Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Taxi_Driver on 12 October 2006, 12:57:36
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My Omega has now had the following changed by the Vx dealer
MAF sensor
Engine ECU
Gearbox ECU
And yesterday, finally the CAM sensor
And guess what......the EML is still coming on :(
I read the codes earlier and got
P0170.....not bothered coz probably caused by LPG
P1700 still
and P0340 still
Rang the vx dealer to tell them the EML was still coming on....service manager basically blamed the LPG conversion and said it was interfering and wasnt prepared to look at the fault again until the lpg was disconnected.
Now i thought he meant disabled......so I pulled the fuse on the lpg system so it was completely dead
and while i was about it reset the EML.
Ran about in it for a bit and fine.....switched it off for 15mins and suprise, suprise the EML came back on and in limp mode to.....a restart cleared the EML and gearbox was ok.
It did this twice.
So called the vx service manager again to tell him fuse was pulled on the LPG and it still does it.
He wants the LPG system removed!!! before looking at it again.
So as that aint gonna happen.......looks like its a stalemate! with the vx dealer :(
Anybody any ideas as its not the cam sensor ??
Oh and the icing on the cake....the coolant level sensor has packed up on it as well :(
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Bl**dy hell Dave, you're not having a lot of luck mate :( I'd kick that VX dealer into touch and find one that's actually knows what they're doing. Failing that, maybe a visit to Nottingham? ::) ;)
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That sux dude! Have a few of these [smiley=beer.gif]
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I always thought that these dealers were there to provide a service to us the paying customer (and bye god to we pay for it), not to stamp their feet and (a phrase some may remember from somewhere else) not to throw all their toys out of the pram. >:(
Ditch them and find one who is interested. :y
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Sorry to hear of your bad luck, my thoughts to sales are the customer is always right, would be tempted to send a letter to VX head office and make a complaint.
The treatment you have received sounds terrible, have you tried any other dealers in your area.
Was the LPG aftermarket fitted or at manufacture.
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It doesn't need to be removed just disabled - basically they have no idea!
So your gearbox goes into limp mode - is this where you have to change manually?
Do you get weird behaviour on the rev counter?
Have they checked the crank sensor?*
* This supplies the signal for rev counter & gearbox
Sideways thinking.
Has anyone checked for air leaks (noone checked the air filter)? How are the plugs?
It is basically a stretched X20XEV, so is the ICV clean, is the jet into the inlet manifold clear?
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My last car used rev counter feed for LPG until swapped to coil feed due to conking out, this was shorted on the engine.
Can you check the added on cable from ECU to LPG ECU for OKness?
Can you check that the cut injector cable is nice and tight on both petrol injectors and the petrol injector loom?
Something here is intermittant.
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When you bought your car was the engine really shiney & clean?
If it was sounds like steam cleaner abuse
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Sorry to hear of your bad luck, my thoughts to sales are the customer is always right, would be tempted to send a letter to VX head office and make a complaint.
The treatment you have received sounds terrible, have you tried any other dealers in your area.
Was the LPG aftermarket fitted or at manufacture.
Aftermarket...VX never did a 'factory fit' on 2.2's
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It doesn't need to be removed just disabled - basically they have no idea!
So your gearbox goes into limp mode - is this where you have to change manually?
Do you get weird behaviour on the rev counter?
Have they checked the crank sensor?*
* This supplies the signal for rev counter & gearbox
Sideways thinking.
Has anyone checked for air leaks (noone checked the air filter)? How are the plugs?
It is basically a stretched X20XEV, so is the ICV clean, is the jet into the inlet manifold clear?
Hi Martin
I think he does have a idea actually.....like he doesnt have a clue whats wrong and doesnt want to spend more time on not knowing what bit to change.....so his excuse that i have to remove the lpg conversion....means that he wont probably see me again!
Yes the gearbox does go into limp mode....and yes you can change it manually but i dont like to do this at it really bangs when changing.....i prefer to keep restarting and the EML doesnt come on.
Nothing wierd with the rev counter and no they havent changed the crank sensor afaik....they wouldnt ....ecu codes arent telling them theres anything wrong with it.
Plugs were knew 4k miles ago......air filter was changed bout 8k miles ago.
Having experimented with it this afternoon.....I can get the EML on and limp mode every time.
Hot engine, turn it off, wait 15 mins and restart.....will then cough for a bout 5 seconds before starting and EML on and limp mode.
Hot engine, turn it off, restart immediately and its fine
Cold engine, start it and its fine.
So from this i dont think its a loose connection......i think its heat releated... :-/
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Gascon seems to have the same problem :-?
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1160621228/0#6
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Mark....do you think its worth me getting the gearbox oil changed??
74k miles, never been done on mine
Oh and Martin.....Nice and dirty engine when i bought it.....so no steam cleaning
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74k miles, never been done on mine
probably, certainly wont harm...
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Who fancies doing a 'g/b oil party'! (Mine needs doing....)
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Who fancies doing a 'g/b oil party'! (Mine needs doing....)
