Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Darth Loo-knee on 09 February 2012, 19:04:04
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I heard this advert on the radio and it mentioned the apr is 1737%... So I have Googled them thinking that has to be wrong they have missed the decimal point off... But its right ???
Now I aren't after a loan myself, but anyone who is really stuck and uses them surely are going to get their pants pulled down in interest :o
I have never heard of APR so high has anyone else?
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half of most other payday loans ;), most are 3400% apr
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half of most other payday loans ;), most are 3400% apr
Ouch.
Having said that, some of the women in their adverts aren't bad...
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I see one on tv the other day at 1737% must be same one
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Isn't it something to do with the fact that the loans are for a short period of time, but when the Annual PR is calculated it works out to be such a large amount?
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Not that I agree with payday loans in any way .. it is ripping of the people who can least afford it IMHO ... the APR's quoted are a bit of a nonsense.... as the folks using the service probably don't understand them
The law requires APR to be quoted for all loans, the idea being that a comparison on the cost of the loan can be made, however the bit people forget is that APR stands for ANNUAL percentage rate... ie you have the loan for a year and pay back over that time.
Payday loans are designed for much shorter periods, generally a week or a month, and are commonly sold with far simpler terms being quoted .... "borrow £100 for a week and it will only cost you £10 a week extra over a month .... so the gullible person thinks that is 10% interest ... the APR here is a wopping 5214% !!! (£100 loan, repayment after a month £140, compounded over 12 months .....)
The problem is that the folks who take out the loan often cannot payback on time, and the interest rates mount rapidly and uncontrollably. many folk think they should be banned, but they will only be replaced by something equablly as bad .. :(
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16905144 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16905144)
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Fools and their money..... :o :o :o
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For anyone stupid enough to think they are a valid way of getting out of debt, they deserve to loose their money.
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There speaks a man who has never experienced desperation.It may not be logical Tunnie,but desperate people do desperate things,and these companies prey on the desperate. ;)
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I think I posted something similar here recently, comments very much on the lines of other's :( :(
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There would be other ways, be declared bankrupt (which is not so bad these days) - Take out real long term, low APR loan. Never understand how/why people get into £30,000 or £60,000 of credit card debt. :-\
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May already be bankrupt,with no credit rating for normal avenues for borrowing and no money for essentials.Shouldnt happen to people with kids,as DSS should always see them alright afaik,but otherwise - sudden loss of income etc. can suddenly send finances into freefall. ;)
I agree on the point about huge credit card debts though.Imo,its trying to maintain a lifestyle that you no longer have the funds to support - head in sand attitude which ends in tears usually. :y
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May already be bankrupt,with no credit rating for normal avenues for borrowing and no money for essentials.Shouldnt happen to people with kids,as DSS should always see them alright afaik,but otherwise - sudden loss of income etc. can suddenly send finances into freefall. ;)
I agree on the point about huge credit card debts though.Imo,its trying to maintain a lifestyle that you no longer have the funds to support - head in sand attitude which ends in tears usually. :y
Was a thought of mine when buying a place, hence getting a flat that's in a commuter paradise and easily rented out.
I would move home if things became that desperate, but guess some people don't have that option :(
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May already be bankrupt,with no credit rating for normal avenues for borrowing and no money for essentials.Shouldnt happen to people with kids,as DSS should always see them alright afaik,but otherwise - sudden loss of income etc. can suddenly send finances into freefall. ;)
I agree on the point about huge credit card debts though.Imo,its trying to maintain a lifestyle that you no longer have the funds to support - head in sand attitude which ends in tears usually. :y
Sorry what was that you said, Albs? I can't hear you for all this damned sand in my lugoles.
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you have hit the nail on the head there albs if you have lost your jobs not enough money coming in any cash looks good,
Four years ago i was in that position i had a stroke at work went onto sick pay and let me say it does not pay the bills despite what people say,it took me nine months to get full help but sadly by that time i had already been made bankrupt, But when you have kids wanting school uniforms school trips etc and there is no help for that 1776% apr will look good,
Thankfully i didnt go down that road but i could have done.
Ok four years on i can look back and say yeas it could have been me.
:'( :'( :'(
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Tunnie, although I really do like you and see part of your point, I do think you come out with some shite.
Not all people have had shall we say an affluent up bringing, and have had to go to work when leaving school to help pay bills etc at home. Some have been married even got a couple of children at your age, which believe me is expensive.
I have a mate who has always had plenty of money, lovely house, always flash cars but not any children. I had this sort of chat with him about 14 years ago. Then around 5 years ago his Mrs gave birth to a gorgeous little girl. I have never heard another person complain on how much money children cost etc .....
When Doultons closed down around here which employed thousands of people there was some hard times alot of which still have not found other jobs.
Perhaps a little more thought about other peoples finacial difficulties especially at this time.
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Tunnie, although I really do like you and see part of your point, I do think you come out with some shite.
