Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: Ratty on 21 August 2009, 23:09:16

Title: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 21 August 2009, 23:09:16
I had a dodgy headlight switch which I replaced with one from a user on here but my dash lights don't work, they used to with the old switch, but now they even don't work with that either, it's just the instrument panel lights, switch lights, the cigar lighter and ashtray lights, infact everything that would be controlled by the dimmer, I've tried cleaning all the contacts but it's still not working.

Any idea what might be the problem? is there a fuse for them? I can't find one listed anywhere. Have I got another duff switch?

Any help appreciated, thanks
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Pete Elite on 22 August 2009, 00:28:21
Have you just tried pulling each fuse in turn and seeing if it's blown?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 22 August 2009, 00:31:46
not as yet, thought somebody might have known which to check, didn't check the dash lights when I put the switch in earlier, I'll go through all the fuses in the morning. Strange thing is all the other stuff is working at least everything that I can see.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 22 August 2009, 00:34:50
wanted to check the dimmer on the switches but couldn't work out which pins it runs on, assuming it works on a rheostat basis does anybody know the answer to that?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 22 August 2009, 11:06:48
Just been out and checked all the fuses they're all okay, but I've still not got any dash lights (damn hard to check in daylight)

also I checked the wiring for damage and found a lose bulb hanging down anybody know where it should be?

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/ratsalad/Public/loselight2.jpg)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Welung666 on 22 August 2009, 11:46:55
The stray bulb is for the air vent illum. :y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 22 August 2009, 11:51:47
ahhh that's that mystery solved... thanks  :y

still haven't got any dash (or anything controlled by the dimmer) lights :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Andy H on 22 August 2009, 12:48:36
Is your new switch faulty too? Is it a simple task to plug the old one back in to see if the dash lights come back?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 22 August 2009, 13:03:08
Thanks Andy, but as i said in my OP the dash lights won't work with either switches in now. which made me think it was a fuse but I can't find a reference to one for that circuit.

could do with someone who knows how to read circuit diagrams and be able to tell me if i can short the connectors to eliminate a bad switch.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Andy H on 22 August 2009, 13:25:14
Oops, sorry.

The GM plugs & sockets are usually good quality but it is possible for a contact to get pushed out of the back of its socket.

I once wasted a lot of time fault finding dash lights before I realised that they only come on if the ignition is on too.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 22 August 2009, 13:28:36
I've tried that too, had ignition on and engine running, I am at a complete loss.

Any auto electricians on here in Coventry?  :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Andy H on 22 August 2009, 14:23:29
Quote
I once wasted a lot of time fault finding dash lights before I realised that they only come on if the ignition is on too.
Oops again. Just been outside and checked on my 2003 Omega. The dash lights came on without the ignition :-?.

I did once have the situation I described above but it can't have been in an Omega ::)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 22 August 2009, 14:41:19
hehe, wish mine was as simple switch on and shout "yay it works" but sadly... :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 08:23:47
...Going back to this problem, does anybody know whether the Ident reference is critical? My original switch had an Ident of MP but subsequent replacements I've had to try have been PX and LG neither of the replacements worked so I'm trying to work out whether it is an incompatible switch or a fault on the car.

I'm supposed to be going to an Auto Sparks today and don't want to be charged for him to tell me that he can't find anything cos it's the wrong switch (he's already charged me £30 and done nothing)...

My head is hurting with this one :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 08:45:01
Just been onto Brandish in Coventry and they tell me that the Ident is indeed critical which would go a long way in explaining why my dash lights won't work, Original switch knackered replacements incompatible :(

Gonna update my wanted post for anyone who might have the correct fitment but I'll just say it here too (if the Mods don't mind)

I need a headlight switch with an Ident [size=12]MP[/size]

part number = 90566851
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 08:54:16
I've got a spare headlight switch, I'll pop down the garage and take a look for you .........

