Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: P6UL K on 20 October 2011, 13:42:21
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Afternoon one and all,
Can anyone explain in detail how the traction control works on the Omega? Mine is playing up and sometimes turns itself on or off at will and on occasions when i try to turn it off it won't turn off or if i do mangae to turn it off, it stays off for a bit and then turns itself back on again! Very frustrating!
Does it run thru the ecu off of the rear ABS sensors or is it much more complicated than that?
Ta :y
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The speed of the driven wheels are monitored through the ABS system and, if a wheel is slipping, the brakes on that side are applied to transfer the torque to the other back wheel. If that doesn't work the system talks to the engine ECU which responds by dropping cylinders and/ or retarding the ignition to reduce power on the non-dbw cars. DBW cars appear to lose power by reducing throttle, as it's smoother.
If the TC light is ON the system has been disabled by pressing the button OR there's a fault with it. If the light's off the system is enabled (this is the default after starting the car).
It sounds to me like there's a fault which is causing it to light the TC light, to be honest.
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cars up to about 1998.....
no brake intervention.
ECU drops cylinders
cars from 1998 up to DBW.....
brake intervention and ignition retard
DBW cars.....
throttle opening reduction
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Sounds well complicated!
So if i turn it off from the switch its 100% disabled? Might change the switch first then incase that is faulty....
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Sounds well complicated!
So if i turn it off from the switch its 100% disabled? Might change the switch first then incase that is faulty....
If you press the switch so the light is on, TC is disabled. If the light is off, it's enabled.
I've never known a switch to fail. What are the symptoms? If you start up and drive off the light is off, yes? If it comes on of its' own accord I'd say you have a fault and it's indicating a stored fault code.
I would get the ABS codes read before doing much else, TBH. :-\
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To clarify what Kevin Wood and 2woody have said:
The system is enabled if the light on the dash is OFF, and disabled if the light is ON
Pre 1998 cars, TC cuts cylinders
Post 1998 cars, TC applies brake to rear wheel that is losing traction, if that does not resolve the situation, will start to cut cylinders (2.5/3.0) or reduce throttle (2.6/3.2)
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Sounds well complicated!
So if i turn it off from the switch its 100% disabled? Might change the switch first then incase that is faulty....
I might have a switch here you can have just to eliminate it Paul.If you want to nip up and see me when Im at work,I should be able to read the codes for you too. :y
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Should say - switch is FOC to Paul as I owe him a favour.Not trying to sell anything in this area. ;)
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Sounds well complicated!
So if i turn it off from the switch its 100% disabled? Might change the switch first then incase that is faulty....
I might have a switch here you can have just to eliminate it Paul.If you want to nip up and see me when Im at work,I should be able to read the codes for you too. :y
Its a simple Push To Make switch, thus if you just remove the switch, the system should remain enabled (dash light OFF) inless there is a fault.
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Thanks for all your detailed answers fellas, much appreciated!
I get how its meant to work, my issue is that on occasions when i do decide to turn it off it just won't - no matter how hard or repeated press the button >:( It just won't turn off, then sometimes it will turn on and off like it should which makes me think its the switch or the wiring behind as the switch wasn't there when i got the car, the police used the +feed for some of the equipment.
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Sounds well complicated!
So if i turn it off from the switch its 100% disabled? Might change the switch first then incase that is faulty....
I might have a switch here you can have just to eliminate it Paul.If you want to nip up and see me when Im at work,I should be able to read the codes for you too. :y
Car is OTR at the moment mate as the drivers door lock mechanism needed sorting (cheers Twiggy ;) ) and i'm trying to sort the battery drain that is causing the NEW battery to go flat in 2-3 days as well as the T/C issues, just want to sort a few niggles.
Any chance of popping that switch in the post ;)
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Assuming I can find it yep.Will have a look in the morning and let you know.As said,it may well not be that,but at least you can eliminate it from your enquiries. :y
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Thanks for all your detailed answers fellas, much appreciated!
I get how its meant to work, my issue is that on occasions when i do decide to turn it off it just won't - no matter how hard or repeated press the button >:( It just won't turn off, then sometimes it will turn on and off like it should which makes me think its the switch or the wiring behind as the switch wasn't there when i got the car, the police used the +feed for some of the equipment.