Not all people have had shall we say an affluent up bringing, and have had to go to work when leaving school to help pay bills etc at home. Some have been married even got a couple of children at your age, which believe me is expensive.
I have a mate who has always had plenty of money, lovely house, always flash cars but not any children. I had this sort of chat with him about 14 years ago. Then around 5 years ago his Mrs gave birth to a gorgeous little girl. I have never heard another person complain on how much money children cost etc .....
When Doultons closed down around here which employed thousands of people there was some hard times alot of which still have not found other jobs.
Perhaps a little more thought about other peoples finacial difficulties especially at this time.
Cannot agree more Daz, there's definitely a reason why misers are wealthy, some people don't realise how lucky they are to have gorgeous, healthy children :-\
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Yep, payday loans are expensive. But sometimes essential ::) I never thought I would ever even consider them but found myself looking into them in the last 10 days. I haven't had an income for 6 months now and have just started the business so things are tight :(
I did find one PD loan company that was charging something like 14000% APR :o :o :o
As long as you know you are able to repay on the agreed date then they can be a viable (but expensive) option ;)
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Tunnie, although I really do like you and see part of your point, I do think you come out with some shite.
Not all people have had shall we say an affluent up bringing, and have had to go to work when leaving school to help pay bills etc at home. Some have been married even got a couple of children at your age, which believe me is expensive.
I have a mate who has always had plenty of money, lovely house, always flash cars but not any children. I had this sort of chat with him about 14 years ago. Then around 5 years ago his Mrs gave birth to a gorgeous little girl. I have never heard another person complain on how much money children cost etc .....
When Doultons closed down around here which employed thousands of people there was some hard times alot of which still have not found other jobs.
Perhaps a little more thought about other peoples finacial difficulties especially at this time.
Which I did, within a week of leaving school I had a job at Tesco as a shelf stacker, during my time at college I worked at another Tesco in Bread section, followed by a corner shop, 6AM starts were fun! Even took an addition job at Currys one Christmas earning that little bit more, followed by a Marketing Exective job in my last college years.
So between end of school & end of college, I worked quite a few jobs - I saved my money, I did not pish it up a wall on drugs & booze ;)
I choose to save my money, save up for the things I want. After Uni (student loan provided me enough funds), saved every penny I could for 3 years to fund a flat deposit. I took additional work for 6 months working 16 days straight at times, to fund my little holidays.
I remain of my opinion that most people (still employed) with £60k debts are idiots & deserve it. Most I've ever had on a credit card is around £2k, following a trip to Japan. There is no reason why you should rack up that much debt on credit card(s)!
Never spend what you cannot afford. If you don't have the money to pay for it at the end of the month, don't get it!
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Tunnie, although I really do like you and see part of your point, I do think you come out with some shite.
Not all people have had shall we say an affluent up bringing, and have had to go to work when leaving school to help pay bills etc at home. Some have been married even got a couple of children at your age, which believe me is expensive.
I have a mate who has always had plenty of money, lovely house, always flash cars but not any children. I had this sort of chat with him about 14 years ago. Then around 5 years ago his Mrs gave birth to a gorgeous little girl. I have never heard another person complain on how much money children cost etc .....
When Doultons closed down around here which employed thousands of people there was some hard times alot of which still have not found other jobs.
Perhaps a little more thought about other peoples finacial difficulties especially at this time.
Nicely put :y
I regularly see families struggling financially because of a sudden and unexpected change in circumstances that was not their fault and often they could not see it coming..... :( :(
Many people have debt on credit cards, it has been encouraged by the banks for years......yes personal responsibility comes into it, but when times are hard...... :-\ :-\
And it would seem that it is Miss Vamps aim in life to see me in the bankruptcy courts.....Do not underestimate the cost of children...... ::) ::) ::)
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cash flow is king. it wold be nice to live by Tunnie's rules but it doesn't work out that way. If you have got things nicely balanced, paying off the mortgauge, and saving a bit toward a holiday, and suddenly, oops an accident, your missis get pregnant and her wages stop, then the car need a new cambelt, and halfrauds relieve you of £500, and then then extra work is required, "sorry mate the cam gaskets need doing as well, an extra £250", plus you can't use the car to get to work for an extra couple of days, so have to spend on taxi etc. And if you haven't got £xxx in the bank on the 17th of the month the building society will hit you with penalty charges, plus the bank will hit you for being overdrawn, etc, the suddenly a short term loan is very attractive. And something else comes up, the missus needs special hospital care and you have to take time off to look after her, and the loan doesn't get paid back, you are on the slippery slope and heading downwards.
This happens, all too often. I remember when interest rates were around 17%. What would folk buying their home today do if that happened ?.
We need stability, a bit of tunnie's mantra but we have to watch out for those who get caught out by accident.
Ken
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Thing is, there is a difference between a £500 car service going on the credit. Having a considerable 5 figure sum is another.
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
How long until they're that high again, I wonder ;) The 0.5% bubble has to burst eventually..
