Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Merlindriver on 31 January 2012, 10:09:16
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52 plate V6 has always been a good starter but occasionally of late it's been a bit hesitant and only fired up after a couple of seconds cramking. Now it won't start! Was stranded last week and the RAC man said he thought it might be one of the connectors to either the offside coil pack (rusty water stained after the wiper spindle seal went and it siezed) or the Camshaft Sensor as having fiddled with those ir started.
It was fine yesterday but no joy today - motorbike to work at -0.5 C >:(
Anyway, symptoms are no sign of life as I crank it. Get a slight dip on speeedo and tacho as starter engages but then nothing shown on the tacho as it cranks. I have a basic code reader that I use to clear the persistent 0430 code but it doesn't show any stored codes at the moment. Would the pedal trick reveal anything the code reader doesn't, and is there a way to test the sensors or is it a case of change each in turn and if It's the 2nd at fault just accept the extra £60 for changing one that was fine?
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Sounds very much like a crankshaft sensor to me
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I would say that it's unlikely to be the cam sensor as they very rarely give trouble on a V6 and won't prevent the engine from starting.
Likewise, a coil pack connector problem would cause it to still fire on one bank. It's worth taking the scuttle panel off and sealing both the join in the panel above the offside coil pack and the hole where the wiper arm goes through with silicone sealant or similar, as if the plug wells fill with water they will cause a misfire and can destroy the coil pack. But that's not your problem at the moment, IMHO.
Crank sensor is another matter. They do often cause problems although normally the failure mode is that they start failing from hot and more often than not there's a 0335 code stored. I wouldn't rule it out, though.
Immobiliser can cause problems but you'd get a flashing engine management light when you crank the engine in that case.
It might be worth cranking it a few times with the accelerator to the floor. This enables a "flood clear" mode where it disables the fuel injectors. It's possible that, in taking a while to fire, it's flooded the engine.
Other things to check:
Check the fuel pump fuse in the fuel box under the steering column and all the large fusible links in the box above the battery positive terminal.
Get someone to listen in the boot for the fuel pump while cranking to see if it can be heard.
My money is on the crank sensor, though. The wiring to it is close to the back of that coil pack so it could well be that it was disturbed while that was being checked, and it's the wiring to the sensor that fails due to the heat where it is routed close to the oil lines and exhaust manifold.
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Thanks guys. I've already checked the fuses and the fuel pump and all is ok. I take it that with the crankshaft sensor being beside the oil filter it's only accessible from underneath - getting it onto the ramps will be the next challenge! :-\
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Thanks guys. I've already checked the fuses and the fuel pump and all is ok. I take it that with the crankshaft sensor being beside the oil filter it's only accessible from underneath - getting it onto the ramps will be the next challenge! :-\
Make sure you only buy a genuine one from a Vauxhall dealer.
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.... - getting it onto the ramps will be the next challenge! :-\
you need two short planks or similar to reduce the angle of attack on the ramps to prevent the bottom of the front bump hitting the top of the ramp.
eg
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k17/Tiff4327/S73F1379.jpg)
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......I take it that with the crankshaft sensor being beside the oil filter it's only accessible from underneath - getting it onto the ramps will be the next challenge! :-\
Jacking up passenger side and supporting it with stands is good enough to get access to the sensor bolt.
Regards
Alan
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.... - getting it onto the ramps will be the next challenge! :-\
you need two short planks or similar to reduce the angle of attack on the ramps to prevent the bottom of the front bump hitting the top of the ramp.
eg
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k17/Tiff4327/S73F1379.jpg)
The ramps have quite a shallow angle so no probs with bumper interference – just need enough space to tow it up with the Vectra.
......I take it that with the crankshaft sensor being beside the oil filter it's only accessible from underneath - getting it onto the ramps will be the next challenge! :-\
Jacking up passenger side and supporting it with stands is good enough to get access to the sensor bolt.
Regards
Alan
Where exactly is the sensor and the connector plug?
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Where exactly is the sensor and the connector plug?
the sensor is right next to the oil filter up in the passenger side wing. Plug ends up right at the back of the engine towards the passenger side
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90540.msg1155389#msg1155389 :y
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Maybe an idea to print this page out so you have it to hand :y
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90594.0
I think the P0430 fault points to either the Precat on it's way out or possibly CO2 sensor at fault, does it not? (anyone else confirm ?)