Sounds like the switch has been wired to something that's not always active, IMHO. If the plod have messed about with the wiring anything's possible.
I'll have a look at the wiring diags when I get a chance and see how it's supposed to be wired. :y
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the police used the +feed for some of the equipment.
would have saved time if you'd said that first. The shoddy nature of the Police wiring will undoubtedly be the cause.
I'm on my fourth Police car now - every single modification to all of them by Police has been done in a less than competent fashion - some of them downright dangerous.
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Thanks for all your detailed answers fellas, much appreciated!
I get how its meant to work, my issue is that on occasions when i do decide to turn it off it just won't - no matter how hard or repeated press the button >:( It just won't turn off, then sometimes it will turn on and off like it should which makes me think its the switch or the wiring behind as the switch wasn't there when i got the car, the police used the +feed for some of the equipment.
Sounds like the switch has been wired to something that's not always active, IMHO. If the plod have messed about with the wiring anything's possible.
I'll have a look at the wiring diags when I get a chance and see how it's supposed to be wired. :y
Ah that would be smashing, thanks Kevin 8) :y ;)
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Switch cureently en route via Royal Snail. :y............probably not the problem but at least you will always have a spare. ::)
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Sounds well complicated!
So if i turn it off from the switch its 100% disabled? Might change the switch first then incase that is faulty....
I might have a switch here you can have just to eliminate it Paul.If you want to nip up and see me when Im at work,I should be able to read the codes for you too. :y
Car is OTR at the moment mate as the drivers door lock mechanism needed sorting (cheers Twiggy ;) ) and i'm trying to sort the battery drain that is causing the NEW battery to go flat in 2-3 days as well as the T/C issues, just want to sort a few niggles.
Any chance of popping that switch in the post ;)
I have an ex-police car that eats power but as soon as I disconnect the drivers heated seat plug down by the sill it's ok....
Also, my TC wires were cut behind the switch and taped up.... Souldered the back together and TC works fine... :y
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Had similar issues with mine. Plod had fitted a cut off switch to the TC. When they cleared all their gubbins, they rejoined the two wires where their switch had been in the steering column. The only definitive solution was to remove all their butchering and repair/make good any joins/breaks/connections in the VX loom. Now good as gold.
They used white wires with a blue trace iirc for the TC on mine. Ran from the loom behind the switch, and over to somewhere between the fuse/relay box and the instrument cluster. Yours is a similar vintage so might apply to yours too... Same force and all...
Get as much of the centre console looms as possible, 6-10" with plugs, cut the plugs from your looms,(or where plod cuts are/were), and rejoin the new looms/plugs to the car loom. done properly it shouldn't give you any further problem...
HTH, Al.
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As an aside. I've fitted heated seats all round, rear electric windows, and a selection of electrical odds and ends with no real issues. My battery only goes flat if I leave the TV tuner on standby::).
The car did have a new alternator just before I bought it, and only recently had to replace the battery.
When I changed the interior and added bits and bobs, I went through the entire car and removed about 20m of 'left for dead' wiring :0, and repaired/replaced the original loom. Have had no electrical accessory issues since.
Takes time, but worth doing imho.
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Thanks for all your detailed answers fellas, much appreciated!
I get how its meant to work, my issue is that on occasions when i do decide to turn it off it just won't - no matter how hard or repeated press the button >:( It just won't turn off, then sometimes it will turn on and off like it should which makes me think its the switch or the wiring behind as the switch wasn't there when i got the car, the police used the +feed for some of the equipment.
Sounds like the switch has been wired to something that's not always active, IMHO. If the plod have messed about with the wiring anything's possible.
I'll have a look at the wiring diags when I get a chance and see how it's supposed to be wired. :y
Ah that would be smashing, thanks Kevin 8) :y ;)
I think its just Push to Make to ground a wire from ECU...
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Sounds like the switch has been wired to something that's not always active, IMHO. If the plod have messed about with the wiring anything's possible.
I'll have a look at the wiring diags when I get a chance and see how it's supposed to be wired. :y
Did you manage to have a look mate? :y
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Sounds like the switch has been wired to something that's not always active, IMHO. If the plod have messed about with the wiring anything's possible.