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
I wish I had the house and Mortgage I had when it was, as I would no longer have a Mortgage...... :D :D :D
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
How long until they're that high again, I wonder ;) The 0.5% bubble has to burst eventually..
I won't care in another 15 months ........... ::) ::) ::) ::) Mine will be paid by then! :y :y :y
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
Not much has changed, my mortgage is 55% of my monthly take home
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
How long until they're that high again, I wonder ;) The 0.5% bubble has to burst eventually..
Tis a worry..... :( I will ask Tunnie for a loan......... :D :D :D
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
How long until they're that high again, I wonder ;) The 0.5% bubble has to burst eventually..
I won't care in another 15 months ........... ::) ::) ::) ::) Mine will be paid by then! :y :y :y
Shut up you :P :P ;D ;D
Like Vamps, it's a bit of a worry for me - granted I'm stuck with 6.19% fixed rate for another three years, but heaven only knows what interest rates will be when that ends..
Best we start forming a line at Tunnie's door ;)
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
Not much has changed, my mortgage is 55% of my monthly take home
So what will you do when the rate rises? as it will....
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
How long until they're that high again, I wonder ;) The 0.5% bubble has to burst eventually..
I won't care in another 15 months ........... ::) ::) ::) ::) Mine will be paid by then! :y :y :y
Shut up you :P :P ;D ;D
Like Vamps, it's a bit of a worry for me - granted I'm stuck with 6.19% fixed rate for another three years, but heaven only knows what interest rates will be when that ends..
Best we start forming a line at Tunnie's door ;)
Same as me :(
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
Not much has changed, my mortgage is 55% of my monthly take home
So what will you do when the rate rises? as it will....
Fixed rate currently. At 6%, which is feking high as you can get 4% ones now fixed for 5 years.
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Same as me :(
If you're in a position to remortgage and get a good rate (equity in the house, capital you can pay off) then there are some great deals out there now around the 3% mark.. Sadly I've got penalties to pay if I exit before my fixed period ends that make it impossible.
A friend of mine moved at the same time (December 2009, so mortgage taken out around September) and got 4.19% fixed for 5 years - but then he did have a 30% deposit on his 300k house..
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I remember when interest rates were around 17%. .....
Mmm! :'( My mortgage was almost a fortnight's wages when they were!
Not much has changed, my mortgage is 55% of my monthly take home
So what will you do when the rate rises? as it will....
Fixed rate currently. At 6%, which is feking high as you can get 4% ones now fixed for 5 years.
Reminds me, I should be looking at re jigging mine..... :)
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I'm hoping the low rate will last another year or so, then keep watching as when the base rate starts rising the fixed deals will start falling ;) Currently on the lender's standard rate as it's lower than any deals out there ::) Need to be able to stay on it for at least a year though as currently have no Self-Employed accounts to show ::)
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Same as me :(
If you're in a position to remortgage and get a good rate (equity in the house, capital you can pay off) then there are some great deals out there now around the 3% mark.. Sadly I've got penalties to pay if I exit before my fixed period ends that make it impossible.
A friend of mine moved at the same time (December 2009, so mortgage taken out around September) and got 4.19% fixed for 5 years - but then he did have a 30% deposit on his 300k house..
Took me long enough to save £30k, so I was screwed with a 10% deposit (used £20k) - Decided fixed was best, as my commute was free, I know whats going in and out. So knew I could afford it.
I've managed to increase my earnings by 12% in last 18 months so things not so tight any more.
One thing I don't really get with paperwork, is it says if rates stay the same (ie 6%) - After the 3 year fixed rate expires, my monthly payment will fall by almost £300 :-\
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I was in the same boat as you Tunnie - I had about a 15% deposit when I moved here, largely equity from the flat, so 6.19% was the best I could get. Heck, at the time (the peak of the lender's paranoia) I only had a choice of about two lenders..
Another friend of mine got incredibly lucky through all this, though - he was on an interest only mortgage (only way he could afford a place after the split from his partner) that tracked at 0.25% above base rate with no lower cap..
Voila, 0.75% interest rate and suddenly his mortgage payment was pennies, allowing him to save up a fair amount and knock off most of the capital in a very short time.
Grr.
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Thing is, there is a difference between a £500 car service going on the credit. Having a considerable 5 figure sum is another.
Its the way things build up, one minute its £500, next month its £610, next its £750, next its.... an exponential growth. Before you know it you are many £K's in debt and no obvious way of getting out. Short term financial solutions to ease the pain are sought, but they don't, they just land you deeper in the sh1t.
Shelf stacking at Tesco, a nice easier earner esp if your living accomodation is effectively paid for. I had a period not long ago without any source of income, but plenty outgoings to service. I managed to find 'work' at a place that deals with the packing waste from Asda, going thro pallets of stuff and seperating it into plastic or cardboard. That's hard graft for 8hrs a day. Plus stacking the packing trays out of the washer, you could just keep with the output in stacking but when it came to changing over to another pallet.........
