Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Bionic on 07 November 2011, 17:01:12
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:-\
This problem started a few weeks ago and sometimes just would not start. Leave it a while try again and it starts. No codes (DLK read them) were listed so we jointly decided that it may be the Crankshaft sensor. Just changed that and it started straight off. stopped and started it a dozen times and it was ok! That was until I took my missus to the docs and it cut out when we were almost there. What a heavy pig to steer and brake with no assistance :-[
Called out Green Flag and they eventually turned up and had a look did sod all and then tried the key :o As my luck the thing started and I drove home....well almost cos it concked again 500 yards from it. Rang them again and they said that they might not be able to come out cos it was the same fault! I told them that as their man had done sod all and that he should have made sure the car was ok before he left I was not a happy bunny, considering that they knew I was registered disabled too and also registered with them for priority service. Anyway they relented so I walked, more like hobbled back to the car and sat in it for a while trying it now and again without luck. I then had the bright idea to walk to my storage unit and get hold of my small jack to lift up the back and try the filter for fuel. Damn thing started when I tried it again and so I managed to get it home at last. Ranf Green Flag and told them not to bother. Wait till they send me the report to fill in about thei level of service and satisfaction with their work!!!!!
Thinks maybe with the now regular cutting out and poor starting that it may be the FUEL pump that is a going cronky.
Last time it cut out I undid the fuel lines under the bonnet and there was nothing there - well almost nothing and I never let the tank get below half!
I have yet to change the fuel filter too which I am doing in the morning.
:D Now my friends - just where is the fuel pump and is there any way I can tell if it is working without a dismantle (wherever it is that is)
The stinger is that it not as if it is badly maintained either cos I spare no expense. :'(
Anyone any ideas??????? :D
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Fuel pump is submerged in tank.
Fuel pump relay is in Relay box.
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Sounds like a blocked fuel ilter to me (if crank sensor has definitely been ruled out). Change the filter before suspecting the pump.
Personally I dont think Ive ever heard o a uel pump going wrong which is why I havent removed them from the cars Ive broken for spares,so far.
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Not ilter - filter. ::) :-[ ;D
As TB said - relay could be a possibility. :y
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Sounds like a blocked fuel filter to me (if crank sensor has definitely been ruled out). Change the filter before suspecting the pump.
Personally I dont think Ive ever heard of a fuel pump going wrong which is why I havent removed them from the cars Ive broken for spares,so far.
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:)
I am changing the filter in the morning and that should then hopefully solve the problem. I will probably - no definitely have a look at the tank pump too just to see if it works with power applied. The relay will also be changed to make the job a gud un!
Thanks all, best get the battery on charge now cos its had a real hammering today :y
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:-[
Very early start this morning at 0205! Stripped the boot out and took off the tank cover plate then turned on the ignition. No noise from fuel pump so I then disconnected the electrical connector from it and tested the supply with a multimeter. There was a reading of 12.6 v which I expected if there was power with the ignition on so the power side is ok.
Green Flag in the five minutes he was there just wiggled a few wires and never even tested the fuel supply so I reckon I will be giving them the order of the boot and go to a more reliable one. Just wait until they send me the satisfaction of service survey to complete cos I pay for national recovery and I broke down again with the same fault 300 yards on. Any suggestions from personal experience?
I then put 12v across the fuel pump where the red and blue wires connect on the tank unit and as there was no action from the fuel pump I presume that the fuel pump is kaput.
Looking at the tank unit the wiring is coloured (reading from left to right cos the unit connector faces to the rear) is red, thick brown, thin brown, blue.
After I have changed the fuel filter first thing I will probably take the tank unit out once it is daylight and try it all again just to be certain. At least I have found a fuel pump I think (hope) online and if I get stuck I will just have to jury rig a temporary one somehow. Has that ever been done before? Time will tell........... :D
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Possibly but I have had mine out this morning and tried it with a power supply and it seems to work by the revs it makes.
I will keep you in mind though as long as its from a 3.0, just say how much.
Right, did all I said I would and removed the fuel pump from the tank and tested it with 12v. It worked straight off. Put it back then changed the filter. That was easy enough but got a bit stinky ;D.
I lifted the relay cover off and tapped each relay cos I do not know which one it is and then I started it. It started and ran for about ten minutes and once it was warmed up it cut out again and would not start up.
Suppose now I have to wait until it cools down again and try it again.............
