Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: Turk on 28 January 2009, 19:19:49
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Today I noticed that when the engine was revved to around 3k all the dashboard guages and rev counter would react as if the ignition had been turned off and the airbag light etc would come on. All ok as long as revs didn't exceed 2.5k.
Checked the alternator output. At idle it's around 14v. Raising the revs to 3k gives over 19v and the battery can be smelt.
I have the alternator from my '94 2.5td Elite, which had no charging issues when the car was in regular use and appears to be the same as my '00 2.5td CD.
I need advice on:
1) What is the likelyhood that the alternators are compatible and can they be swapped without completely removing the coolant and A/C condensor rads and anything else in the way. Is there a way to change an alternator without major(ish) component removal ?
Basically, is there a short-cut ?
The A/C pipework is just in front of the alternator and the power steering pipe is just behind, so one of those will have to be removed and obviously the belt tensioner to allow the belt to be slipped off.
2) If I remove the power steering pipe, it looks like I can access the last bolt and remove the plastic moulding on the rear of the alternator and just swap over the regulator from my old alternator to the one on the car with the alternator in situ. Is the "regulator only" swap a long shot or is there a reasonable chance this will solve the overcharging issue ?
It's going to be a few days before I can do anything so at the moment I'm keeping the lights and the rear window de-mister on. Is this pointless or will it ease the overcharging of the system temporarily ?
S.O.S...HELP...MAYDAY...etc, etc, etc...!!!
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intake off, then alternator is supposed to lift out upwards (once unbolted, obviously). Didn't on mine, or Omegatoys. just fiddle it out as best you can
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Sorry if I'm being a bit dim, but what do you mean by "Intake"?
As for lifting upwards, the space between the battery tray and the alternator mount will not allow this, or at least it doesn't look like it will.
If it can be wiggled etc but a real fiddle then I'll try it. I just don't want to after hours of wiggling find that it's a case of having to remove half the front end after all. :'(
What about the "regulator only" swap, or is this unlikely to solve the issue ?
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Sorry if I'm being a bit dim, but what do you mean by "Intake"?
As for lifting upwards, the space between the battery tray and the alternator mount will not allow this, or at least it doesn't look like it will.
If it can be wiggled etc but a real fiddle then I'll try it. I just don't want to after hours of wiggling find that it's a case of having to remove half the front end after all. :'(
What about the "regulator only" swap, or is this unlikely to solve the issue ?
sorrry, meant inlet - the big silver thing on top of engine feeding air to engine.
thats trouble i had, had to bring mine out forward, but tight..
i reckon too tight to change regulator in situ....
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Does sound like the regulator. Got to be replaced with same though
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Sorry if I'm being a bit dim, but what do you mean by "Intake"?
As for lifting upwards, the space between the battery tray and the alternator mount will not allow this, or at least it doesn't look like it will.
If it can be wiggled etc but a real fiddle then I'll try it. I just don't want to after hours of wiggling find that it's a case of having to remove half the front end after all. :'(
What about the "regulator only" swap, or is this unlikely to solve the issue ?
sorrry, meant inlet - the big silver thing on top of engine feeding air to engine.
thats trouble i had, had to bring mine out forward, but tight..
i reckon too tight to change regulator in situ....
D'ya mean the Plennum chamber ? That's not in the way at all. (or do I have a firm grip on the wrong end of the stick...again ?)
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Does sound like the regulator. Got to be replaced with same though
Both 2.5td's. One 94 elite, one '00 CD. Visually the same, just a blob of rubber/plastic bolted on to the rear of the alternator under the plastic cover.
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intake off, then alternator is supposed to lift out upwards (once unbolted, obviously). Didn't on mine, or Omegatoys. just fiddle it out as best you can
didnt we have to remove the bolts for the power steering pump as well to allow it to be wriggled out? and why do i think it came out the bottom?? :-[ or did it come out up the side of the rad???? ::)
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intake off, then alternator is supposed to lift out upwards (once unbolted, obviously). Didn't on mine, or Omegatoys. just fiddle it out as best you can
didnt we have to remove the bolts for the power steering pump as well to allow it to be wriggled out? and why do i think it came out the bottom?? :-[
in your case we were trying to remove pas. pas wouldn't drop out bottom, so we poped alternator off
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I took the alternator of my Elite easily enough, but the rad and a/c condensor were already off and the a/c pipework was also loose.