Plus they started getting overstaffed ( with Poles ), so I would drive out there, which cost me about £5 in fuel, only to be told I was not needed.....
Hope you are never in that situation.
Ken
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I was in the same boat as you Tunnie - I had about a 15% deposit when I moved here, largely equity from the flat, so 6.19% was the best I could get. Heck, at the time (the peak of the lender's paranoia) I only had a choice of about two lenders..
Another friend of mine got incredibly lucky through all this, though - he was on an interest only mortgage (only way he could afford a place after the split from his partner) that tracked at 0.25% above base rate with no lower cap..
Voila, 0.75% interest rate and suddenly his mortgage payment was pennies, allowing him to save up a fair amount and knock off most of the capital in a very short time.
Grr.
Lucky git! >:(
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I'm hoping the low rate will last another year or so, then keep watching as when the base rate starts rising the fixed deals will start falling ;) Currently on the lender's standard rate as it's lower than any deals out there ::) Need to be able to stay on it for at least a year though as currently have no Self-Employed accounts to show ::)
I think it will, but either way it will go up sharply in the near future, though the result, nationwide, of a big interest rate, no government will like to see as most recent borrowers have done so on a low rate but maximised there mortgage based on these, any hike and repossessions will be on every street in the country..........us older generation may cope, the younger generation will suffer big time........ :( :(
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I'm hoping the low rate will last another year or so, then keep watching as when the base rate starts rising the fixed deals will start falling ;) Currently on the lender's standard rate as it's lower than any deals out there ::) Need to be able to stay on it for at least a year though as currently have no Self-Employed accounts to show ::)
I think it will, but either way it will go up sharply in the near future, though the result, nationwide, of a big interest rate, no government will like to see as most recent borrowers have done so on a low rate but maximised there mortgage based on these, any hike and repossessions will be on every street in the country..........us older generation may cope, the younger generation will suffer big time........ :( :(
I think the effects of the general moral decline (the yob culture) and this financial episode (impending repossessions, adverse credit, people unable to ever get on the property ladder) will be felt for at least a couple of generations to come.
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I'm hoping the low rate will last another year or so, then keep watching as when the base rate starts rising the fixed deals will start falling ;) Currently on the lender's standard rate as it's lower than any deals out there ::) Need to be able to stay on it for at least a year though as currently have no Self-Employed accounts to show ::)
I think it will, but either way it will go up sharply in the near future, though the result, nationwide, of a big interest rate, no government will like to see as most recent borrowers have done so on a low rate but maximised there mortgage based on these, any hike and repossessions will be on every street in the country..........us older generation may cope, the younger generation will suffer big time........ :( :(
Not so sure they'll go up that sharply... I certainly think it will be slower than they came down :-\
Either way though, you're right. Lots of repossessions on the cards :'( Fortunately (?) we took ours out just as the rates were starting to drop so got a good tracker deal :y
Trouble is, I don't have the job and income I used to have so need the business to get established and give documented results (and income) before the rates go up too much ::)
Of course, we also need house prices to improve to better levels too for the situation to be better ::)
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I'm hoping the low rate will last another year or so, then keep watching as when the base rate starts rising the fixed deals will start falling ;) Currently on the lender's standard rate as it's lower than any deals out there ::) Need to be able to stay on it for at least a year though as currently have no Self-Employed accounts to show ::)
I think it will, but either way it will go up sharply in the near future, though the result, nationwide, of a big interest rate, no government will like to see as most recent borrowers have done so on a low rate but maximised there mortgage based on these, any hike and repossessions will be on every street in the country..........us older generation may cope, the younger generation will suffer big time........ :( :(
Not so sure they'll go up that sharply... I certainly think it will be slower than they came down :-\
Either way though, you're right. Lots of repossessions on the cards :'( Fortunately (?) we took ours out just as the rates were starting to drop so got a good tracker deal :y
Trouble is, I don't have the job and income I used to have so need the business to get established and give documented results (and income) before the rates go up too much ::)
Of course, we also need house prices to improve to better levels too for the situation to be better ::)
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Agreed, our house shot up over the last 12 years we have been in it, we also increased the original mortgage to do some work on it, fortunately although the prices have dropped, we owe less than we could sell the house for today...... :)
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:-X :-X :-X
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I cant understand why rising house prices are considered to be a good thing,unless your an estate agent (or currently caught in an equity trap). Who gains.Not the homeowner,unless they sell up and go and live in a tent.Prices were pushed up by the economic boom coupled to mass immigration,which caused a housing shortage.Its only that remaining housing shortage which has prevented a sudden and very sharp drop in prices imo.
It might not matter too much one way or the other to a lot of people until their kids get to the age where they want to set up their own homes. Then the consequences may well become more obvious.
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PayDay loans are wrong on many fronts and should be banned, as the vulnerable (and by that i mean people who may fall into circumstances they CANNOT prevent) will be seduced by them. After traditional borrowing methods have closed the doors, bank, cards (to embarrassed to ask family or friends).