Fingers crossed
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 08:56:24
cheers mate...

fingers, toes, legs and everything else crossed ;)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: LFF64 on 01 September 2009, 09:40:13
Not going to be very helpfull  ::) But I have changed my headlight switch a couple of time and it has never affected the dash lights :D
I noticed you had a picture of a lampholder hanging down the one from the vent , does that illuminate at all which kights have you actually lost  :question
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 09:48:34
Maybe you were lucky and got the right switch? ;)

the lose light does indeed light up as do all the other vent illumination lights, the ones I've lost are the ones that are controlled by the dimmer switch (integrated into the headlight switch cluster) I.E. all dash lights (except for the TID, they still work) climate control switch lights (climate displays are working)  gear selector back light (auto) and possible a couple more that I've not realised are not working.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Jimbob on 01 September 2009, 09:58:27
Hmmm, slightly lost here....

are you saying some dim and some dont...

on mine ALL lights dim using the dimmer...

clock illumination,
MID
Climate panel
and gear selector

Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 10:03:22
yep that's pretty much it, although till you just said that I had assumed that only certain lights dimmed (the ones listed) I never took much notice before they stopped working as I always had them on full all the time.


This is getting weirder by the minute  :-?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Jimbob on 01 September 2009, 10:07:11
just want to make sure we are looking at the right problem....

what lights up, with your headlights on, and what in the car does actually dim...

ie
dash bulbs on, will dim
gear lights on, wont dim...
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 10:18:12
With the headlights on the only internal lights that are on are the TID, vent Illumination, window switch lights, sunroof light

The dimmer has no effect at all on anything,

original switch had a bad 'pull-out' bit that turns on the interior roof light hence the reason for replacing the switch in the first place, the first replacement switch appeared to work (it was daylight so didn't check the dash lights and dimmer) went out later theat night and there was no dash lights as above. but I had already dismantled the original switch to see if I could find out what had broke, couldn't see anything obvious so reassembled it, when i realised the dash lights and dimmer weren't working I put my old switch back in but the dash lights didn't work with that either.

it's all so confusing, so sorry if It's hard to follow
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 10:21:02
The codes on mine are:

LJ

90 565 863

17.03.97 - A

53122821

I dont know if that helps at all, and yes it has both fog light switches and the leveller control & the dimmer.

HTH .......... Rob
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 10:26:46
Thanks Robert I don't think that'll work as yours is an Ident of L J and totally different part numbers.

Brandish Coventry told me that it had to be a MP ident due to the chassis range. also quoted me £160 inc for a new one  :o just a tad above my budget, and there's no guarantee that the switch is the problem LOL

Thanks anyway mate, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Jimbob on 01 September 2009, 10:28:13
I changed mine for the same reason, was no problem.


one query, and I may be clutching at staws here...

does you car have HID lights and washers...

or the projector style lighs with no washers.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 10:29:37
Good luck anyway mate ..........
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 10:30:14
Projector no washers

thanks for the help though :y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Jimbob on 01 September 2009, 10:31:14
Quote
Projector no washers

thanks for the help though :y


thought so....just checking someone hadn't replaced the switch in the past with the wrong one...
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 10:31:29
I've just thought - have you tried the guy on ebay who breaks Omegas down near Heathrow? Have a look and you will see that he puts his phone number on ebay so you might be lucky. A couple of people have said good things about him BTW - very helpful it seems.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 10:32:38
any idea what his username is Robert?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: LFF64 on 01 September 2009, 10:36:58
I have just been and taken mine out the numbers  I  can see on it are
90460591

PA6-GF30

ETN 5312

And a yellow sticker with HE on
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 10:43:25
I'm assuming the HE is the Ident.

My Miggy seems to be a not-too-common build, it was registered march 99, so pretty much just before the facelift was released mine had/has the traffic master installed and had a non bose CCRT700 Radio dunno if that lot has anything to do with this problem but it might help those in the know to identify and help me.

would it help if i put my chassis number on here? or would that not be advisable?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 10:45:39
Omegaspareparts

Omega Spare Parts Call 0770 6495877

 ;)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 10:46:52
cheers Mate, will give 'em a shout :)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: LFF64 on 01 September 2009, 11:07:30
have you tried the old switch back in and see if the lights work with that  :question
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 11:11:41
yes and they don't, I may have broke it when I took it apart to find the original fault after I put the replacement switch in, although I didn't really do anything inside the switch just pulled it apart and had a look then reassembled it, but no, they don't work with the replacement switch or the original one :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 11:13:23
Quote
Omegaspareparts

Omega Spare Parts Call 0770 6495877

 ;)

 gave them a call, they don't have one there but he knows of an elite (he says that some elites didn't hava HIDs) being broke and will check for me and let me know.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 11:37:51
He is right - BUT, Elites from 98 MY onwards did have HID's, so that means that it must be a pre '97 Elite - which is where my headlight came from.  :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 11:43:53
:( so I won't hold my breath there then :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 12:31:35
Nope.