Thanks for the advice Jaime....might as well...as you say nothing to loose :y
;D I was just thinking my local backstreet garage is gonna think its Christmas tomorrow.....i already got 2 cars booked in with them.....now my Omega gearbox oil/filter change as well... ;D
Just been having a look in TC book.....dont think gearbox oil and filter are TC bits :(
BTW i wont change my engine oil myself coz i thinks thats a messy job....plus no room either.....gearbox oil change sounds even messier....wouldnt like to have your driveway afterwards ;D
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Limp mode sounds like crank sensor or wiring, the gearbox gets the engine speed from the crank sensor, does your LPG cut out at same time?
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No Martin.....Its on petrol for the first 30 secs of running....then cuts onto lpg....it only has this prob when starting.....so on petrol.
Start it when cold.....fine
Start it when hot......after switching off, then start it straight away....its fine
Start it when hot and after waiting 15 mins then struggles to start but does after 5 secs or so....then EML is on and in limp mode.
Turn it off and try again usually does the trick...sometimes i have to restart it a couple of times to get it to behave
I dont think it has anyhing to do with the lpg
Cheers
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No Martin.....Its on petrol for the first 30 secs of running....then cuts onto lpg....it only has this prob when starting.....so on petrol.
Start it when cold.....fine
Start it when hot......after switching off, then start it straight away....its fine
Start it when hot and after waiting 15 mins then struggles to start but does after 5 secs or so....then EML is on and in limp mode.
Turn it off and try again usually does the trick...sometimes i have to restart it a couple of times to get it to behave
I dont think it has anyhing to do with the lpg
Cheers
Dave, I'm gutted for you.
You have exactly the same symptoms that mine had, I know this doesn't help, but I was convinced it was the cam sensor.
Start it when cold.....fine
Start it when hot......after switching off, then start it straight away....its fine
Start it when hot and after waiting 15 mins then struggles to start but does after 5 secs or so....then EML is on and in limp mode.
Turn it off and try again usually does the trick...sometimes i have to restart it a couple of times to get it to behave.
I just don't believe it, unless my dealer did something else that I'm unaware of.
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Not sure your cheapo tech2 lead can do live data, if it can, may be worth monitoring it at the point you know it will fail...
Real Tech2 can do triggered snapshot, but I've never used in anger...
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No Martin.....Its on petrol for the first 30 secs of running....then cuts onto lpg....it only has this prob when starting.....so on petrol.
Start it when cold.....fine
Start it when hot......after switching off, then start it straight away....its fine
Start it when hot and after waiting 15 mins then struggles to start but does after 5 secs or so....then EML is on and in limp mode.
Turn it off and try again usually does the trick...sometimes i have to restart it a couple of times to get it to behave
I dont think it has anyhing to do with the lpg
Cheers
Dave, I'm gutted for you.
You have exactly the same symptoms that mine had, I know this doesn't help, but I was convinced it was the cam sensor.
Start it when cold.....fine
Start it when hot......after switching off, then start it straight away....its fine
Start it when hot and after waiting 15 mins then struggles to start but does after 5 secs or so....then EML is on and in limp mode.
Turn it off and try again usually does the trick...sometimes i have to restart it a couple of times to get it to behave.
I just don't believe it, unless my dealer did something else that I'm unaware of.
No worries AA ;) Gascon seems to have the same prob on his 2.2.....hes changed his cam sensor too and made no difference :(
Gonna get the gearbox oil/filter changed to see if that fixes it :y
Marks and Jaimes advice :)
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Marks and Jaimes advice :)
No gonads offered....
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Just noticed this on the other forum
caroline 0199 has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - r reg 2.0 16v omega engine light comes on /off?? - in the Omega (Commodore)/Monaro, Carlton/Senator/Manta/Monza Related Infomation Required / Provided forum of Vauxhall Owners Network.
This thread is located at:
http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104601&goto=newpost
Here is the message that has just been posted:
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Hi, had this one happen to me, it turned out to be the camshaft sensor. Unplug it with the engine running, and if the engine doesn't stop, that will be the offending item. If it stops the engine, then it's more likely to be the crankshaft sensor.
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Marks and Jaimes advice :)
No gonads offered....
Wise move there. ;)
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Marks and Jaimes advice :)
No gonads offered....
Wise move there. ;)
;) ;D
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Marks and Jaimes advice :)
No gonads offered....
Chicken ;D
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Limp mode sounds like crank sensor or wiring, the gearbox gets the engine speed from the crank sensor, does your LPG cut out at same time?
Im not getting any ecu codes indicating the crank sensor :-? ....but i'll check em again this morning
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Limp mode sounds like crank sensor or wiring, the gearbox gets the engine speed from the crank sensor, does your LPG cut out at same time?
Im not getting any ecu codes indicating the crank sensor :-? ....but i'll check em again this morning
When the installer I am not naming did the MV6 and routed the RPM wire past the EGR valve and it melted whenever it shorted the rev counter went wild and gearbox dropped into limp.
Now I have found out this is driven by the crank sensor, here I am NOT AT ALL blaming LPG (but it produced similar symptoms), but could the sensor be on its way out?
