Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: cem_devecioglu on 16 January 2012, 14:18:30
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last page shows the summary of all tests done..
http://www.goodyear.eu/tr_tr/images/TUV-SUD-report-UG8.pdf
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Doesn't look like we're getting a proper winter here, so...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26795734/Smilies/tumbleweed.gif)
;)
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Doesn't look like we're getting a proper winter here, so...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26795734/Smilies/tumbleweed.gif)
;)
mmm. I understand wrong so need to modify :-\
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It was -4C this morning, that's pretty proper for me ;D (No snow, just frost, admittedly)
The winter tyres have a ton more grip at that temperature .. heck, I think they have more grip at -4C than the (cheap) summer tyres had when it was warm & dry! ;D Though that didn't stop me from having a nice (!) four wheel drift off a roundabout on Saturday :-[
Cem - Kevin meant we're not getting any snow, not that you can't get good winter tyres here ;) (I have Goodyear UG 8 on the car right now..)
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It was -4C this morning, that's pretty proper for me ;D (No snow, just frost, admittedly)
The winter tyres have a ton more grip at that temperature .. heck, I think they have more grip at -4C than the (cheap) summer tyres had when it was warm & dry! ;D Though that didn't stop me from having a nice (!) four wheel drift off a roundabout on Saturday :-[
Cem - Kevin meant we're not getting any snow, not that you can't get good winter tyres here ;) (I have Goodyear UG 8 on the car right now..)
my coin dropped a bit late ;D
anyway , weekend was snowy here but today there were no snow on roads .. EXCEPT >>> frost.. and its -6 at the moment.. so its a bigger problem than snow.. :-\
ps: please dont drift with brand new UG 8 :'(
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It's nice knowing I still have 'normal' grip levels when it's cold and frosty; although I try not to drive quite as fast as I would in the summer because I know that - winter tyres or not - you can't break the laws of physics, and a big patch of ice could really ruin my day ;)
During the day (when it's been sunny) though, you could easily argue you don't need them - there was certainly plenty of grip available when I went out in a friends car (a 2008 Porsche 911 C2S with the PDK gearbox - holy hell that's a fast car.. which I now want.) despite it having summer tyres on it.
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Well after experiencing Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip M+S tyres I can only say that they must be smoking something very strange if Goodyear think they've made anything remotely acceptable to place on any vehicle that's capable of more than 20mph in the rain.
Quite honestly they are absolutely lethal. Even on a DTi the rear is like a pendulum after every corner at moderate speeds. The used l'zen M+S tyres I have on the front are infinitely better in every respect. To put the Goodyears in perspective, I would sooner drive a car with Michelin energy tyres with 1.6mm of tread on them in any winter road conditions.
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Well after experiencing Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip M+S tyres I can only say that they must be smoking something very strange if Goodyear think they've made anything remotely acceptable to place on any vehicle that's capable of more than 20mph in the rain.
Quite honestly they are absolutely lethal. Even on a DTi the rear is like a pendulum after every corner at moderate speeds. The used l'zen M+S tyres I have on the front are infinitely better in every respect. To put the Goodyears in perspective, I would sooner drive a car with Michelin energy tyres with 1.6mm of tread on them in any winter road conditions.
;D
so you say that test winning winter tires are crap on wet roads ? ???
did you check their dates ?
there is definitely something wrong..
or all those test makers are reporting b*llox and my experience too ;D
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Well after experiencing Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip M+S tyres I can only say that they must be smoking something very strange if Goodyear think they've made anything remotely acceptable to place on any vehicle that's capable of more than 20mph in the rain.
Quite honestly they are absolutely lethal. Even on a DTi the rear is like a pendulum after every corner at moderate speeds. The used l'zen M+S tyres I have on the front are infinitely better in every respect. To put the Goodyears in perspective, I would sooner drive a car with Michelin energy tyres with 1.6mm of tread on them in any winter road conditions.
;D
so you say that test winning winter tires are crap on wet roads ? ???
did you check their dates ?
there is definitely something wrong..
or all those test makers are reporting b*llox and my experience too ;D
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-Auto-Bild-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Winter-Tyre-Buying-Guide.htm (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Winter-Tyre-Buying-Guide.htm)
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Well after experiencing Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip M+S tyres I can only say that they must be smoking something very strange if Goodyear think they've made anything remotely acceptable to place on any vehicle that's capable of more than 20mph in the rain.
Quite honestly they are absolutely lethal. Even on a DTi the rear is like a pendulum after every corner at moderate speeds. The used l'zen M+S tyres I have on the front are infinitely better in every respect. To put the Goodyears in perspective, I would sooner drive a car with Michelin energy tyres with 1.6mm of tread on them in any winter road conditions.
Very odd. They are very capable tyres. UG 2 or 8? New or part worn? Are you mixing tyres? As Cem says they are very highly rated. I have no experience of UG8 but the 2's on a previous BMW were fantastic and only bettered by some continental winter tyres.
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Well after experiencing Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip M+S tyres I can only say that they must be smoking something very strange if Goodyear think they've made anything remotely acceptable to place on any vehicle that's capable of more than 20mph in the rain.
