Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: maracus on 21 November 2011, 15:49:22

Title: How many gears???
Post by: maracus on 21 November 2011, 15:49:22
I thought these v6 autos were 4 speed?? It's just that I keep counting 5 shifts. Even if you lock into 3rd afterwards it'll go up then up again. It's deffo in third because if you slow and lock it down a gear until 1st it shifts each time.

Is there an overdrive or some sort of splitter?

Or can I not count?
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: albitz on 21 November 2011, 15:52:00
Something to do with torque convertor lock out. Dont know much about it but an intelligent person will probably explain shortly. ;D :y
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: aaronjb on 21 November 2011, 16:20:26
Yup - three speed with overdrive ('fourth' gear) IIRC, but the torque convertor locks up in 3rd and OD. Accelerate gently enough and you can count five 'shifts' - 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, lock in 3rd, unlock, 3rd to 4th, lock in 4th.

The shuffling in & out of lock at gentle throttle and up & down inclines is what makes the box seem like it's 'hunting' for a gear sometimes, as it can't change gear when the torque convertor is locked up, so you get: 4th with lock->unlock (revs go up)->3rd (revs go up again)->3rd with lock (revs go down)
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: maracus on 21 November 2011, 17:39:10
Ummm- eh?? What locks?? Why? It will probably make more sense when I read it again later..

So it goes from a sloppy fluid connection to a solid locked connection???

I'm confused!!
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: TheBoy on 21 November 2011, 17:41:59
Ummm- eh?? What locks?? Why? It will probably make more sense when I read it again later..

So it goes from a sloppy fluid connection to a solid locked connection???

I'm confused!!
Yup
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: aaronjb on 21 November 2011, 17:42:19
Precisely that - at certain points (basically when the 'load' on the gearbox is low, or you're cruising at a steady speed) the two halves of the torque convertor will be physically locked together; so it behaves like a conventional clutch rather than a hydraulic coupling.

A physical connection is much more efficient than turning x% of the engine power into heat by churning the ATF up in the torque convertor  :y
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: RobG on 21 November 2011, 17:44:21
Yup - three speed with overdrive ('fourth' gear) IIRC, but the torque convertor locks up in 3rd and OD. Accelerate gently enough and you can count five 'shifts' - 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, lock in 3rd, unlock, 3rd to 4th, lock in 4th.

The shuffling in & out of lock at gentle throttle and up & down inclines is what makes the box seem like it's 'hunting' for a gear sometimes, as it can't change gear when the torque convertor is locked up, so you get: 4th with lock->unlock (revs go up)->3rd (revs go up again)->3rd with lock (revs go down)
???  4th gear is the "lock-up"
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: aaronjb on 21 November 2011, 17:48:46
Yup - three speed with overdrive ('fourth' gear) IIRC, but the torque convertor locks up in 3rd and OD. Accelerate gently enough and you can count five 'shifts' - 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, lock in 3rd, unlock, 3rd to 4th, lock in 4th.

The shuffling in & out of lock at gentle throttle and up & down inclines is what makes the box seem like it's 'hunting' for a gear sometimes, as it can't change gear when the torque convertor is locked up, so you get: 4th with lock->unlock (revs go up)->3rd (revs go up again)->3rd with lock (revs go down)
???  4th gear is the "lock-up"

That goes against what I've read here, previously?  Maybe I just misunderstood what I read.
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: RobG on 21 November 2011, 17:56:44
Quote from the resident gearbox guru Sassanach
 "4th" gear IS the tc locking up.i am not aware of it locking in "3rd",please enlighten!   :)
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: aaronjb on 21 November 2011, 18:05:27
AR35 is the 4L30-E, no?

It seems you're right that it doesn't lock up in 3rd, at least according to this bulletin: http://www.transtec.com/downloads/rebuilder_news/4th_q95r-n.pdf (page 5)

But both that and this say it has 4 speeds, not 3: http://www.transtec.com/downloads/rebuilder_news/2nd_q95r-n.pdf

Elsewhere I read that it's a 3-speed box (rear casing) with an additional overdrive (front casing) and lockable torque convertor (TC housing): http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_Automatic_4L30E.pdf

http://scottj.info/files/isuzu/4l30e.pdf (another random PDF I found while trying desperately to find the first two ;D)
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: albitz on 21 November 2011, 18:10:11
Yup - three speed with overdrive ('fourth' gear) IIRC, but the torque convertor locks up in 3rd and OD. Accelerate gently enough and you can count five 'shifts' - 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, lock in 3rd, unlock, 3rd to 4th, lock in 4th.

The shuffling in & out of lock at gentle throttle and up & down inclines is what makes the box seem like it's 'hunting' for a gear sometimes, as it can't change gear when the torque convertor is locked up, so you get: 4th with lock->unlock (revs go up)->3rd (revs go up again)->3rd with lock (revs go down)

I make that six. :-\ ::) ;D
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: aaronjb on 21 November 2011, 18:11:28
I never said maths was my strong point.. ;D although we just decided it doesn't lock the TC in 3rd, so now we're down to four. ;D
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: TheBoy on 21 November 2011, 18:15:08
It is indeed the old 3 speed box with an overdrive unit bolted on the front (thus 2 sumps). 4 speed. Except for post 2001 Opel diesels, which are 5 speed.

The lockup is software controlled, and there are 3 main ECU types (ignoring the 5 speed one we don't have in the UK), each with varying software levels, so its feasible some may lock up in 3rd  :-\
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 November 2011, 20:29:36
Mine certainly locks up in 3rd. And 2nd if you get the autobox fluid really hot. :-X

It does have 4 discrete gear ratios plus TC lockup.
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: maracus on 21 November 2011, 21:40:33
Thanks for that people, confusion solved!! Sorry I missed the conversation I got otherwise distracted.. I will have a read of those links so I can tell others how it works  :y :y
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: fiend61 on 21 November 2011, 21:46:41
Quote
Thanks for that people, confusion solved
im glad somebody is i am totally befuddled (not unusual)  ::) ::)
really glad i have a manual first to fifth and reverse easy  :y ;D ;D
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: maracus on 21 November 2011, 22:40:01
It's been bugging me for ages lol! Not any more now I know what it's doing!


im glad somebody is i am totally befuddled (not unusual)  ::) ::)
really glad i have a manual first to fifth and reverse easy  :y ;D ;D

Or for me now, as proven the other night in the cav, First to third, forget it's manual, stereo on, 5 miles to the next roundabout at 4700rpm, approach the roundabout, stall it.
Title: Re: How many gears???
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 21 November 2011, 22:46:42
Quote
Thanks for that people, confusion solved
im glad somebody is i am totally befuddled (not unusual)  ::) ::)
really glad i have a manual first to fifth and reverse easy  :y ;D ;D

I am really really glad (did I say before ::) ;D ) that I have a manual and it locks up in all 5 gears without thinking ;D :y