This has to be something really really silly like a broken wire somewhere.

What else have you done to the car recently?

Pin 58d supplies the dimmed instrument panel feed to the lights. You could try removing the light switch and then (very carefully and via a fuse) feed 12v into that pin (which should cause the panel lights to come on.

Depends how comfortable you are with electrics I guess?  :'(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Welung666 on 01 September 2009, 12:34:02
Ratty, if you fancy a trawl over to here (Dudley) I'll get my meter out and have a look for you ;) :y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 12:37:07
only things that have been done that would affect the lighting is changed all the climate bulbs and fitted an after market sony Head unit, which is currently out to eliminate that being the cause. and changed the light switch.

I'm ok with electrics usually providing the circuit is fused but this has stumped me completely.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 12:38:25
Quote
Ratty, if you fancy a trawl over to here (Dudley) I'll get my meter out and have a look for you ;) :y


Cheers mate, I may well do that, it's a bit of a trek for me atm but considering that I've spent about £60 - £70 on this and still not cured it...
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 12:39:58
Try disconnecting the climate panel and see what happens.

Were the bulbs replaced with LEDs possibly?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 12:43:27
was thinking of pulling the climate panel but wasn't sure if it would cause a fault to display needing a Tech 2 to clear it

the bulbs were replaced with normal bulbs all 1.2w as I was advised in another thread i started on here.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 12:50:39
In looking @ the circuit diagram, the dimmer module inside the switch is an electronic circuit that will dim the lights and also if it senses too great a load it shuts itself down, so the only way to solve the problem may be to disconnect things until the fault clears.

You should be ok disconnecting the climate, or just remove all the bulbs.

I recall that the climate may need to be reset - but the book tells you how to do that - by pressing lots of buttons @ the same time as I remember.

There is no chance you have dropped a nut or screw in there somewhere at all?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 12:55:43
Quote
In looking @ the circuit diagram, the dimmer module inside the switch is an electronic circuit that will dim the lights and also if it senses too great a load it shuts itself down, so the only way to solve the problem may be to disconnect things until the fault clears.

You should be ok disconnecting the climate, or just remove all the bulbs.

I recall that the climate may need to be reset - but the book tells you how to do that - by pressing lots of buttons @ the same time as I remember.

There is no chance you have dropped a nut or screw in there somewhere at all?

I'll try removing the panel in a while when i get a chance (knew I should have put a cord or something on the panel release bar when i had it out last time ::)) and no, no screws etc were dropped at least not as far as I'm aware anyway.


Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 14:58:47
Just been out and took the climate panel off, still no dash lights, removed the bulbs and plugged panel in, no dash lights

checked all the wiring behind the panel, all looks ok but still no dash lights

 :'( :'(  :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 September 2009, 15:03:19
I think that you have to stick 12v (via a 5amp fuse) into pin 58d & see what happens. If nothing happens or the fuse blows then the fault is with the wiring, if the lights come on then its the switch.

You can also get to the lighting feed from the sat-nav connector in the passenger footwell behind the kick panel. The wiring colours etc are in the Carin how to guide.

HTH
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 15:14:35
Just tried the 12v on 58d, and nothing, the wire did start to get warm so disconnected it...

I'm losing the will to live here... LOL
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 15:20:45
Ratty, do you ever get as far South as Brackley (M40 Jnc 10 or M1 Jnc 15a)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 15:27:32
not as a rule, but it's a straight run from here, about 35 miles. so I can get there easy enough, If I remember rightly there used to be a truck stop in Brackley that I used to have breakfast at when I was driving artics 
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 15:29:28
Quote
not as a rule, but it's a straight run from here, about 35 miles. so I can get there easy enough, If I remember rightly there used to be a truck stop in Brackley that I used to have breakfast at when I was driving artics 
I think there is a truck stop down near Tescos somewhere. Never found it myself, but know Diesel Dean used to overnight there (we never managed to meet up though :()
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 15:29:52
One last thing, no gay blue LEDs involved?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 15:32:11
no, normal bulbs all the way even taken the "gay" sony out to eliminate that ;)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 15:34:44
ok, let me look over the wiring diags.  I may get you to check stuff you've already done, apologies if thats the case  :-[
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 15:37:03
Cheers TB, any help is appreciated, going over stuff I've already tried is the easy bit I just repeat what happened when i tried it :)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 16:08:30
To clarify, none of the backlighting is working (instruments, climate, autobox backlighting, radio, MID etc)