Pretty confident it will not slide straight up as there is about 6" max between battery tray and alternator mount (...unless the alternator mount is also removable, or is that part of the engine block ?)
On my CD it would possibly slide out the front if the a/c pipework wasn't there but it would still be touch and go as to whether it would have room without removing the rads.
The PAS pipe is tight up against the rear of the alternator.
I just don't fancy having to pay the best part of £50 to get the a/c gas removed and re-gassed, take off both rads and undo the a/c pipework if after all that there is a short cut.
I'm tempted to try swapping the regulators over. I'll still have to remove the PAS pipe but that's not too big a deal. It'll be a real fiddle but at least I won't have to remove half the front end.
Typical...should have known something was about to happen. I thought it was strange not having any issues with either the bike or car. ::)
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Try this, absolutely no idea if it will work, but nothing lost if it doesn't.
Inlet manifold off (allow with all the crap you need to remove to get that off), so you can see the alternator.
I think, from memory, you have to disconnect the 2 wires to back of alternator before you can do much else, as they are short.
Undo alternator, and try to manuover it so pulley side is down, and regulator end is upwards - you MAY be able to swap the reg over. Never done that, so no idea if there is enough room.
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Sounds like a plan...and I love it when a plan comes together :y
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There was room to turn the rear upwards to get the cover off and swap the regulator over.
Left the plennum in place. Removed battery, undid hose from rad to engine block (below plennum). Removed "TURBO DIESEL" plastic housing (never did know the correct term for it). Removed top bolt on belt tensioner and slackened bolt on the tensioner mount to allow it to pivot. Prised belt off alternator. Unbolted alternator, wiggled it reasonably easily thru 90 degrees, cover off, swap over regulator...and repeated all the above in reverse.
It seems to be sprted. At least the guages don't shut down when I rev it past 3k rpm. Couldn't check it properly as I couldn't find the multi tester. Will hopefully do that tomorow.
Thanks for the input and advice. :y
Oh, forgot to mention, if I had removed the PAS pipe at the rear of the alternator I reckon it would slide back and upwards to remove it completely.
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intake off, then alternator is supposed to lift out upwards (once unbolted, obviously). Didn't on mine, or Omegatoys. just fiddle it out as best you can
didnt we have to remove the bolts for the power steering pump as well to allow it to be wriggled out? and why do i think it came out the bottom?? :-[
in your case we were trying to remove pas. pas wouldn't drop out bottom, so we poped alternator off
doh!!! your right!!! :y
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There was room to turn the rear upwards to get the cover off and swap the regulator over.
Left the plennum in place. Removed battery, undid hose from rad to engine block (below plennum). Removed "TURBO DIESEL" plastic housing (never did know the correct term for it). Removed top bolt on belt tensioner and slackened bolt on the tensioner mount to allow it to pivot. Prised belt off alternator. Unbolted alternator, wiggled it reasonably easily thru 90 degrees, cover off, swap over regulator...and repeated all the above in reverse.
It seems to be sprted. At least the guages don't shut down when I rev it past 3k rpm. Couldn't check it properly as I couldn't find the multi tester. Will hopefully do that tomorow.
Thanks for the input and advice. :y
Oh, forgot to mention, if I had removed the PAS pipe at the rear of the alternator I reckon it would slide back and upwards to remove it completely.
hmm that sounds worthwhile,
Tony changed his alternator few months ago but he didnt tell me how he dd it!!! al he said was it was a bastard to get it out!!!
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Looks like I'll be changing mine in the next week or so.
Not been able to test the alternator output but as the guages were no longer cutting out at above 2k rpm, I took my usual sunday run up to my sisters. On an up hill section after leaving the m/way, as I accellerated up the hill, the power cut out and appeared to go into "limp mode". Didn't notice what the rpm was when it happened but it didn't feel higher than about 4k rpm. Pulled in at a lay-by and all seemed ok so I continued on my journey.