But the comments earlier about 30-60K in debt and how or why? When bankruptcy is so easy to file for I find harsh! A lot of people out there responsible for other peoples livelihoods will keep a business afloat (rightly or wrongly) on personal credit cards for as long as they can, in the hope that it will all be OK, many sole traders didn't go down the Ltd and put all on the line. :-X
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PayDay loans are wrong on many fronts and should be banned, as the vulnerable (and by that i mean people who may fall into circumstances they CANNOT prevent) will be seduced by them. After traditional borrowing methods have closed the doors, bank, cards (to embarrassed to ask family or friends).
But the comments earlier about 30-60K in debt and how or why? When bankruptcy is so easy to file for I find harsh! A lot of people out there responsible for other peoples livelihoods will keep a business afloat (rightly or wrongly) on personal credit cards for as long as they can, in the hope that it will all be OK, many sole traders didn't go down the Ltd and put all on the line. :-X
bloody big plus 1 :y
£160k worth after buisness partner done a runner we owed tax and finance companies oh yes and company credit cards but i paid all my workers and suppliers :y :y could have gone tits up but choose to fight it and still am 8 years later.if i was a limited company i could have just walked away.in some respects should have just gone bankrupt. Debt is a horrible thing we all have it at some point but to class people as idiots that get in to problems is well a little bit silly :-X :-X
and before the same people probably say well you chose to set up a company hell yes and i take full responsibilty for it not bankrupt yet but if i did my wife would have a much better life
something else about debt the people that are payers are the ones that are perssued..once you make any offer or payment they have you. The inland revenue especially
personal debt is the same thing seen lots of people in trouble and helped them rather than take the simple class them as an idiot approach....There are of course people that are just out to abuse any system available
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Paul good on you for tuffing it out and seeing it through, I hope you are now getting your just rewards now? :y
Unfortunately, when you are an entrepreneur and take calculated risks, it only goes right some of the time but not all of the time. Many start ups are funded by credit cards as it is virtually impossible to get funding from banks. To be a successful entrepreneur you have to be optimistic, so believe what you are doing will work. Many entrepreneurs including myself, would have done things differently with the benefit of hindsight and their are things like the current recession outside of your control.
As a serial entrepreneur, you take on the chin and the losses when things go wrong, but when the next idea or company is successful and you make reasonable profits, it can't efficiently, replenish your losses as 50% goes in tax, not to mention all of the intrusive, choking red tape. Before anybody says you can carry losses forward, that is correct but only for 3 years and most business start ups need a longer cycle than that to make good profits to make up the losses and it has to be in the same area as the previous business.
Unfortunately this socialist state country is no longer geared up for enterprise which is why we have dropped from 2nd best place in the world to do business to 37th and still falling. It is also party why the rich to poor ratio is expanding as it is very difficult to start a business and end up reasonably rich in this country. Capitalism is inclusive anybody can join in and it can and does make poor people wealthy.
The risk v reward ratio, to me is no longer viable in the UK which is why I'm going abroad. I'm been planning and implementing things for sometime and I can't wait to be off to a low tax country, so I get the benefits from my enterprise and hard work. I don't mind doing 100 hour weeks when in business start up mode, but how can I justify my family suffering while I'm giving 50 hours of that to the bunch of breakwits, with their big toughs and gluttony, where they stuff themselves to the gills on their MP perks and expenses, while the screw run the country. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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respect to that man well said sir :y :y
only thing with me is wont be doing it all over again 160k was a huge loss to take and in honesty one i did not see coming me ex partners wife was our accountant but still my responsibility which is why he is still alive. Anyone that sets up a business has my respect especially nowadays its a lot harder and of course the reason for the topic anyone in debt has my sympathy not ridicule
i think is outragious that companies can charge the sort of interest they do and as previously pointed out they will do nothing really to help with the debt only make matters worse. Desperate times call for desperate measures and at times you dont think of everything just getting some money in your account to pay out again :-[
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just on a much brighter note dont regret a thing every cloud has a silver lining just over 4 years ago met wifey love at first site and now every days a good day :y :y if circumstances had been any different i may not have ever met her
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PayDay loans are wrong on many fronts and should be banned, as the vulnerable (and by that i mean people who may fall into circumstances they CANNOT prevent) will be seduced by them. After traditional borrowing methods have closed the doors, bank, cards (to embarrassed to ask family or friends).
But the comments earlier about 30-60K in debt and how or why? When bankruptcy is so easy to file for I find harsh! A lot of people out there responsible for other peoples livelihoods will keep a business afloat (rightly or wrongly) on personal credit cards for as long as they can, in the hope that it will all be OK, many sole traders didn't go down the Ltd and put all on the line. :-X
Fair comment.The remarks about credit card debt - I think Tunnie probably had in mind people who just rack up huge debt by continuously spending money they dont have on cards,rather than adapt a lower standard of living,and therefore living within their means.Thats how it came across to me anyway,which was why I agreed.Obviously there are exceptions and the type of circumstances you and Paul describe prove the rule. :y
Having said that. Credit card companies will allow people in their teens to have cards and run up large debts,before they know their arse from their elbow,and imo that just shouldnt be allowed.They take out the card,and then the company keep informing them that their limit has been raised,again and again. >:(
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I cant understand why rising house prices are considered to be a good thing,unless your an estate agent (or currently caught in an equity trap). Who gains.Not the homeowner,unless they sell up and go and live in a tent.
