Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: bellers on 22 November 2010, 17:52:42

Title: played cds made on my computer
Post by: bellers on 22 November 2010, 17:52:42
i made a cd on my pc and my standard cd player wont play them. should they play? am i making them wrong?

thanks
jonny
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: jads on 22 November 2010, 18:01:23
i have burned my cd in mp3 format and they play on my car cd ok ;)
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Welung666 on 22 November 2010, 18:17:36
Using CDR's in a standard head unit or changer will kill the laser very quickly. Only play original cd's or lose the cd player altogether, choice is yours ;) :y
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: millwall on 22 November 2010, 19:14:19
Quote
Using CDR's in a standard head unit or changer will kill the laser very quickly. Only play original cd's or lose the cd player altogether, choice is yours ;) :y

why does that happen    i dont play copies in the car luckily
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Kneepad on 22 November 2010, 19:20:12
Quote
Quote
Using CDR's in a standard head unit or changer will kill the laser very quickly. Only play original cd's or lose the cd player altogether, choice is yours ;) :y

why does that happen    i dont play copies in the car luckily


I was hoping someone would ask that question, considering the laser head never actually touches the CD  :-/
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Entwood on 22 November 2010, 19:26:36
Quote
Quote
Using CDR's in a standard head unit or changer will kill the laser very quickly. Only play original cd's or lose the cd player altogether, choice is yours ;) :y

why does that happen    i dont play copies in the car luckily


Put very simply  ... a "purchased" CD is "stamped" from a sheet of foil... and the working surface (the rear of the "label") is a mixture of highs and lows... with an actual physical difference existing... albeit very small ......

A "burned" CD (home made) the "foil" has a dye within the surface, when "burned" the dye is heated to change colour and gives the impression to the laser that the surface is at differing heights, so fooling it into giving the same output as the real highs and lows of the stamped disc.

The problem is .. the laser "knows" it needs to change the focus to get the high and low in focus every time .. but the "dyed" disc is all at the same distance .. so the focus mechanism of the laser is working overtime to achieve very little ... it thus wears out much faster....

Perhaps not totally accurate but gives the basic idea hopefuly
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: millwall on 22 November 2010, 19:34:54
thanks entwood  that makes sense now :y
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Kneepad on 22 November 2010, 20:11:35

Quote

Perhaps not totally accurate but gives the basic idea hopefuly.
Certainly accurate enough to give me a reason for not using recordables in the car.
Your reply also prompted me to investigate a little further and all I could find to add was that
'recordables are optimized for use with the lasers in computer optical drives'. Explaining why some recordables just won't play.

Many Thanks   :y
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: mrgreen on 22 November 2010, 20:16:13
so does this apply to stereos manufactured to play mp3 formats also? as i have just installed a unit on this basis alone burn all my music to a pair of dvds and let it play or am i risking the same problem?
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: TheBoy on 22 November 2010, 20:20:08
Quote
so does this apply to stereos manufactured to play mp3 formats also? as i have just installed a unit on this basis alone burn all my music to a pair of dvds and let it play or am i risking the same problem?
Generally, MP3 players are OK with CDRs. Still use quality media (Verbatim or TY) and use a slow speed and a quality CD Writer.
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: TheBoy on 22 November 2010, 20:20:43
Quote
i have burned my cd in mp3 format and they play on my car cd ok ;)
Not on any standard factory fit stereo fitted to the Omega though ;)
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Entwood on 22 November 2010, 20:29:10
Quote
so does this apply to stereos manufactured to play mp3 formats also? as i have just installed a unit on this basis alone burn all my music to a pair of dvds and let it play or am i risking the same problem?

I believe .. but have no proof  - perhaps Dave DND with his expert knowledge can help - that "newer" CD units use a different focusing system that is able to handle "home made" discs far better.

You have to remember that the technology in Omega systems is well over 10 years old ... "CD-R" hardly existed then ... things move on in the technology world at ferocious pace !!!
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: bellers on 22 November 2010, 22:06:14
thanks folks i defiantly wont be trying them in again
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Andy H on 22 November 2010, 22:22:45
Any CD or DVD that I burn that I want to play on a CD or DVD player (ie not a computer drive) I burn at the slowest speed that my CD/DVD burner will support.

Audio CDs burnt that way seemed to play more reliably in my CDR2006 than pressed ones (until I read about why I shouldn't  ::) )

Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: feeutfo on 23 November 2010, 11:07:40
It does actually say cdr's are not supported in the manual.
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 26 November 2010, 13:31:39
Quote
Quote
Quote
Using CDR's in a standard head unit or changer will kill the laser very quickly. Only play original cd's or lose the cd player altogether, choice is yours ;) :y

why does that happen    i dont play copies in the car luckily


Put very simply  ... a "purchased" CD is "stamped" from a sheet of foil... and the working surface (the rear of the "label") is a mixture of highs and lows... with an actual physical difference existing... albeit very small ......

