Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Humpy on 07 December 2011, 11:57:41
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I think my manifold gasket has started blowing. Went down to Calne near Swindon from Tunbridge Wells and noticed it after we'd got back. Sounds like the rear pot of the three which seems favourite judging by the other postings I've looked at on here. My question is, is it really that much of a pig to do? Just been signed off for a week so don't relish working out in the cold for days if it is! I understand you have to undo the engine mount and raise the engine up a bit to get at everything but do you go in from above or below? There's also talk of a coolant pipe with O rings? Anybody got any pics of what the nearside of the engine looks like out of the car? The Haynes manual says to take the engine out but that seems a bit extreme! Any help would be appreciated.
Humpy
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After reading horror stories of replacing the n/s exhaust manifold I took mine to my local well trusted garage.
He was not that keen on the job as he also said engine needs moving around on the mounts to get at the nuts,but he took the job on.He fixed priced it at 3.5 hours but when I collected it he said he would never do that job again as it is very restricted for space.He did say even with stops he spent around 6 hours in total so I got a result.
Others do say it is less of an issue but us mortals can only admire their skills. :y
Coolant pipe removal is only required for the O/Side bank as it runs from the back of the head to the radiator pipework.
I wish you good luck if you attempt it ,especially this time of year and outside....from my memory my garage friend told me most of the work was done from below as it is the only way to see what you are doing
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You need to remove the B-bolt and get teh dipstick tube out of the way.
The difficult thing about this job is that most of it has to be done from underneath, I have actualy done one in less than 2 hours before without removing the mount but it does depend on how easily the cat comes off etc.
Do use new studs and nuts though.
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(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/omega/eg01.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/omega/eg02.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/omega/eg05.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/omega/eg08.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/omega/eg12.jpg)
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it took a whole day and a bit more for us mortals ;D
honestly if I will do it another time, engine out no debate for me..
reason is you cant torque properly , area is very tight ..
ps: there are 2 types of gaskets one is layered steel and you have to use this one.. the other have very short life and starts to leak after some time ..
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Thanks all, and thanks Cem for the pics, it kinda makes sense now. Ish! I think I'll see if I can persuade a mate to do it for some drinking vouchers. At least he can use the workshop where he works rather than me struggling outside in the cold :y
Humpy
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Very wise move..imho ;D :y
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Interestingly, realised now that my problem is a sticky tappet :-[ Used the screwdriver on the rocker cover on that side and its definately a sticky tappet. I must admit, the car could do with a service (red face!) so what would you recommend? Obviously an oil change, possibly with flushing oil as well and or an oil treatment?
Humpy
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Scratch the last post, its definately a blowing manifold gasket :'( It was mentioned to me that it may be a cracked manifold as they are well known for cracking. Is this true? If so I'll get a spare before we ever take it apart just to be safe.
Humpy
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Its the 4 pots that suffer cracked manifolds, i've done quite a few V6 manifolds and not come across a cracked one yet ;)
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If you do the job yourself prepare for a absolutely awful job
It can be done with the engine in place but its a real swine
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When my n/s gasket was replaced I had the fore thought to get hold of a spare manifold incase the original was found to be cracked when removed.
No sign of any damage except a very suspect thin gasket,so if you do find yours has a crack,which I think is very unlikely,I have a spare one sat here and not a million miles away .
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Thanks Amba and the othrs for the advice. It doesn't look like I'll be doing the job as a;I have to work outside (not ideal this time of year!) and b; I'm signed off work at the mo so that wouldn't look good either!
I'll appeal for a spare on in the parts section just in case. All avenues covered and all that!
Humpy
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Remember this post? Well, a mate of a mate has had a look at it and decided he cant do it as the engine does need removing! Unfortunately, I'm still off work and haven't got anywhere to do this, is there anybody local to me who would tackle it? I know theres a few guys that do work on these cars and if need be I'd be happy to bring the car to you. Otherwise, if the engines got to come out, this is going to cost a packet, correct? :'(
Humpy
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As evidenced by all the posts on the suject on the forum,the engine doesnt need to come out.Ive never done the job,but its obviously not an easy one.I would suggest you head north up the M6 to one of the people who do it regularily,or see if JamesV6 fancies coming to you to do it.
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there are 2 options.. either fix the problem side or do both sides at a time..
I have done (by help) both sides at different times (didnt need to wait long maximum a year ) and also done both sides at the same time.. (HG changed)
imo both sides when engine out is simpler, better and shorter.. but with a drawback, you need some equipment and help to take engine out.. so your choice :-\
but in any case buy the gasket which is composed of metal sheets not the other (both original)
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I must remind that its too cold nowadays for that kind of job even if you work in a garage.. many plastic clips, connectors can be easily broken , so its better you delay the job until weather becomes more "normal"
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so its better you delay the job until weather becomes more "normal"
My thoughts exactly :-\
I have got the gasket from Vauxhall so it should be right!