Investors, that's who. Many of whom are home owners - some are even considering the property they are living in as an investment (i.e. a retirement fund)..
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Tunnie, although I really do like you and see part of your point, I do think you come out with some shite.
Not all people have had shall we say an affluent up bringing, and have had to go to work when leaving school to help pay bills etc at home. Some have been married even got a couple of children at your age, which believe me is expensive.
I have a mate who has always had plenty of money, lovely house, always flash cars but not any children. I had this sort of chat with him about 14 years ago. Then around 5 years ago his Mrs gave birth to a gorgeous little girl. I have never heard another person complain on how much money children cost etc .....
When Doultons closed down around here which employed thousands of people there was some hard times alot of which still have not found other jobs.
Perhaps a little more thought about other peoples finacial difficulties especially at this time.
Which I did, within a week of leaving school I had a job at Tesco as a shelf stacker, during my time at college I worked at another Tesco in Bread section, followed by a corner shop, 6AM starts were fun! Even took an addition job at Currys one Christmas earning that little bit more, followed by a Marketing Exective job in my last college years.
So between end of school & end of college, I worked quite a few jobs - I saved my money, I did not pish it up a wall on drugs & booze ;)
I choose to save my money, save up for the things I want. After Uni (student loan provided me enough funds), saved every penny I could for 3 years to fund a flat deposit. I took additional work for 6 months working 16 days straight at times, to fund my little holidays.
I remain of my opinion that most people (still employed) with £60k debts are idiots & deserve it. Most I've ever had on a credit card is around £2k, following a trip to Japan. There is no reason why you should rack up that much debt on credit card(s)!
Never spend what you cannot afford. If you don't have the money to pay for it at the end of the month, don't get it!
Whilst I admire your financial management - I've said before that I think you have your head screwed on the right way when it comes to managing money - you have had a fairly priviledged upbringing compared to many. Thats not meant to sound bad, or be a criticism. Fair play to your parents for being able to provide that.
But you must understand that, for some people, there are genuine reasons, beyond stupidity, why they find themselves in such a situation.
Lets take a scenario; suppose you were doing 12hr shifts in a factory, and had since you were 16. Probably minimum wage, and physical enough that you couldn't do part time jobs on the side. Married with a young kid, renting a small flat, as no way can you afford to save up for a deposit. Then that job goes. Can't afford to pay the rent, let alone eat. Yet you must provide your family with a roof. No qualifications to get another job, even if they were available... ...waiting list for social housing is too long... ...then next month seems like an awful long way away, when having somewhere to sleep tonight is your primary concern.
When I left school at 18, I was lucky enough to get a job, initially temporary, at British Telecom, in its day, considered job for life. My folks moved to Cambridgeshire to look after my grandparents. I made the decision to stay in Aylesbury, as if I could get a permenent job at British Telecom, I would have long term security, at a time when we were in high unemployement, higher than now. I think my pay was around £50 a week, and the room I rented in a house was £35 a week. £15 to live on doesn't save much of a deposit, I couldn't afford a car either. Fortunately, I never had to take any loans during that period - not that anyone would give one, as I had no security, and the Bank of England rate was at 15% then. And I considered myself one of the lucky ones, as although money was tight (very!!) and times were hard, they weren't that hard on the scale of things. From the time I left home in 1988 until the year Lady Di died (1996?), I never went abroad, the most I (latterly, we) could afford was a tent in the UK. As said, I don't feel particularly hard done by, or think I had a hard start to life after I left home - there are many who were far worse off ;)
I do agree, though, some people will never be able to manage money. I know people who hard sufficient income for a comfortable life, but wanted to live a step above, so took out credit cards to pay off credit cards which were taken to pay off credit cards etc. Needless to say, when the banks tightened there own belts, they were left in the brown stuff. And its purely their own fault. I'm old fashioned, nothing goes on the credit card unless I know it can be paid off at the end of the month, although I know I'm luckier than many to have that luxury.
If we don't have these payday loans out in the open, we'll probably get back to the door-to-door loans from not-so-nice people, whereby losing everything means more than just losing possesions...
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All very well said, TB :y
Personally speaking there was a time when I had close to £25k on credit cards - right around the time I came back to full time employment from (attempting) to work for myself in a highly competitive market and with all the sales skills of a lump of coal. For two years all I came across were people wanting something for nothing and, if I was lucky, those who wanted to 'trade' skills. Neither of which pays the mortgage..