A "burned" CD (home made) the "foil" has a dye within the surface, when "burned" the dye is heated to change colour and gives the impression to the laser that the surface is at differing heights, so fooling it into giving the same output as the real highs and lows of the stamped disc.

The problem is .. the laser "knows" it needs to change the focus to get the high and low in focus every time .. but the "dyed" disc is all at the same distance .. so the focus mechanism of the laser is working overtime to achieve very little ... it thus wears out much faster....

Perhaps not totally accurate but gives the basic idea hopefuly

Daft question, but surely the laser focus moves the same amount, whether genuine hi/lo's, or fake dyed ones.
Therefore, although it ""achieves very little", I can't see why there would be any difference in the amount of movement & thus wear-out time?

Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Dave DND on 26 November 2010, 13:56:20
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Using CDR's in a standard head unit or changer will kill the laser very quickly. Only play original cd's or lose the cd player altogether, choice is yours ;) :y

why does that happen    i dont play copies in the car luckily


Put very simply  ... a "purchased" CD is "stamped" from a sheet of foil... and the working surface (the rear of the "label") is a mixture of highs and lows... with an actual physical difference existing... albeit very small ......

A "burned" CD (home made) the "foil" has a dye within the surface, when "burned" the dye is heated to change colour and gives the impression to the laser that the surface is at differing heights, so fooling it into giving the same output as the real highs and lows of the stamped disc.

The problem is .. the laser "knows" it needs to change the focus to get the high and low in focus every time .. but the "dyed" disc is all at the same distance .. so the focus mechanism of the laser is working overtime to achieve very little ... it thus wears out much faster....

Perhaps not totally accurate but gives the basic idea hopefuly

Daft question, but surely the laser focus moves the same amount, whether genuine hi/lo's, or fake dyed ones.
Therefore, although it ""achieves very little", I can't see why there would be any difference in the amount of movement & thus wear-out time?

Or am I missing something?

its not the distance the laser travels that causes the problems, its the physical size of the pits and troughs of the data it is looking at on the cd. Audio data is a much larger physical format, when compared to the tiny computer data being written to by a home computer recorded disc. Its the laser struggling to focus on the smaller data that causes premature wear. Think about it, if you have to keep squinting to see something very small, sooner or later your eyesight will be knackered - same principle.

CDR`s and recordable media should not be used on ANY Omega stereo, and MP3 is not a format that any of them support anyway.

And I can confirm that any MP3 stereo will be fully compatable with recordable media, CDR / CDRW - obviosly there will be some performance issues depending on how the media is recorded

 :y
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 26 November 2010, 15:23:32
Ah, makes sense now..... funny thing was I actually knew that, just forgot that I did

Thank god it's Friday  :-[
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: osealy on 27 November 2010, 20:45:57
I have been using cdr's for 60k + mls in two factory changers preface & miniface, no probs.
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 28 November 2010, 00:58:20
H/U changers, or remote?
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: feeutfo on 28 November 2010, 01:15:11
http://www.club-opel.com/graphics/manuals/92/Autordio-Opel-NCDR-2011-NCDC-2013-15-EN.pdf

Page 32, CD Changer.
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: TheBoy on 28 November 2010, 09:30:52
Quote
I have been using cdr's for 60k + mls in two factory changers preface & miniface, no probs.
The CDC2 (6 disk unit fitted to prefacelifts) is more resilient. The later CDC3 has fitted to *ALL* facelift cars with cd changers really are prone to laser focusing failure.
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Road Hog Mad on 20 March 2011, 19:23:01
Why does it make a difference at what speed you write it at? If it can burn a DVD for example at 16X why burn it a x2?
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Andy H on 20 March 2011, 21:12:49
Quote
Why does it make a difference at what speed you write it at? If it can burn a DVD for example at 16X why burn it a x2?
The recording laser burns the pits in the CD-R. The laser switches on and off very quickly but it isn't instant so the beginning and end of each pit tends to smear.

If you double the rotational speed you double the length of the smudge at the end of each pit.
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: TheBoy on 20 March 2011, 21:37:03
Quote
Why does it make a difference at what speed you write it at? If it can burn a DVD for example at 16X why burn it a x2?
In laymans terms, you get a more accurate and consistent burn at slower speeds.

Its always best to burn anything at the slowest speed supported by the recorder/media combo, and always use top quality media, ie Verbatim or TY.
Title: Re: played cds made on my computer
Post by: Dave DND on 21 March 2011, 09:06:53
Have a read of this

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300229193