Humpy
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this is the correct one.. matt color..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-V6-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-GASKET-OMEGA-CAVALIER-/370223204957 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-V6-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-GASKET-OMEGA-CAVALIER-/370223204957)
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Whilst I agree with Cem that the weather is cack, and the job is not THAT urgent... prolonging it for a long long time could cause the exhaust gasses to keep cutting somewhat of a channel in the ali head (I've seen it pit them a little before).
I'd be happpy to do the job, but only really if the car could be left with me. I may be the exception to the rule, but my method of attack is just to whip the cylinder head off, and change the manifold with the head out of the car.
Yes it's quite a bit more work, but MUCH more preferable to struggling and rolling around on the driveway.... and makes it much easier to porperly flatten the surfaces etc to prevent it happening again, also makes it easier to clean the threads out, and tackle any stubborn nuts...
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Whilst I agree with Cem that the weather is cack, and the job is not THAT urgent... prolonging it for a long long time could cause the exhaust gasses to keep cutting somewhat of a channel in the ali head (I've seen it pit them a little before).
I'd be happpy to do the job, but only really if the car could be left with me. I may be the exception to the rule, but my method of attack is just to whip the cylinder head off, and change the manifold with the head out of the car.
Yes it's quite a bit more work, but MUCH more preferable to struggling and rolling around on the driveway.... and makes it much easier to porperly flatten the surfaces etc to prevent it happening again, also makes it easier to clean the threads out, and tackle any stubborn nuts...
James, add me to your exception.. :y working under the car in an evil tight area , makes the job unnecessarily long and hard.. and whilst the heads are out do everything once , pay once .. :y :y :y
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Whilst I agree with Cem that the weather is cack, and the job is not THAT urgent... prolonging it for a long long time could cause the exhaust gasses to keep cutting somewhat of a channel in the ali head (I've seen it pit them a little before).
I'd be happpy to do the job, but only really if the car could be left with me. I may be the exception to the rule, but my method of attack is just to whip the cylinder head off, and change the manifold with the head out of the car.
Yes it's quite a bit more work, but MUCH more preferable to struggling and rolling around on the driveway.... and makes it much easier to porperly flatten the surfaces etc to prevent it happening again, also makes it easier to clean the threads out, and tackle any stubborn nuts...
James, add me to your exception.. :y working under the car in an evil tight area , makes the job unnecessarily long and hard.. and whilst the heads are out do everything once , pay once .. :y :y :y
:y :y :y
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Whilst I agree with Cem that the weather is cack, and the job is not THAT urgent... prolonging it for a long long time could cause the exhaust gasses to keep cutting somewhat of a channel in the ali head (I've seen it pit them a little before).
I'd be happpy to do the job, but only really if the car could be left with me. I may be the exception to the rule, but my method of attack is just to whip the cylinder head off, and change the manifold with the head out of the car.
Yes it's quite a bit more work, but MUCH more preferable to struggling and rolling around on the driveway.... and makes it much easier to porperly flatten the surfaces etc to prevent it happening again, also makes it easier to clean the threads out, and tackle any stubborn nuts...
James, add me to your exception.. :y working under the car in an evil tight area , makes the job unnecessarily long and hard.. and whilst the heads are out do everything once , pay once .. :y :y :y
Personally I think it would be asking the customer to pay twice possibly three times more to make it easier on the person doing the job ::)
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Totally agree,Pete.
Most of us want to keep our cars running in the best possible health and when a nsaty job crops up it bad enough,but when you then have to factor into the cost extra gaskets ,probably belt and possibly tensioners etc etc it gets very costly.
Obviously it is different if you can do these jobs yourself then why not strip it right down.
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Hmmm. In the end I took it to a local garage that I know and trust (thanks James for the offer but the logistics :( ) Now the engine is out it's clearer to see whats been going on. The nearside head gasket has been weeping coolant at the back which has caused the manifold stud on the corner to corrode which is why the gasket is blowing! Also, the coil pack is cracked and the clutch thrust bearing has seen better days. I think I'll change the clutch (well, they will) while its all out but what about the coil pack? Would you change a cracked (where the fixing flange is on the left as you look at it) coil pack and would you do both head gaskets or just the one? Thanks for any advice in advance.
Humpy
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personally I would change both gaskets and change all necessary parts ..
but this is valid if you are planning to use the car for long term and if budget permits..
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Whilst I agree with Cem that the weather is cack, and the job is not THAT urgent... prolonging it for a long long time could cause the exhaust gasses to keep cutting somewhat of a channel in the ali head (I've seen it pit them a little before).
