Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Koomorph on 25 November 2011, 19:29:10
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Evening all! :)
I was sad to hear from my dad yesterday that despite months of trouble free motoring, the miggy refused to start yesterday..... :(
I popped over today to read the fault codes and see if we could fire her up.
So here is the strange thing...... there are no fault codes stored using the pedal trick method (I even tried it twice..... just constant flashing, no pauses... I counted them until over 40+ flashes....)..... :o
So when I tried to fire her up..... she turns over.... and just barely tries to catch.... but doesn't quite make it.....
If I crank her for 7+ seconds, she seems to be catching better and better..... but still doesn't fully fire. :( ..... Really odd.
When she is trying to catch she feels quite lumpy (as she would do I guess)..... which makes me think it may be a coil pack issue (espcially as it's been so damp recently). Battery was new in January, so shouldn't be the problem (hopefully). But still..... no fault codes.... !
I've recorded a sound file on my phone to upload to hear so you guys can have a listen as it's cranking but I've not seem to be able to find a way of uploading it as an attachment.
Any help or advice appreciated.
Thanks everyone as always!
Raf
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Hi Raf,
Absolutely no offence intended, but it wouldn't be the first time I've seen this: Is there fuel in the tank? :y
Which engine is in this one?
Cheers,
James
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crank sensor doesnt always put up codes :y
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Hahaha! No offence taken at all matey ;) - and I absolutely didn't check! But knowing my dad - it's MORE than possible!!! :y
Will check again tomorrow with him! (but thinking about it I don't recall the fuel light being on....)
In case it isn't the fuel..... (I really hope it is!) what do you gents reckon it could possibly be... Also anyway I can upload/attach the audio file for you to listen to?
Will check the scuttle tomorrow to see if there was any possible water ingress into 2-4-6 bank.... ::)
Hi Raf,
Absolutely no offence intended, but it wouldn't be the first time I've seen this: Is there fuel in the tank? :y
Which engine is in this one?
Cheers,
James
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crank sensor doesnt always put up codes :y
Although that would be a realtively easy fix - the crank sensor was changed 18 months ago and routed round away from the exhaust manifold.... so I'm thinking it's quite possibly not that. :-\
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so I'm thinking it's quite possibly not that
and quite possibly could ;) just keep it in mind
a quick check would be to whip it out and clean the face of it replace and try again :y
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Yeh, fair point. :y
As I recall though, I'm not sure the car even turned over when the crank sensor was gone last time.....? I could be wrong though... my memory isn't what it was..... ;)
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the car will crank just wont fire up, no fuel or spark or if on its last legs will sometimes send a signal and it might try and start or even start :y
dont get me wrong i am not saying it is the crank sensor but looking at your symptoms it is the common symptoms for a failed/failing sensor :y
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constantly flashing light is the immobiliser...
has the key been taken apart for a new battery? if so is the tiny plastic transponder still present?
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i thought a constant flashing eml light whilst doing pedal trick was no codes :-\ :-\
am i wrong again and jimbob right with the same solution twice in one day ;D
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The constant flashing light is during the pedal trick test.... I also thought it meant no fault codes.
But same here..... I'm no expert! :-[
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Constant flashing during ignition on is imob.
...during pedal trick, which would be a 2.6 or 3.2, constant flashing is no codes.
Pedal trick only works on v engines with drive by wire. So pedal trick on the wrong engine could give a flashing light regardless of whats done with the pedals at ignition on if there was an imob issue, is that correct? Or is it the engine light that flashes imobiliser light, not car spanner light?
Anyway, given it's trying to fire I doubt imob to blame. Does sound like fuel.
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Constant flashing during ignition on is imob.
...during pedal trick, which would be a 2.6 or 3.2, constant flashing is no codes.
Pedal trick only works on v engines with drive by wire. So pedal trick on the wrong engine could give a flashing light regardless of whats done with the pedals at ignition on if there was an imob issue, is that correct? Or is it the engine light that flashes imobiliser light, not car spanner light?
Anyway, given it's trying to fire I doubt imob to blame. Does sound like fuel.
I'll go and check out the fuel situation today..... but I've certianly managed to get fault codes out of her before using the pedal trick (2.6 engine)....
Here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=76280.0
And here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=76112.0
Would love to post the recording of it trying to fire if anyone has any advice on that....? ???
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I have a similar problem. Made a post few days ago.
I've been on diagnostic tools, checked tons of stuff and it still has problems starting. Crank it and it struggles to start. From case to case either you can start it up or I just leave it a min or two and come back and then it manages to start. This happens only when the engine is cold. After start while still not on working temp it tends to choke if you slam on the gas pedal. This happens only when on gasoline, when you switch on LPG it works like a charm. When it gets to working temp either way it works normally.