What happens to these devices when a) lights off, b) lights on
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 16:16:46
side lights and headlights off and Ign on = MID, Climate displays and amber LED on the gear selector = lights on as normal

Turn headlight switch to side lights and dipped = MID and vent illumination on as normal, no switch lights on the climate panel, no instrument panel lights, and the amber LED on the gear selector goes out but the back light does not come on.

The dimmer has no effect at all during any of this.

edit: the climate displays are on with the headlight switch on as normal
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 16:24:50
Quote
side lights and headlights off and Ign on = MID, Climate displays and amber LED on the gear selector = lights on as normal

Turn headlight switch to side lights and dipped = MID and vent illumination on as normal, no switch lights on the climate panel, no instrument panel lights, and the amber LED on the gear selector goes out but the back light does not come on.

The dimmer has no effect at all during any of this.

edit: the climate displays are on with the headlight switch on as normal
Sorry for the constant queries to clarify, just trying to get straight in my head.

So are we saying that:

Climate remains identical whether lights on or off
Radio remains identical, lights on or off
Instrument remains identical, lights on of off

ie, its as if the lights are never on?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 16:32:14
yep, I think that's about right, it's as though nothing controlled by the dimmer is working, although saying that someone said earlier that their MID and climate displays dimmed with the dimmer, which if that's correct then it confuses matters even more.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 01 September 2009, 16:37:13
Could it be that by fitting an incorrect switch that you have blown a track somewhere on the dash lighting circuit?

Not sure how sensitive Omegas are to this, but I see a lot of VAG dash`s after botched attempts at radio installs with similar fault conditions?

 :-/
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 16:42:01
this is where I get confused, because Vauxhall say it must be the same Ident number but other users say they have swapped switches and so long as they have the correct switches (fogs, leveller etc) then it should work, I do know that the dimmer is electronically controlled and not just a plain rheostat.

Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 16:42:59
Quote
yep, I think that's about right, it's as though nothing controlled by the dimmer is working, although saying that someone said earlier that their MID and climate displays dimmed with the dimmer, which if that's correct then it confuses matters even more.
OK, gone through the wiring diag. Can you go through following answers with Yes/No?

1) Are you saying the only change (with engine running) between lights on and lights off is the gearbox indicator (the led, not the backlights) dims?

2) Can you check that none of the backlights for the switches below climate panel come on (may need to wait for nighttime, as wont see in daylight)

3) Cigarette lighter surround, is that on with lights

4) rear lectric window switches, do they come on with lights


Sadly, I think I know where we are heading with this  :'(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 16:46:28
Quote
this is where I get confused, because Vauxhall say it must be the same Ident number but other users say they have swapped switches and so long as they have the correct switches (fogs, leveller etc) then it should work, I do know that the dimmer is electronically controlled and not just a plain rheostat.

Correct, the dimmer is IC controlled. However, I think your dealers are simply reading off EPC and, unstandably, not using any common sense.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 16:49:45
Quote
Quote
yep, I think that's about right, it's as though nothing controlled by the dimmer is working, although saying that someone said earlier that their MID and climate displays dimmed with the dimmer, which if that's correct then it confuses matters even more.
OK, gone through the wiring diag. Can you go through following answers with Yes/No?

1) Are you saying the only change (with engine running) between lights on and lights off is the gearbox indicator (the led, not the backlights) dims?

2) Can you check that none of the backlights for the switches below climate panel come on (may need to wait for nighttime, as wont see in daylight)

3) Cigarette lighter surround, is that on with lights

4) rear lectric window switches, do they come on with lights


Sadly, I think I know where we are heading with this  :'(


1) LED on but no dimming

2) No only lighting on the climate switches is bleed from the display bulbs

3) no

4) No
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 16:52:51
Quote
Quote
Quote
yep, I think that's about right, it's as though nothing controlled by the dimmer is working, although saying that someone said earlier that their MID and climate displays dimmed with the dimmer, which if that's correct then it confuses matters even more.
OK, gone through the wiring diag. Can you go through following answers with Yes/No?