Anyone any ideas???????? :'(
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IIRC the fuel pump runs when it is told to by the ECU (via the fuel pump relay)
The ECU tells the pump to run if it can sense that the engine is turning (due to a signal from the crank position sensor)
Common wisdom seems to be to check crank position sensor first then fuel pump relay.
A blocked fuel filter would probably allow the car to idle but cause power loss / missfire at full throttle. It would probably upset starting too but I would expect it to pop and fart a bit ::)
[edit]WooHoo the edit button is back :y
If you have been unlucky and your new crank sensor has failed then you should be getting a code 19. When my crank sensor failed (on my early 1994 Omega) it didn't bring up any codes (except the one that says the engine isn't turning)(code 31?) .
I did notice however that the warning light on the dash didn't go out when the engine was cranking. With a good crank sensor it should go out as soon as the ECU can see that the engine is turning. [/edit]
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Sounds like the crank sensor to me. IIRC, it's the immobiliser light that goes out when the ECU detects cranking. If that stays on, 99.999% certainty the crank sensor has had it.
More often than not, you'll get a fault code, but if the failure mode is such that it either gives a signal or not, the ECU won't flag up that it's received an "incorrect" signal since when the sensor fails it assumes the engine's stalled.
I'd at least have a look at the sensor. If the cable is still routed the factory way up by the oil cooler pipes, I'd change it anyway, because it's on borrowed time if it's not currently faulty.
EDIT: Just noticed crank sensor already changed. :-[ Was it a new genuine one?
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Yes and at 45 notes it was robbery. :-\
I have put post onto the Electrical section now because I am convinced that as I now have an excellent fuel supply, and it still cuts out after running a 5 mins or so without any misfires at all and then will not start again until it has been left for bit to 'cool down'. Not that it gets up to running temp anyway. Gremlins they be? :(
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What about the fuel pump relay,they used to be quite a problem on older vauxhalls and the symptoms were much as you describe.
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The relay was bypassed as Kevin said but it made no difference other than proving to me that when I undid the fuel line I got a real shower at full force. YUK :D ;D ;D ;D
Now looking at the EGR in case that has anything to do with my problems of cutting out and then not starting until it has 'rested' a bit.
I have yet another CS sensor coming tomorrow just in case too.
:D :D :D :D
All warning lights go off and stay off once started. No OBDII codes either - not one.......
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Sounds like a blocked fuel ilter to me (if crank sensor has definitely been ruled out). Change the filter before suspecting the pump.
Personally I dont think Ive ever heard o a uel pump going wrong which is why I havent removed them from the cars Ive broken for spares,so far.
Had to change the pump on mine shortly after the crankshaft sensor failed :'( 115k and 120k respectively, not sure if related, fuel relays changed at 165k as were looking scorched.
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One thing is certain - these migs love to dig deep into the pockets :( :'(
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i would think its your crank sensor at fault and breaking down when it gets warm/hot, a replacement one does not mean a working one (the world we live in) when you get your new crank sensor install as the guide on here then go and wrap the old one round the neck of the guy who sold it to you (( errm get your money back first tho)) ;D
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The person who supplied me with the sensor has a great reputation and only removes parts from vehicles he has proven to be running correctly. I have, and many other oofers too, bought from him without prior problems. He is so good he is sending me another to see if it solves the problem. You really cannot get a better service than that and even the postage is free.
:o I have also been informed that many new ones bought from VX as genuine OEM do not always work either so just who can be trusted? :(
Today the EGR is coming off, getting stripped and serviced then put back. I will make a blanking plate up so that if it acts up so if the4 problem persists I can then install the blanking plate and try again.
I will solve it in the end, just patience and loads of tea and sympathy until then ::)
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The person who supplied me with the sensor has a great reputation...
Ahh, so it was a used crank sensor?
The problem is, crank sensors fail due to the routing of the cable by the hot oil pipes. The heat makes the insulation in the cable become brittle. It'll work for years until it either eventually fails or is disturbed, and the insulation cracks up. I've known several Omegas develop crank sensor problems after the wiring has been disturbed by other work.
In other words, just because it was working on the donor car, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be working now the wire has been bent a few times, etc. IMHO, a 2nd hand crank sensor is a false economy.
I would say try a new sensor if you draw a blank with the other ideas. :y
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Hm, I will do that as a last resort cos if it turns out not to be that VX will not take it back if its been used. Fortunately the ABS Trade Card is accepted at both VX dealers in Leicester.
Two coming tomoz so I will try them first. Daz and Steve.
I have put what I did this morning on the Electrical section cos that was what it was all about.
Until them I am going to have a beer and forget the hassles of today. :D