Now, had I been sensible, I would have sold the flat and moved back in with my parents but, frankly, I'd rather have sliced off a testicle than move back home at 25.. so I stuck it out, supporting myself on credit cards (back when banks would give them to anyone!) and the occasional loan from the Bank of Mum & Dad when the mortgage was about to bounce and there was nothing left in credit anywhere.
I'm still paying that off, now, though it's about a third of it's original size. I could have paid it off much sooner, too, had I not chosen to move house and buy nice things - if I'd just put all my bonus money & shares into it.
Then again, had I sat on the shares I got at $30ea and sold at their peak of $140ea I'd have had enough money (after tax) to pay for my current house outright. Hindsight is a wonderful thing..
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I cant understand why rising house prices are considered to be a good thing,unless your an estate agent (or currently caught in an equity trap). Who gains.Not the homeowner,unless they sell up and go and live in a tent.
Investors, that's who. Many of whom are home owners - some are even considering the property they are living in as an investment (i.e. a retirement fund)..
May not be the wisest thing though,unless its a part of an investment portfolio. Its potentially risky if it is the only basket which all the eggs are in.There have been reports of a trend among migrants to save hard here,then go home and buy a very nice house which they couldnt ordinarily have afforded.
If that trend grows and large numbers of migrants return to their home countries property prices in this country will fall off a cliff. The shortage of supply for the current demand is one of only two things preventing it at the moment. The other thing is low interest rates,but they cant stay this low forever. They will rise again as soon as there is an opportunity for them to do so.
Ive often heard it said that your home should be just that,and not viewed as an investment. Makes sense to me tbh.
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Well said TB :y
Tunnie, you may have had jobs all the way through but how much were you paying in rent/housekeeping? You have been very lucky ;)
I don't feel hard done by, but I have had tough times. I was all set up and would probably have paid off my mortgage by now if I hadn't gotten divorced ;) I lost everything :o I came away from that marriage with 2 suitcases of clothes, a sofa, TV, PS2, van, motorbike, my tools and about £4k. I then had to restart my life from scratch... Somewhere to live, a job, everything ;)
Things were just getting pretty comfortable about October last year, then I've been off sick from the end of November... Fortunately I was on full pay until June/early July, but when that stopped I had nothing coming in :o Still had all the existing expenses though ;) Any money I had aside has long since gone and things are tight. The credit cards had to take a beating so that we could afford to pay the mortgage and household expenses, otherwise we'd be staring down the barrel of repossession by now ;)
What I'm trying to say is that not everything is as simple as black and white, the way you view it. There are circumstances beyond your control ;)
Thankfully things seem to be improving now (after such a quiet January) and all should (hopefully) be back on an even keel within a couple of months, but not everyone gets into debt through carelessness ;)
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May not be the wisest thing though,unless its a part of an investment portfolio. Its potentially risky if it is the only basket which all the eggs are in.There have been reports of a trend among migrants to save hard here,then go home and buy a very nice house which they couldnt ordinarily have afforded.
If that trend grows and large numbers of migrants return to their home countries property prices in this country will fall off a cliff. The shortage of supply for the current demand is one of only two things preventing it at the moment. The other thing is low interest rates,but they cant stay this low forever. They will rise again as soon as there is an opportunity for them to do so.
I'm sure the numbers of migrants returning home will continue to rise, especially as standards of living in home countries rises - but (last I checked, anyway) the number entering the country is also rising, so we're not seeing a mass exodus..
..yet, anyway :)
(He says, looking around the office - one of only three English people along with an American, Canadian, Hungarian, Italian and a Czech - on a full day there'd be a Pole and a Spaniard, as well.. ;D)
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The issue I have is that these pay day loans are a right royal rip off.
Given the interest rate above of 1737%, that equates to around 4.76% per day!.
So if you borrow 100 quid for one week you pay back 132.18!.....so 32+ quid interest in a WEEK!.
If you consider the same with a credit card you would pay 38p (based on an APR of 35%).
For me, a credit union application would be more sensible as they are often around the 25% PA interest rates.
These scum survive only because there are people who know no better and because they advertise....maybe they should be banned from advertising if thier calculated APR is above 50% or x times the BoE base rate......
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Tunnie, although I really do like you and see part of your point, I do think you come out with some shite.
Not all people have had shall we say an affluent up bringing, and have had to go to work when leaving school to help pay bills etc at home. Some have been married even got a couple of children at your age, which believe me is expensive.
I have a mate who has always had plenty of money, lovely house, always flash cars but not any children. I had this sort of chat with him about 14 years ago. Then around 5 years ago his Mrs gave birth to a gorgeous little girl. I have never heard another person complain on how much money children cost etc .....
When Doultons closed down around here which employed thousands of people there was some hard times alot of which still have not found other jobs.
Perhaps a little more thought about other peoples finacial difficulties especially at this time.
Well said Daz
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These scum survive only because there are people who know no better and because they advertise....maybe they should be banned from advertising if thier calculated APR is above 50% or x times the BoE base rate......