No errors too. Will go to a garage next week to poke it a bit more.
Either its a sneaky sensor not working properly or its the fuel system but I doubt because we've checked it all.
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Constant flashing during ignition on is imob.
...during pedal trick, which would be a 2.6 or 3.2, constant flashing is no codes.
Pedal trick only works on v engines with drive by wire. So pedal trick on the wrong engine could give a flashing light regardless of whats done with the pedals at ignition on if there was an imob issue, is that correct? Or is it the engine light that flashes imobiliser light, not car spanner light?
Anyway, given it's trying to fire I doubt imob to blame. Does sound like fuel.
I'll go and check out the fuel situation today..... but I've certianly managed to get fault codes out of her before using the pedal trick (2.6 engine)....
Here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=76280.0
And here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=76112.0
Would love to post the recording of it trying to fire if anyone has any advice on that....? ???
Ok so no codes then.
If it has fuel and fuel filter not blocked/has been changed recently within schedule I would be looking at getting it on a tech2 to check all systems, which may well not be possible, or in the absence of any other clues just change the crank sensor for new genuine gm item and, tbh, hope that sorts it.
There is no evidence to say cs has failed other than the symptoms you describe, which are typical. Although the fact it's firing on the odd cycle is odd. Maybe it's fuel, or the ecu doesn't know the cs has failed yet if the car hasn't run with it failed in order to see the fault(ok, surmising a bit now)
Has there been any history of poor starting to support crank sensor theory?
Check fuel and filter, if ok fit crank sensor. :-\
See what others say though....
Ps, as you've had water in through the scuttle is it worth checking the crank sensor plug for corrosion/bad connection?(long shot) It sits on the same bracket as the fuel injector loom plug at the back of the engine under scuttle pas side. Fiddly job.
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I have a similar problem. Made a post few days ago.
I've been on diagnostic tools, checked tons of stuff and it still has problems starting. Crank it and it struggles to start. From case to case either you can start it up or I just leave it a min or two and come back and then it manages to start. This happens only when the engine is cold. After start while still not on working temp it tends to choke if you slam on the gas pedal. This happens only when on gasoline, when you switch on LPG it works like a charm. When it gets to working temp either way it works normally.
No errors too. Will go to a garage next week to poke it a bit more.
Either its a sneaky sensor not working properly or its the fuel system but I doubt because we've checked it all.
Similar for you, crank sensor sees the crank position to work out timing of the spark. If the cs is failed or failing it may adjust spark timing incorrectly, or intermittently fail completely, engine temp is known to affect failing crank sensor. Some times fires when hot not cold, or vice versa.
Ignore LPG behavior until the basic engine is fine on petrol under all conditions. Interesting though.
Again, see what others say...
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Another vote here for the fuel system. Had something like this in an old Corsa. Was the fuel filter - was all gunked up. If it hasn't been done in a while it won't do it any harm to be replaced. Would the Omega ECU generate a code for low fuel pressure?
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Righto - went over to my dads with 5lt of petrol just in case..... his tank was already 1/8th full and the petrol light wasn't on - but we put the fuel in anyway.
Tried to start her up..... after cranking for about 5 seconds and similarly to yesterday.... I could feel she was trying to catch..... I carried on cranking and gave a little throttle.... this helped and she was almost catching........!! ..... carried on for another 5 seconds while gently applying part throttle..... and with a bit of a caugh and splutter she caught and fired up!!! :y And was running totally smooth!!
Now, I'm still not sure it was a lack of fuel that was to blame.... but it could have been. ???
I'm not sure when the filter was changed, will need to check the paperwork.
So I thought I'd see if there are any leaks onto the coils through the scuttle - poured water over the windscreen.... and sure enough.... a few tiny drips over the passenger side coil...... but a LOT more drips through the windscreen wiper hole over the driver side coil!
So - can you gents point me in the right direction for a couple of bit please:
1) Is there a guide for removing the scuttle and WHERE we should apply the silicone seal to prevent further drippage? Should that o-ring seal under in the wiper hole be replaced?
2) In case it is a dodgy/old fuel filter - where is it located and is it relatively easy to change over?
Thanks again as always everyone! :y
Raf
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Fuel filter is at rear, silver (once) aluminum canister drivers side(on uk car) of dif, forward of fuel tank. Tricky clips if you've not done one before, need three pairs of hands or the correct pliers. Either way you WILL get petrol in your eye, if not extremely careful.
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Fuel pick up in tank ? ?
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OK, thanks Chris and all, I'll need to do the scuttle first I think to stop it leaking any more and then see how it goes.
Thanks again! :y
Raf