I'll have a look at the wiring diags when I get a chance and see how it's supposed to be wired. :y
Did you manage to have a look mate? :y
BTTT for Mr Kevin Wood ;D
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Sounds like the switch has been wired to something that's not always active, IMHO. If the plod have messed about with the wiring anything's possible.
I'll have a look at the wiring diags when I get a chance and see how it's supposed to be wired. :y
Did you manage to have a look mate? :y
BTTT for Mr Kevin Wood ;D
Ermm. Yes. ::)
Brown wire with red tracer from pin 31 of the ECU, grounded by the switch.
I can imagine that if the ground wire to the switch has come adrift, whether it works might depend on whether the headlights are on. Does the illumination in the switch work?
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I'll try and get the stereo surround off over the weekend and see the wiring..
Yes it does illuminate Kevin....
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**UPDATE**
After further investigation by another mate who seems most interested in my problems, it turns out that the T/C button only works if the headlights are switched off! ::) ::)
Works fine otherwise, turn the lights on and it stops working! Very odd but no doubt is down to me rewiring all the switches around the radio when i got the car as TVP had made a right hash of it - And so have i it would appear lol
Any comments? ha ha ;D
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All wiring now checked and the issue still pursists, what on earth could it be?!
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All wiring now checked and the issue still pursists, what on earth could it be?!
The ground connection to the switch. Current through the illumination circuit is pulling the ground connection up to the point where the switch doesn't ground the line from the ECU.
(Ground wire from the switch is shared by the bulb in the switch)
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Mine played up for a while, took 3 seperate attempts to sort it. :'(
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Thanks Kevin, :y i've messaged what you've said to my mechanic friend to have a further look - as i'm off to work. :'(
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Just re-read and had a 'Eureka' moment. The switch has been earthed through the Grey/Yellow switch illumintion wire as well as/instead of the Brown earth wire. ::)
Might I politely refer you to my earlier post :P:
Had similar issues with mine. Plod had fitted a cut off switch to the TC. When they cleared all their gubbins, they rejoined the two wires where their switch had been in the steering column. The only definitive solution was to remove all their butchering and repair/make good any joins/breaks/connections in the VX loom. Now good as gold.
They used white wires with a blue trace iirc for the TC on mine. Ran from the loom behind the switch, and over to somewhere between the fuse/relay box and the instrument cluster. Yours is a similar vintage so might apply to yours too... Same force and all...
Get as much of the centre console looms as possible, 6-10" with plugs, cut the plugs from your looms,(or where plod cuts are/were), and rejoin the new looms/plugs to the car loom. done properly it shouldn't give you any further problem...
HTH, Al.
Again HTH, Al. :y
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Just re-read and had a 'Eureka' moment. The switch has been earthed through the Grey/Yellow switch illumintion wire as well as/instead of the Brown earth wire. ::)
Yep. That's the train of thought I was following. Probably "instead of". Failing that, the illumination feed and ground wires have been swapped over so the switch only has a ground connection when the illumination is off and the ground connection can be made through the bulb.
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Probably quite easy to do when reconnecting :-\ There's not alot of space to play with unless you pull the cage out completely, hence the 6" loom/plug suggestion. :)
The Plod sparkies do tend to chop the wires quite close to the plugs which doesn't help either. ::)
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Hi guys,
Paul, not hijacking; just interested to learn more :)
Are we saying then that what happened with Paul's car is that the police took off his TC button to make space for something they needed and simply re-routed the wire. Hence only the probs when headlights are on?
Would it then just be a case of finding the wire and routing it back to the TC button?
Interesting thread :)
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Well it looks like we've finally sorted it, although to do this we had to cut the illumination feed.
On the loom i got off of Rob there were the 3 feeds, Brown, Grey/Yellow and Brown/Red but on the car loom was, Brown, Grey/Yellow and Black/Red.
So we left connected: Brown - Brown, Brown/Red - Black/Red as this seems to be fine allowing the switch to operate as normal with or without the headlamps being on or off! Haven't a clue why the illumination feed was causing issues tho... :-\