No battery light showing so just in case the battery was getting too much charge I turned on rear de-mister and fog lights (felt like a boy racer ;D).
Any idea what would be a fair price for a re-con'd alternator ?
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Looks like I'll be changing mine in the next week or so.
Not been able to test the alternator output but as the guages were no longer cutting out at above 2k rpm, I took my usual sunday run up to my sisters. On an up hill section after leaving the m/way, as I accellerated up the hill, the power cut out and appeared to go into "limp mode". Didn't notice what the rpm was when it happened but it didn't feel higher than about 4k rpm. Pulled in at a lay-by and all seemed ok so I continued on my journey.
No battery light showing so just in case the battery was getting too much charge I turned on rear de-mister and fog lights (felt like a boy racer ;D).
Any idea what would be a fair price for a re-con'd alternator ?
Before writing it off, get a meter on it ;)
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i ended up changeing mine last year mate
best way i found was to remove the battery and bend the corner or the tray up ::)
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woops wrong button :)
i had to drop the power steering pump out of the way to get to the last bolt
think i disconected the 2 electrical plugs and removed the relay box aswell
then i tied a piece of string to it and got somebody to take the weight while i squeezed it round the pipework :y
regulator change deffo needed by the sound of it
i'd change the slip rings and brushes at the same time then it should be as good as new :y
BIG hammer needed to bang the tray back though :)
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Yeah, looked at battery tray bending but it still looks a bit tight. Pretty sure that by removing the PAS pipe behind the alternator it will slide out towardes the rear.
Called Shorts Auto Electrical in Swansea earlier today and arranged to go down on wednesday. They can bench test the alternator I removed from the Elite and check the other on the car.
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yeah it a bit of a bitch
have fun ;D
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Alternator of Elite bench tested and apparently it's dead. Not a glimmer of light on the tester.
It was ok when the car was in use but it has been idle for 18 months.
Checked the output on the car mounted alternator now fitted with the rectifier from my Elite that used to shut down the dash clocks etc and read 19v at 2,500rpm and it's now fine up until over 4,000rpm then the guages shut down and the reading shoots up to 19v.
I've ordered a new alternator thru my mates garage. £120 (+VAT)
Anything else I should check before replacing with the new jobbie ?
Don't want to do the swap and find I still have the overcharging issue due to some component being at fault all along.
That would be typical of my luck !
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Just a bit of further input if its any use, when changing my alt, once i disconnected the hoses at the front i made a couple of slots in the battery tray with junior hacksaw and carefully bent it upwards - gave me an extra 3-4 inches clearance and proved enough to lift and turn the alt to lift it out. Gotta say it went back in alot easier than it came out!! with the slots made in the tray it bent back into place without needing a sledgehammer!!
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Just a bit of further input if its any use, when changing my alt, once i disconnected the hoses at the front i made a couple of slots in the battery tray with junior hacksaw and carefully bent it upwards - gave me an extra 3-4 inches clearance and proved enough to lift and turn the alt to lift it out. Gotta say it went back in alot easier than it came out!! with the slots made in the tray it bent back into place without needing a sledgehammer!!
Bent the lip of the tray up easily with an adjustable pipe wrench...and a medium sized "tapping spanner" to get it back into shape after.
That and removing the alternators rear top mount bracket (2 x 10mm bolts) gave just enough room to wiggle and jiggle it out.
Didn't reed to remove the PAS pipes either.
Removing the bottom idler wheel (13mm off set spanner or small ratchet) gave a few more inches of room when re-fitting.
Thanks for the advice and input folks. :y
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I have a 2.5 TD alternator sitting here doing nothing make me and sensible offer and it's yours.
Damn sight cheaper than £120
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JueV6,
Thanks for the offer but I did the job last Saturday evening. Worked out at £80 with a 2 yr warranty.
The £120 was the price without an exchange unit.
Thanks all the same. :y