Quite honestly they are absolutely lethal. Even on a DTi the rear is like a pendulum after every corner at moderate speeds. The used l'zen M+S tyres I have on the front are infinitely better in every respect. To put the Goodyears in perspective, I would sooner drive a car with Michelin energy tyres with 1.6mm of tread on them in any winter road conditions.
;D
so you say that test winning winter tires are crap on wet roads ? ???
did you check their dates ?
there is definitely something wrong..
or all those test makers are reporting b*llox and my experience too ;D
Strangely enough I didn't find it funny....
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa163/vxl_v6/HelloHedge.jpg)
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The only time I've broken traction with the UG8s (bear in mind they're only 195/65R15s, too) has been by playing silly buggers (i.e. full throttle in reverse, stamp on the brakes, slam it into D and resume full throttle by stamping on the go pedal .. I was having a bad day) - rain, dry, frosty they've had much, much more grip than either the summer tyres that were on it when I got it or the ones that replaced them.
I had to really provoke it to get it to slide on Saturday (40-45mph around a small roundabout where the exit immediately bends to the left sharply did it).
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VXL V6, this road is not wet or even muddy.. (or my eyes not telling me truth) ???
either you have some geometry problem or you forced the car to its limits..
so for your safety I recommend you check the geometry and tire surface..
because even the worst tires can manage more than 20 mph on that road.. :-\
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the only time I loose control of the miggy was last week on a 90 degrees turn with 20 mph and surface was complete ice!!!
tires were older ( 5 years old ) UG 500..
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Sorry to see this Andy. Hope your ok first of all?
...and that there's not too much damage. :'(
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Yeh, this was boxing day.
Car had slight dent in bonnet and cracked bumper, had a spare bumper in the correct colour in my shed off the V6 and bought a bonnet in the correct colour from a member on here, a few plastic clips from AndyC later and the car is good!
No damage otherwise to the car, chassis true and straight, no impacts or abrasions underneath. Fortunately the tree stump that stopped the car in the ditch (by which point there was little energy) was dead centre so the headlights escaped without even breaking the mountings!
Cem, road was wet and cold (photo doesn't do the surface justice as a camera phone), turned into this road off a main road, turned in many times before with the Kumho KU31's on without issue at higher speeds in wet and dry.
Car had new springs and shocks on the rear 2 years ago and new wishbones, droplinks, shock absorbers, springs and a track rod end less than 6 months ago on the front and was set up to the specs we all know so well on here.
I admit that the tyres on the rear were used and were bought with 7mm tread and no repairs. I immediatley noticed the difference on fitting them and wrongly assumed that after a few hundred miles the grip would radically improve. I'll check the manufacturing dates, be interesting to see if there was a particular batch that was recalled maybe? I have Marshall L'Zen's on the front and I find them vastly superior.
Incidently, like quite a few on here, I have driven rear wheel drive cars for a number of years, have practised driver training regularly on skid pans etc and am always willing to learn more, however, in the limited confines of a country lane when you've wrestled the car back one and a half times you start to run out of road! One thing I will say is that the DTi's do not have traction control, once you lose rear traction it's only down to your foot / brain interface which in this case was a fail! ;D
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Yeh, this was boxing day.
Car had slight dent in bonnet and cracked bumper, had a spare bumper in the correct colour in my shed off the V6 and bought a bonnet in the correct colour from a member on here, a few plastic clips from AndyC later and the car is good!
No damage otherwise to the car, chassis true and straight, no impacts or abrasions underneath. Fortunately the tree stump that stopped the car in the ditch (by which point there was little energy) was dead centre so the headlights escaped without even breaking the mountings!
Cem, road was wet and cold (photo doesn't do the surface justice as a camera phone), turned into this road off a main road, turned in many times before with the Kumho KU31's on without issue at higher speeds in wet and dry.
Car had new springs and shocks on the rear 2 years ago and new wishbones, droplinks, shock absorbers, springs and a track rod end less than 6 months ago on the front and was set up to the specs we all know so well on here.
I admit that the tyres on the rear were used and were bought with 7mm tread and no repairs. I immediatley noticed the difference on fitting them and wrongly assumed that after a few hundred miles the grip would radically improve. I'll check the manufacturing dates, be interesting to see if there was a particular batch that was recalled maybe? I have Marshall L'Zen's on the front and I find them vastly superior.