1) Are you saying the only change (with engine running) between lights on and lights off is the gearbox indicator (the led, not the backlights) dims?

2) Can you check that none of the backlights for the switches below climate panel come on (may need to wait for nighttime, as wont see in daylight)

3) Cigarette lighter surround, is that on with lights

4) rear lectric window switches, do they come on with lights


Sadly, I think I know where we are heading with this  :'(


1) LED on but no dimming

2) No only lighting on the climate switches is bleed from the display bulbs

3) no

4) No
1) The LED should always be one, had a feeling it dimmed to a set (unrelated to dimmer setting) level with lights on. back lighting around the panels each side of gearstick is controlled by dimmer.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 16:56:48
1) the LED is on with engine running until I turn the lights on then it goes out, I thought it would have - as you say - dimmed to a certain point to blend in with the back-lighting


Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 01 September 2009, 17:23:54
Is there anywhere that you could inject a 12 Volt feed to test the lighting circuit ? Ciggy lighter maybe?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 17:26:39
tried that earlier, was told that pin 58d was the dimmer control circuit put a 12v feed to that and the bridge wire started to get warm so disconnected it before any damage was done
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 01 September 2009, 17:39:14
Quote
tried that earlier, was told that pin 58d was the dimmer control circuit put a 12v feed to that and the bridge wire started to get warm so disconnected it before any damage was done

I was thinking more along the lines of connecting directly to a bulb, so that you could eliminate any control circuitry in the test and to make sure that the circuit itself was free from shorts and illuminated.

At least that way you could track backwards to see at which point you are losing the supply voltage

 :-/


Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 17:40:12
One last little test. Do the rear fog lights work (engine running, lights on, rear fogs on)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 17:41:45
Quote
One last little test. Do the rear fog lights work (engine running, lights on, rear fogs on)
Or the front fogs as well
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 17:43:08
Quote
One last little test. Do the rear fog lights work (engine running, lights on, rear fogs on)

yes, they work as do the fronts :y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 17:43:49
Quote
Quote
tried that earlier, was told that pin 58d was the dimmer control circuit put a 12v feed to that and the bridge wire started to get warm so disconnected it before any damage was done

I was thinking more along the lines of connecting directly to a bulb, so that you could eliminate any control circuitry in the test and to make sure that the circuit itself was free from shorts and illuminated.

At least that way you could track backwards to see at which point you are losing the supply voltage

 :-/


If my theory is right, that may do more damage than it cures :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 17:44:43
Quote
Quote
One last little test. Do the rear fog lights work (engine running, lights on, rear fogs on)

yes, they work as do the fronts :y
Right, excellent.

Do you have a reasonable multimeter?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 17:47:24
it's a cheapo digital one like this...

(http://www.curto-circuito.com/images/75-MAS830L_10.jpg)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 01 September 2009, 17:50:05
Quote
it's a cheapo digital one like this...

(http://www.curto-circuito.com/images/75-MAS830L_10.jpg)

No mate, thats not a cheapo meter - what you have there is absolutely perfect

As long as you know how to use it

 :y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 17:54:08
Quote
it's a cheapo digital one like this...

(http://www.curto-circuito.com/images/75-MAS830L_10.jpg)
that is ideal :y

Right, go pull out headlight switch, I'll post up diagram of where to stick it, ooo-err missus
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 17:56:07
 :-[

oki koki :D
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 18:03:47
This is the loom side of plug (I think, the switch itself has the male connectors on?)

(http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/lighting/lightswitch.JPG)

With meter on 200ohms setting, what do you get between pins 9 and 12 on loom side connector?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 18:05:00
expecting a short....
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 18:10:11
ign on or off?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 18:12:40
Quote
ign on or off?
off
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 18:18:14
it shows 00.6 which i would assume means short
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 18:44:18
Quote
it shows 00.6 which i would assume means short
sadly, what i expected.

Right, remove ashtray, remove radio (inc any adapters in use to get it to fit Omega loom), disconnect snow switch and gearbox selction panel.