I'd be happpy to do the job, but only really if the car could be left with me. I may be the exception to the rule, but my method of attack is just to whip the cylinder head off, and change the manifold with the head out of the car.
Yes it's quite a bit more work, but MUCH more preferable to struggling and rolling around on the driveway.... and makes it much easier to porperly flatten the surfaces etc to prevent it happening again, also makes it easier to clean the threads out, and tackle any stubborn nuts...
James, add me to your exception.. :y working under the car in an evil tight area , makes the job unnecessarily long and hard.. and whilst the heads are out do everything once , pay once .. :y :y :y
Personally I think it would be asking the customer to pay twice possibly three times more to make it easier on the person doing the job ::)
Are you implying I would rip someone off?
I woudn't "ask" anyone to pay more than the job was worth. And if I did it in a way that made it easier for me, why are you assuming I would be passing that cost on to a customer? >:(
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Whilst I agree with Cem that the weather is cack, and the job is not THAT urgent... prolonging it for a long long time could cause the exhaust gasses to keep cutting somewhat of a channel in the ali head (I've seen it pit them a little before).
I'd be happpy to do the job, but only really if the car could be left with me. I may be the exception to the rule, but my method of attack is just to whip the cylinder head off, and change the manifold with the head out of the car.
Yes it's quite a bit more work, but MUCH more preferable to struggling and rolling around on the driveway.... and makes it much easier to porperly flatten the surfaces etc to prevent it happening again, also makes it easier to clean the threads out, and tackle any stubborn nuts...
James, add me to your exception.. :y working under the car in an evil tight area , makes the job unnecessarily long and hard.. and whilst the heads are out do everything once , pay once .. :y :y :y
Personally I think it would be asking the customer to pay twice possibly three times more to make it easier on the person doing the job ::)
Are you implying I would rip someone off?
I woudn't "ask" anyone to pay more than the job was worth. And if I did it in a way that made it easier for me, why are you assuming I would be passing that cost on to a customer? >:(
No, i'm just saying why go to the expense of replacing a cambelt kit, water pump, camcover gasket and O rings, and a head gasket just to do an exhaust manifold gasket. I would charge around £200 to do a passenger side manifold gasket and if you can remove a head and supply and fit all those parts for lets say £300, I must be doing something wrong.
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Whilst I agree with Cem that the weather is cack, and the job is not THAT urgent... prolonging it for a long long time could cause the exhaust gasses to keep cutting somewhat of a channel in the ali head (I've seen it pit them a little before).
I'd be happpy to do the job, but only really if the car could be left with me. I may be the exception to the rule, but my method of attack is just to whip the cylinder head off, and change the manifold with the head out of the car.
Yes it's quite a bit more work, but MUCH more preferable to struggling and rolling around on the driveway.... and makes it much easier to porperly flatten the surfaces etc to prevent it happening again, also makes it easier to clean the threads out, and tackle any stubborn nuts...
James, add me to your exception.. :y working under the car in an evil tight area , makes the job unnecessarily long and hard.. and whilst the heads are out do everything once , pay once .. :y :y :y
Personally I think it would be asking the customer to pay twice possibly three times more to make it easier on the person doing the job ::)
Are you implying I would rip someone off?
I woudn't "ask" anyone to pay more than the job was worth. And if I did it in a way that made it easier for me, why are you assuming I would be passing that cost on to a customer? >:(
No, i'm just saying why go to the expense of replacing a cambelt kit, water pump, camcover gasket and O rings, and a head gasket just to do an exhaust manifold gasket. I would charge around £200 to do a passenger side manifold gasket and if you can remove a head and supply and fit all those parts for lets say £300, I must be doing something wrong.
We could go around in circles on this one forever.
You could argue if the cambelt kit is near due, and camcover gaskets are past their best, the owner would make a huge saving on labour having it done in one hit.
I wouldn't fork out myself for a cambelt kit (unless the owner wanted to provide one), but I WOULD provide a head and camcover gasket, if I used the head removal method to make it easier for me.
So -
Manifold G - £10
Head G - £10
Cam Cover G - £22
Misc (doughty washers, bit of sealant etc) £10
Parts cost £50.
So if charging £200, you'd still make £150.
I'd rather make £150 leisurely doing jobs I enjoy, up top, than rolling around on the floor, fighting in a tight space.
It's each to their own really mate. There's nothing stopping people saying "no thanks" :y
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Trouble is the real parts list is:
Manifold to head Gasket - £10
Manifold to front pipe Gasket - £5
Head G - £10
Head Bolts - £10
Cam Cover G - £22
Misc (doughty washers, bit of sealant etc) £10
Antifreeze - £10
Oil - £10
Oil Filter - £4
So a bit more :y