearence of the car - the argument to keep it because it sounded good would simply fall on deaf ears.
And as far as the original paper cone speakers that go "mushy" with condensation or water ingress, same again - replace them with a set that costs more than a quid (thats seriously around what Vx pay for them!) and this can be done quite easily behind the original grills so that the asthetics of the car remain unaltered.
The golden rule is that you get what you pay for.
Vauxhall did the sound system on a really tight budget - and it shows.
Idealy you would run as lower impedance as possible (as per major stage PA equipment) as this can reduce losses and increase the electrical efficiency....the ideal would be a super conductor (ow how we wish!)
There is a trade off at very high powers where the I2R losses in the speaker cables can become significant.
The biggest factor affecting the low impedance car speaker market is probably the amps as very few designs are stable into 2ohms (poor design of the internal feedback networks at fault here!).
There is then probably also the speaker cost and size as to wind a 2ohm coil will require thicker wire making the coil larger and the copper useage higher to.
The major benefit for a car audio setup is the ability to drive higher RMS power levels off a standard 12V supply without the need for DC-DC converters which add noise, distortion and affect frequency response (as per larger car amps).
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i want to upgrade to Bose, tired of having the huge sub in the boot. I think its time to ditch the sub and do either 2 things.
Upgrade to full standard Bose, which would include SatNav or go aftermarket.
I already have SatNav really in the shape of a PDA with full Europe maps, was great in The Netherlands, find food/petrol supermarket when needed.
I have an Alpine 9854R fitted currently, out of most aftermarket stuff i think its not too bad seams to look ok and sort of fit in.
What would be a good choice of speaker to replace the standard Vx ones? Could i get sound as good as the Bose system is, with just my headunit and replacing the 4 speakers?
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Unsure that JBL make a 2 Ohms GTO speaker though (other than sub)
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO627&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=MEL&ser=GTS
Thanks for the input, very helpful :)
I stand corrected, JBL appear to have a range of 2 Ohm speakers.
But I do find it very interesting reading through their own technical spec
True Four Ohm - GTO Series speakers can be safely driven by any head unit.
Which kind of comfirms the theory that these 2 Ohm speakers will blow most head units to pieces.
Still can`t grumble, more work for our service centre !! ;D
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Unsure that JBL make a 2 Ohms GTO speaker though (other than sub)
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO627&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=MEL&ser=GTS
Thanks for the input, very helpful :)
I stand corrected, JBL appear to have a range of 2 Ohm speakers.
But I do find it very interesting reading through their own technical spec
True Four Ohm - GTO Series speakers can be safely driven by any head unit.
Which kind of comfirms the theory that these 2 Ohm speakers will blow most head units to pieces.
Still can`t grumble, more work for our service centre !! ;D
It shouldn't blow the output stages (given they are IC based and probably MOSFET)......would expect them to motor boat though!
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Unsure that JBL make a 2 Ohms GTO speaker though (other than sub)
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO627&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=MEL&ser=GTS
Thanks for the input, very helpful :)
I stand corrected, JBL appear to have a range of 2 Ohm speakers.
But I do find it very interesting reading through their own technical spec
True Four Ohm - GTO Series speakers can be safely driven by any head unit.
Which kind of comfirms the theory that these 2 Ohm speakers will blow most head units to pieces.
Still can`t grumble, more work for our service centre !! ;D
It shouldn't blow the output stages (given they are IC based and probably MOSFET)......would expect them to motor boat though!
until around 5 years ago, I would have agreed, as many car stereos had some fairly good protection circuits that would simply shut them down before any damage was done. But as the prices come down, corners have had to be cut, and many modern head units (sub £180) rarely have any external protection cuircuitry, and instead use a single IC that is exceptionally sensitive to short circuits etc. Connection to a 2 Ohm speaker can pop them very quickly.
:'(
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Unsure that JBL make a 2 Ohms GTO speaker though (other than sub)
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO627&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=MEL&ser=GTS
Thanks for the input, very helpful :)
I stand corrected, JBL appear to have a range of 2 Ohm speakers.
But I do find it very interesting reading through their own technical spec
True Four Ohm - GTO Series speakers can be safely driven by any head unit.
Which kind of comfirms the theory that these 2 Ohm speakers will blow most head units to pieces.
Still can`t grumble, more work for our service centre !! ;D
It shouldn't blow the output stages (given they are IC based and probably MOSFET)......would expect them to motor boat though!
until around 5 years ago, I would have agreed, as many car stereos had some fairly good protection circuits that would simply shut them down before any damage was done. But as the prices come down, corners have had to be cut, and many modern head units (sub £180) rarely have any external protection cuircuitry, and instead use a single IC that is exceptionally sensitive to short circuits etc. Connection to a 2 Ohm speaker can pop them very quickly.
:'(
Sound slike very poor IC design.....who are the big player in this field these days, is it still NXP (Phillips)? I guess not as all thier devices have speaker protection built in and most support 2ohms.
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Sound slike very poor IC design.....who are the big player in this field these days, is it still NXP (Phillips)? I guess not as all thier devices have speaker protection built in and most support 2ohms.
Most of the Philips stuff was fairly robust - only really blows if the wrong voltage is put up a wire (bare wire install etc) Big players are probably ST and Pioneer badged devices (may still be ST ?)
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Sound slike very poor IC design.....who are the big player in this field these days, is it still NXP (Phillips)? I guess not as all thier devices have speaker protection built in and most support 2ohms.
Most of the Philips stuff was fairly robust - only really blows if the wrong voltage is put up a wire (bare wire install etc) Big players are probably ST and Pioneer badged devices (may still be ST ?)
I have big issues with ST....find them to be possibly the most unreliable Silicon I work with.
Their memory parts are particularly troublesome!
I recently had an issue with their flash devices suffering from Alzheimer's which cost in excess of $1M
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Sound slike very poor IC design.....who are the big player in this field these days, is it still NXP (Phillips)? I guess not as all thier devices have speaker protection built in and most support 2ohms.
Most of the Philips stuff was fairly robust - only really blows if the wrong voltage is put up a wire (bare wire install etc) Big players are probably ST and Pioneer badged devices (may still be ST ?)
I have big issues with ST....find them to be possibly the most unreliable Silicon I work with.
Their memory parts are particularly troublesome!
I have to be carefull what I say here, as reprogramming those awfull ST devices has certainly paid my mortgage
::)