Incidently, like quite a few on here, I have driven rear wheel drive cars for a number of years, have practised driver training regularly on skid pans etc and am always willing to learn more, however, in the limited confines of a country lane when you've wrestled the car back one and a half times you start to run out of road! One thing I will say is that the DTi's do not have traction control, once you lose rear traction it's only down to your foot / brain interface which in this case was a fail! ;D
your ok.. your car is now ok.. thats good news..
thread depth alone dont hold the car on the road, if the compound is hardened no way to solve this other then some chemicals which is not suitable for daily use.. when you check the tires, you must be able to open the small teeths of tire by your finger at least 1.5-2 mm (winter tires).. if not, get rid of them imo..
another thing to keep in mind, in the past I changed 2 year old tires because seeing them skid on a specific part of my commute.. wrong , even my brand new tires skid there.. and when I control the road it was so oily that no tire have chance .. after I start to wash my tires periodically.. (and must admit mechanic shops are the worst places for tires)
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your ok.. your car is now ok.. thats good news..
thread depth alone dont hold the car on the road, if the compound is hardened no way to solve this other then some chemicals which is not suitable for daily use.. when you check the tires, you must be able to open the small teeths of tire by your finger at least 1.5-2 mm (winter tires).. if not, get rid of them imo..
another thing to keep in mind, in the past I changed 2 year old tires because seeing them skid on a specific part of my commute.. wrong , even my brand new tires skid there.. and when I control the road it was so oily that no tire have chance .. after I start to wash my tires periodically.. (and must admit mechanic shops are the worst places for tires)
Indeed it is... I thought for a minute i'd have to start buying petrol again! ;D
Will check what you have listed above :y
Tell me more about the chemicals....!
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and must add, winter times are a special period that you must be driving defensively .. I'm using 2 different cars daily which are very different in behaviour , steering, braking etc.. and I have been driving more than 32 years even those roads catch me unaware, from time to time.. sandy, muddy, oily or frosty zones are real traps and on heavy a rwd drive car with more torque it can beat you any time (like last week when I turned the corner and was nearly thrashing the cars waiting at the light on the other side of the road)
normally when I buy tires , I test them on an empty road to see their behaviour.. but sometimes very different road conditions can still surprise you.. :-\ yesterday in Istanbul more than 1100 accidents reported .. and snow was not even a surprise ???
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your ok.. your car is now ok.. thats good news..
thread depth alone dont hold the car on the road, if the compound is hardened no way to solve this other then some chemicals which is not suitable for daily use.. when you check the tires, you must be able to open the small teeths of tire by your finger at least 1.5-2 mm (winter tires).. if not, get rid of them imo..
another thing to keep in mind, in the past I changed 2 year old tires because seeing them skid on a specific part of my commute.. wrong , even my brand new tires skid there.. and when I control the road it was so oily that no tire have chance .. after I start to wash my tires periodically.. (and must admit mechanic shops are the worst places for tires)
Indeed it is... I thought for a minute i'd have to start buying petrol again! ;D
Will check what you have listed above :y
Tell me more about the chemicals....!
tire softeners.. but generally they are used for track days.. as the tire surface became too soft it finishes in just a single race.. for daily use not suitable imo.. as the tire will be unpredictable after..
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What I really don't like about these tyres are the way they handle an oversteer situation, with previous tyres it is possible to 'drive the car' out of the inevitable rear end wave, certainly I had no problems doing this with Kumho KU31's in last years snowy conditions, however, with the current tyres the rear cannot easily be driven out of an oversteer situation, thereby requiring more and more steering input ending up in the inevitable unrecoverable situation.
I think the fact the front has far superior traction does not help the situation, but if I swapped the fronts / rears then I fear a FWD with no tread would be a far safer option! :-X
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your ok.. your car is now ok.. thats good news..
thread depth alone dont hold the car on the road, if the compound is hardened no way to solve this other then some chemicals which is not suitable for daily use.. when you check the tires, you must be able to open the small teeths of tire by your finger at least 1.5-2 mm (winter tires).. if not, get rid of them imo..
another thing to keep in mind, in the past I changed 2 year old tires because seeing them skid on a specific part of my commute.. wrong , even my brand new tires skid there.. and when I control the road it was so oily that no tire have chance .. after I start to wash my tires periodically.. (and must admit mechanic shops are the worst places for tires)
Indeed it is... I thought for a minute i'd have to start buying petrol again! ;D
Will check what you have listed above :y
Tell me more about the chemicals....!
tire softeners.. but generally they are used for track days.. as the tire surface became too soft it finishes in just a single race.. for daily use not suitable imo.. as the tire will be unpredictable after..
I think I might introduce them to a product known as petrol and it's friend a naked flame!
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VXL V6. Glad it wasnt too bad.
Are you mixing tyres? Front and rear?
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Yes, Front's have Marshall L'zens and rears are Goodyear UG
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Goodyear ultra grip....? Some irony there.
As you say, check manufacture date. But I would think a winter tyre would need to last longer than a normal tyre, as they'll spend a portion of their life in storage. Hopefully covered out of sunlight. Check the rubber is still "rubbery" all the way round the tread perhaps, as if stored and not covered/exposed to sunlight half the tyre will go hard.
Mrs G had this on an old conti, it blistered all round one side making a bang bang bang noise. "wtf is that noise?" I asked. "what noise?" she replied. ;D
Anyway, it sounds like they'll be coming off and binned smartish....? Tyre suppliers will test tyres at the manufacturer if asked...? :-\
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Tyre suppliers will test tyres at the manufacturer if asked...? :-\
This is something I would like to do because my experiences of these tyres have put me off the brand completely but I know they do some very competent tyres in their summer ranges - I believe H21 rates them amoungst others.
When I actually get a spare 15 mins I will be fully examining them and reporting back on the points Cem has raised.