Then remeasure
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 18:44:41
i think you can see where we are going with this :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 18:46:07
I'd go out and measure mine for comparison, but don't feel too good, so sat here with glass of water, and ain't moving for anyone  :-[
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 18:47:57
Quote
i think you can see where we are going with this :(


Not quite sure, the instrument panel?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 18:50:50
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i think you can see where we are going with this :(


Not quite sure, the instrument panel?
Certainly possible, but not, I was going to say we have to disconnect connected circuits one at a time until we find the faulty part
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 19:30:37
ok, all done, i even pulled the climate control panel and it still showed a short
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 19:37:52
instrument panel, front and rear leccy window switches
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 19:39:24
and all dash switches above radio
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 19:40:16
i'm losing light now, will do the rest tomorrow morning :)

Thanks for the help so far TB, really appreciate it :y

Are you about in the morning?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 19:42:46
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i'm losing light now, will do the rest tomorrow morning :)

Thanks for the help so far TB, really appreciate it :y

Are you about in the morning?
Sadly not going to be online much for a few days (after Newent).

The Haynes manual shows all connected systems (track 1532).
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 01 September 2009, 19:43:47
Just another thought, seeing as I have now read the entire thread ::) - double check the wiring behind the switch plug, as it happened when you changed switch, in case somethin dislodged
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 01 September 2009, 19:45:39
Oh yeah I'd forgot about Newent...

have a good trip mate. :)

I have checked behind the switch, everything seems to be ok there :)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 11:25:49
Ok, just pulled the clocks, switches (above the radio) and all door window switches

Still shows short on pins 9 & 12 on the loom-side of the switch


:(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 02 September 2009, 11:40:48
The illumination is also taken into the passenger kick panel to the multipin connector for the Carin sat nav system. Haven't been fiddling around in that area have you?

Its also taken to the rear heated seat switches which are blanked off on either side of the rear ciggy lighter. I've you have had the centre console off then a trapped wire somewhere?

The other possibility is that one of the bulbs has failed short circuit (they usually fail open circuit) - that would give the symptoms you describe. The only way that you will find that is by removing them all one by one.

Your could also try pulling the row of switches above the radio - they are all illuminated, and could be a problem source.

Finally, clocks and info display - cant think of much else it could be TBH  :-/

HTH
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 12:11:43
Nope not touched the kick panels either side, but I did have the rear vent apart a while ago cos someone had put a screw through the housing and into the vent opening wheel, I did notice the 2 connectors in there and wondered what they were for, but don't think I touch anything that would cause it to short, I will check in a while it's peeing down here  >:(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 02 September 2009, 13:05:23
They are for the heated seats, but there is also a bulb for the rear lighter - its a tiny little thing on two thin purple wires ......
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 16:20:27
just checked and it's all ok in there,

This has really got me stumped, I was hoping that by disconnecting each component in the loop as it were I'd find the culprit but everything comes up as OK...

think I need someone who knows their way round Miggy 'lectrics to have a look, cos I aint got a clue...:(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 02 September 2009, 17:11:00
Me too.

I'm going to sit down later with the wiring diagram and list out everything that is connected onto this troublesome feed, that way you can use it as a checklist.

I guess by now you are quite familiar with the light switch. How easy is it to get to an individual connection on the back of the switch?

Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 17:25:32
Me and the switch are on intimate terms  :-[  ;D

The back of the switch is easy, further into the loom looks like it's fairly hard to get at, the components connected which i've checked by checking for an open circuit on pins 9 and 12 of the diagram TB posted yesterday are...

The ashtray, snow switch, gear selector lights (autobox) climate control panel switches, door leccy window switches front and back, cigar lighter and light at the rear, instrument panel, radio is out anyway all switches above radio.

each one returns and open circuit on the above pins of the switch (loom side)

Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 02 September 2009, 17:57:00
But I presume that they all show a short circuit to ground as that is what you are seeing from terminal 58d which is the output from the switch?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 18:05:14
tbh, I don't know, I was just taking instructions from TB's post on Page 6 of this thread. I'm a bit uncertain when it comes to  electrics and this has me well puzzled
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 02 September 2009, 18:36:30
Ok, not to worry. I nearly finished the list but my PC then  crashed and I lost the lot. I have to go out now but will look later.