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I had the crankshaft sensor replaced about 3 weeks ago, at the time I didnt relised the gearbox was going into limp mode because I never attempted to drive it, I just restarted it. I thought it was just a starting problem, now looking back I know is been the same problem all along, so I have both sensors replaced
Cam sensor
Crank sensor
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Limp mode sounds like crank sensor or wiring, the gearbox gets the engine speed from the crank sensor, does your LPG cut out at same time?
Im not getting any ecu codes indicating the crank sensor :-? ....but i'll check em again this morning
When the installer I am not naming did the MV6 and routed the RPM wire past the EGR valve and it melted whenever it shorted the rev counter went wild and gearbox dropped into limp.
Now I have found out this is driven by the crank sensor, here I am NOT AT ALL blaming LPG (but it produced similar symptoms), but could the sensor be on its way out?
Ive had a good route around following the wires from the lpg ecu, just about every wire is cased in that flexy plastic tubing....couldnt see anything amiss.
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Just read the codes again
P0170
P1700
P0340
No mention of crank sensor.
Also noticed the cheapo tech2 wont read the gearbox ecu anymore.....coz of new ecu perhaps :-/
And also noticed but nothing to with the problem, since the gearbox ecu has been changed, it longer hangs about in gears when its cold, it changes normally. :-?
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Limp mode sounds like crank sensor or wiring, the gearbox gets the engine speed from the crank sensor, does your LPG cut out at same time?
Im not getting any ecu codes indicating the crank sensor :-? ....but i'll check em again this morning
When the installer I am not naming did the MV6 and routed the RPM wire past the EGR valve and it melted whenever it shorted the rev counter went wild and gearbox dropped into limp.
Now I have found out this is driven by the crank sensor, here I am NOT AT ALL blaming LPG (but it produced similar symptoms), but could the sensor be on its way out?
Ive had a good route around following the wires from the lpg ecu, just about every wire is cased in that flexy plastic tubing....couldnt see anything amiss.
Aghhhhh! No the problem I got with the red car was very similar to a crank sensor failing, your wiring I suspect is fine. Borrow a crank sensor and see if it fixes it
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The camshaft sensor did they replace part of the loom aswell as the sensor when they did it?
Not sure if this would make any difference but maybe part of the problem if they didn't change part of the loom, regarding the sensor.
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Just read the codes again
P0170
P1700
P0340
No mention of crank sensor.
Also noticed the cheapo tech2 wont read the gearbox ecu anymore.....coz of new ecu perhaps :-/
And also noticed but nothing to with the problem, since the gearbox ecu has been changed, it longer hangs about in gears when its cold, it changes normally. :-?
My 1998 MV6 never held gears for long time when cold, the 1996 project car does hold them for ages... ...I would imagine a 2.2 ECU would follow same rules as my 1998 and not hold gears.
They did set the variant options to correct engine didn't they?
I think you may need a live data feed to see what g/box is doing, and why...
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Just read the codes again
P0170
P1700
P0340
No mention of crank sensor.
Also noticed the cheapo tech2 wont read the gearbox ecu anymore.....coz of new ecu perhaps :-/
And also noticed but nothing to with the problem, since the gearbox ecu has been changed, it longer hangs about in gears when its cold, it changes normally. :-?
My 1998 MV6 never held gears for long time when cold, the 1996 project car does hold them for ages... ...I would imagine a 2.2 ECU would follow same rules as my 1998 and not hold gears.
They did set the variant options to correct engine didn't they?
I think you may need a live data feed to see what g/box is doing, and why...
Opps spotted a typo :-[ I meant it NO longer hangs about..... But i think you spotted my deliberate mistake Jaime ::)
And your guess is as good as mine! as to what the vx dealer has done!!
Cheapo tech2 carnt do that ....live data feed :(
And summat else I just discovered if changing the gb oil/filter doesnt do the trick, i thought may as well change the crank sensor for the hell of it.......The 2.2 crank sensor isnt on TC....£54+vat :(
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The camshaft sensor did they replace part of the loom aswell as the sensor when they did it?
Not sure if this would make any difference but maybe part of the problem if they didn't change part of the loom, regarding the sensor.
Dunno m8.....more than likely not :-/
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Other option if you get over here is to try to get some snapshots, and send them over to one of the clever peeps to see if they can see whats amiss...
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Other option if you get over here is to try to get some snapshots, and send them over to one of the clever peeps to see if they can see whats amiss...
Thanks for the offer Jaime :) Do you have any spare time next week?
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Dunno if this helps diagnosis.....but its now starting to do the following, when hot
Its starts ok......then about 1 or 2 secs later....engine missfires so badly it cuts out
It then takes about 5 or 6 secs of turning over before it starts again, but no EML on
Jaime do you want me to get the gb oil/filter changed before you take a look at it?
Cheers
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That sounds like an engine problem then, as well as gearbox. Unless g/b is telling it to retard constantly...
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That sounds like an engine problem then, as well as gearbox. Unless g/b is telling it to retard constantly...
In that case couldn't you pull a fuse for the g.b or disconnect it's ECU and start the car? Can't go anywhere, but might rule out that issue.