Just out of curiosity, did you actually do the pedal trick to see if it gave you any flash code via the dash before taking the sensor out? ???
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IME the cranksensor doesnt always throw up a fault code :-\
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Maybe an idea to print this page out so you have it to hand :y
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90594.0
I think the P0430 fault points to either the Precat on it's way out or possibly CO2 sensor at fault, does it not? (anyone else confirm ?)
Just out of curiosity, did you actually do the pedal trick to see if it gave you any flash code via the dash before taking the sensor out? ???
P0430 can safely be ignored. Most 3.2s raise this occasionally, IME, even if the emissions light hasn't come on (yet!).
That certainly won't stop it from starting, at any rate.
For starting, I'd say you need a working crank sensor, electrical feeds to the coil packs, injectors and fuel pump, fuel pressure, immobiliser happy and possibly the throttle body and throttle pedal position sensors reporting something sensible (although it'll probably limp-home with most faults there).
Pretty much everything else faulty might well make it run like a dog and generate fault codes, but it'll at least start.
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Did the pedal trick and no faults, or anything on the reader.
Got the old sensor out with a bit of levering but although the new one is identical it won't go in beyond the orange seal. Should it be an easy fit or do they need a bit of coaxing with a soft mallet? I did try to start it with it partially in but no joy - I guess the gap is too great.
Regarding the 0430 I have had it for ages. I will live with it as the car runs fine otherwise and I clear it periodically (and before the MOT ;))
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>:(
On the motorbike again this morning!
Tried again this morning to get the new sensor in but it is very very tight and I'm reluctant to force it in in case I either damage it or won't be able to get it out again. Any advice?
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Make sure the sensor is exactly the same,there are different types for the v6 and they may have supplied you with the wrong one.It wouldnt be the first time.
Having said that,I would have thought they would both fit into the block easily enough,just might not work once in there. :-\
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=96562.0
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They are a tight fit. Try cleaning the hole they push into and put a smear of oil around the O ring
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It is exactly the same - a Bosch one. I'll have another go at it when I get home this evening. I will win, just hope it cures the problem or it's back to square one.
I see what the problem is with the oringinal routeing, and the sensor wire doesn't have a lot of spare to reroute it far from the downpipes. I guess the best place to tiewrap it to is the nearside brake lines or the larger (aircon?) pipe on the inside of engine bay.
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It is exactly the same - a Bosch one. I'll have another go at it when I get home this evening. I will win, just hope it cures the problem or it's back to square one.
I see what the problem is with the oringinal routeing, and the sensor wire doesn't have a lot of spare to reroute it far from the downpipes. I guess the best place to tiewrap it to is the nearside brake lines or the larger (aircon?) pipe on the inside of engine bay.
Yep. It also helps to dig the other end of the wiring in the loom out and run it a little way up the cable tray that sits on the nearside head so the socket is closer to where the wiring runs up the inner wing.
EDIT: ..and if the wiring took the original routing, that's the original crank sensor, so it will certainly be due a change by now. If it isn't the problem this time it soon would have been. :y
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They are a tight fit. Try cleaning the hole they push into and put a smear of oil around the O ring
You aren't kidding!
I resorted to removing the orange seal just to ensure the sensor would actually fit in the hole and to see if it cured the fault. Bingo, it coughed a bit and started , a couple of flickers of the spanner and all was well. Put the old on eback in and no start so that confirmed the fault. I put the seal off the old sensor on the new one but even that was a very tight fit and in the end I had to resort to a couple of gentle taps with a rubber mallet. Next time I might use siloicone gasket sealant.
Anyway, job done and a nice warm trip to work at -5 deg this morning. Thanks for all the advice.
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result. :y
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Good stuff :y
Its typical that a breakdown occurs in the coldest of weather :(
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Good stuff :y
Its typical that a breakdown occurs in the coldest of weather :(
uurrmmm yeh.
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Having done my coil pack outside at -9 I can vouch for that :o
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Good stuff :y
Its typical that a breakdown occurs in the coldest of weather :(
I had to resort to the heated gloves on the motorbike :y
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I had to resort to the heated gloves on the motorbike :y
your spoilt ;)