One thing that I did notice was that it also seems to go to the connector for a mobile phone install. Did your car ever have a mobile phone kit installed by a previous owner? Any telltale signs possibly? Have you removed a phone kit?

The connector is up behind the glove box.

More later I'm sure!  :(

Regards
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 18:40:24
Not as far as I'm aware, but it did have a CCRT700 installed which has a phone integrated into it, but that has now been taken out and the dash lights did work after it was removed
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 02 September 2009, 18:46:19
I think the phone wiring is still there as its a part of the loom.

Its unlikely that it could have been damaged, but just trying to cover all the bases as they say!
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 02 September 2009, 19:12:19
I`m also happy to cast a glance over a circuit diagram if you have one you could email to me?

Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 02 September 2009, 19:47:01
Is it possible to get to the back of the socket where switch plugs in, I'm beginning to suspect something behind there, esp as it happened after changing switch.

Pin 9 is the same as 58D BTW
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 19:54:09
Yes, there's loads of room I've checked, double chacked and checked again and as far as I can see all the connectors are sound and in their correct positions. the loom side of the switch can be pulled out from it's dash holder leaving it free if you get my meaning, I can take a Pic of it if it will help.
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 20:10:02
Dunno if it will help but...

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/ratsalad/Car/DSC_2501.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/ratsalad/Car/DSC_2502.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/ratsalad/Car/DSC_2503.jpg)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 02 September 2009, 20:40:33
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But I presume that they all show a short circuit to ground as that is what you are seeing from terminal 58d which is the output from the switch?

Is there a voltage on 58d with the switch fitted?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 20:58:14
sorry to sound a bit dense, but how would I connect the multimeter to check that?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 02 September 2009, 21:04:21
Meter set to the V 20 setting on the left.

Black meter wire to earth / ground / anything metal

Red meter wire to 58d (pin 9)

What does the meter say with lights on / off / dimmer / any position of the switch

Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 21:06:34
Ok ta, will check it in the morning when i have some light out there :)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 02 September 2009, 21:10:05
As no one seems to be able to send me a diagram - can somebody determine what supply and output voltages should be seen at the connector at the rear of the switch?

Lets at least try to determine if we have a supply to be working with ?

 :-?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 21:14:52
TB says the Haynes manual has the circuit on track 1532, I have that diagram that I can scan if it's any help, it's effectively useless to me as It might as well me in Chinese to me :(
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 02 September 2009, 21:31:26
I`m afraid I do not have a Haynes . . .

But lets face it, I don`t have an Omega either !!

 ::)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 02 September 2009, 21:33:02
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TB says the Haynes manual has the circuit on track 1532, I have that diagram that I can scan if it's any help, it's effectively useless to me as It might as well me in Chinese to me :(

If you want to scan and email to me

technical@dndservices.co.uk

 :y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 02 September 2009, 21:53:30
email sent, there are a few scans there that I think you might need, it's an 8meg file though

thanks :)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 02 September 2009, 22:06:30
Quote
Quote
But I presume that they all show a short circuit to ground as that is what you are seeing from terminal 58d which is the output from the switch?

Is there a voltage on 58d with the switch fitted?
I think we've already established there is a short to 0v on the loom (or item that connects to this connection)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: TheBoy on 02 September 2009, 22:07:40
Dave DND - the diagrams are a bit 'bitty', not easy to get to you
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 03 September 2009, 00:04:35
I just wanna say a big thank you to everyone who has helped and is helping with this, it is really appreciated.

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 03 September 2009, 08:08:13
"There by the grace of God go us all " ........

The whole point of a forum such as this, in my humble opinion anyway, is to offer as much help as you receive - what goes around comes around!

Rob
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 03 September 2009, 08:11:47
Aye, but I find a little gratitude goes a long way ;)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 03 September 2009, 08:36:18
Quote
Quote
Quote
But I presume that they all show a short circuit to ground as that is what you are seeing from terminal 58d which is the output from the switch?

Is there a voltage on 58d with the switch fitted?
I think we've already established there is a short to 0v on the loom (or item that connects to this connection)

TB, Not wishing to interfere with your method of diagnosis, as I am aware that your are more of an expert on the Omega than I am, so I will ensure that any measurements I ask for will not conflict with the major amount of dismantling that has been done so far, as you obviously have something in mind and need to see it through.

I was going to tackle this another way. I don`t hold the view that there is a short, and my gut feeling is that you may be chasing the readings of a bulb that is still connected in circuit and may give a "short" reading. By all means carry on, and I will try to go down the "open" circuit route by looking for where a voltage has been "lost"

Either way, we WILL get there.

 ;)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 03 September 2009, 09:43:10
Ok, just been and checked the voltage on 58d and there's nothing with the switch in any position, well I say nothing it did show 0.04 of a volt with lights on, but dimmer didn't do anything to that result and i checked it with my original switch and the switch that I got off Darth L00 knee last week ( a known good one (at least it was till it was plugged in to my car))
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 03 September 2009, 23:53:21
It's gone quiet in this thread :( is that because no one has any more ideas or because every one is at the meet and too busy getting plastered  :P :)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 04 September 2009, 10:05:22
[size=24]DONE IT!!! It's working :D[/size]

it was the light in the rear cigar lighter, the 2 terminals were touching, when I pulled it out to check they must have sprung apart so I didn't look any further, just thought I'd go over some of the stuff I'd done and as I pulled the airvent surround off I noticed the terminals move away from each other, checked the resistance on pins 9 and 12 and it showed 1.4, plugged in the switch I got from Daz, and all my dash lights sprang to life :D

To say I'm effin pleased is an understatement.

Thanks to EVERYONE who helped with this. I really do mean it.


 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Dave DND on 04 September 2009, 10:46:58
I was just composing a message to apologise for being quiet for the last 24 hours - with new registrations just come out, it is absolute chaos here at the moment.

So glad you have got it sorted though !!

 :)

Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 04 September 2009, 10:58:31
Thanks Dave, Thanks for all your help here and in my radio thread a while ago.

:y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 04 September 2009, 11:08:04
Well done old chap!

I suspect the reason that it just stopped working rather than blow a fuse is that the dimmer is controlled by a circuit - which I suspects shuts itself down when too much current is being drawn, i.e. the dimmer circuit goes into a self protect mode.

So, what disturbed it in the first place then?
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 04 September 2009, 11:13:51
Someone in the cars past history had put a screw threw the top of the airvent housing and had caught the vent wheel I removed the screw then had to reseat the housing the way it should have been done in the first place, I must have disturbed it then, it was the same day that I changed my broken headlight switch, which threw me into thinking it was the switch that had caused the problem... the problem had me so wound up that I keep nipping out to the car to make sure I'm not dreaming  ;D
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 04 September 2009, 14:14:04
Phew .........

Alls well that ends well.

Its interesting though, many "complex" failure scenarios are actually the culmination of a number of smaller changes all coming together at the "wrong" time.

My current disaster is a dead motherboard on a PC which is just out of warranty and HP aren't being very helpful. hey ho
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 04 September 2009, 14:29:02
Thanks :D

Good luck with the PC Robert hope you get it sorted :y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: baging on 25 October 2009, 15:08:46
Thank you all very very much for this thread!!!  :)

I had the exactly same problem, suddenly the dash got dark.....
Started by searching for wiring diagrams and such, until i stumbled upon this thread, and exactly as this, my problem were solved by just taking a look at rear cig lighter lightning :)
Now afterwards, i know what caused it. Our dog (before she got a cage) practiced jumping in to the front seat when alone in the car. At one occasion she stepped on the vent part and it came loose. My wife put it back and a few days later reported the problem with dash lights  ;D ;D

Again, thank you all for this thread, and all your knowledge!!

Best /Stefan
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: Ratty on 25 October 2009, 15:12:58
Glad it helped you Stefan. it had me going crazy for a couple of weeks.

Oh, and welcome to the forum :y
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 25 October 2009, 17:35:39
It had a number of us going if I recall   :D :D

Welcome ,,,,,,,,,  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Dash Lights
Post by: baging on 25 October 2009, 23:08:52
Thanks again! Think i'll hang around here for a while! Also got a car that drives me insane from time to time ;) :D
Sadly i can't help you with much Opel-knowledge since it's my first one. Well, 2nd if i count my Manta 19S i had for.....20 yrs ago.. :)