Indeed. There must be some level where it ceases to be just a very poor product that relies on heavy advertising and daft customers, and becomes a scam.
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The issue I have is that these pay day loans are a right royal rip off.
Given the interest rate above of 1737%, that equates to around 4.76% per day!.
So if you borrow 100 quid for one week you pay back 132.18!.....so 32+ quid interest in a WEEK!.
If you consider the same with a credit card you would pay 38p (based on an APR of 35%).
For me, a credit union application would be more sensible as they are often around the 25% PA interest rates.
These scum survive only because there are people who know no better and because they advertise....maybe they should be banned from advertising if thier calculated APR is above 50% or x times the BoE base rate......
I hear you, but some people - the ones these are targeted at on daytime telly - may have no options for credit cards, and credit unions don't exist everywhere. Besides, both credit cards and credit unions only (now) do responsible (ish) lending. If someone has no income, they ain't gonna pay off the loan.
With such a ridiculous interest rate, as long as a small proportion pay back the loans, thats a viable business model.
Banning them would only work in the favour ot loan sharks.
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RTFP :y
No mention of baning them, simply a case of banning the advertising, thus hence making the op have to seek the loan rather than having it rammed down thier throat and thus potentialy they may consider more options....
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These scum survive only because there are people who know no better and because they advertise....maybe they should be banned from advertising if thier calculated APR is above 50% or x times the BoE base rate......
Indeed. There must be some level where it ceases to be just a very poor product that relies on heavy advertising and daft customers, and becomes a scam.
quite agree but i dont always think its becuase people know no better more desperation
i pay my van insurance by direct debit think the apr is something like 40% i could pay it in a lump but the way work is at the moment in the building trade i have to take it on the chin the only consolation is it is tax deductable thank you very much.
but totally agree there should be some sort of caped rate
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mind you though you have all got it easy
in my day we worked t 26 hour day down t pit used to go home farther used to beat us kill us and t stamp on our graves...luxury ;D ;D who was that man
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RTFP :y
No mention of baning them, simply a case of banning the advertising, thus hence making the op have to seek the loan rather than having it rammed down thier throat and thus potentialy they may consider more options....
I did, and would forward the suggestion that banning advertising to a large portion of the target customer is effectively banning the product :-X
Not wishing to be stereotypical in any way, but I have been in an awful lot of houses in a previous job, and reckon I have a reasonable handle on most parts of society ::)
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RTFP
Oh, and treat me gentle, not entirely sure all the neural pathways have re-established after my bang on the bonce ;D
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RTFP
Oh, and treat me gentle, not entirely sure all the neural pathways have re-established after my bang on the bonce ;D
I think thats more down to the '40+' tag ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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RTFP
Oh, and treat me gentle, not entirely sure all the neural pathways have re-established after my bang on the bonce ;D
I think thats more down to the '40+' tag ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
Grrrrrr >:(
Now I look just like your avatar ;D
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RTFP
Oh, and treat me gentle, not entirely sure all the neural pathways have re-established after my bang on the bonce ;D
I think thats more down to the '40+' tag ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
Hasn't been speeding again has he?
Oh, hang on... >:(
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RTFP :y
No mention of baning them, simply a case of banning the advertising, thus hence making the op have to seek the loan rather than having it rammed down thier throat and thus potentialy they may consider more options....
I did, and would forward the suggestion that banning advertising to a large portion of the target customer is effectively banning the product :-X
Not wishing to be stereotypical in any way, but I have been in an awful lot of houses in a previous job, and reckon I have a reasonable handle on most parts of society ::)
And if you were to visit the homes that do not have credit cards they will still have biggest of TV's Laptops, surround sound mostly funded by equally worrying high interest, high advertising, weekly payment stores............oh and they will have at least one dog, the signs of which will be clearly visible............the kids may not have been fed mind ;) ;) :-X :-X
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RTFP :y
No mention of baning them, simply a case of banning the advertising, thus hence making the op have to seek the loan rather than having it rammed down thier throat and thus potentialy they may consider more options....
I did, and would forward the suggestion that banning advertising to a large portion of the target customer is effectively banning the product :-X
Not wishing to be stereotypical in any way, but I have been in an awful lot of houses in a previous job, and reckon I have a reasonable handle on most parts of society ::)
And if you were to visit the homes that do not have credit cards they will still have biggest of TV's Laptops, surround sound mostly funded by equally worrying high interest, high advertising, weekly payment stores............oh and they will have at least one dog, the signs of which will be clearly visible............the kids may not have been fed mind ;) ;) :-X :-X
You mean the one with the greasy, unwashed, uncut scruffy hair, that is fat from eating too much with a big fat hairy ass, that's enough about his wife, what about his canine friend. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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RTFP :y
No mention of baning them, simply a case of banning the advertising, thus hence making the op have to seek the loan rather than having it rammed down thier throat and thus potentialy they may consider more options....
I did, and would forward the suggestion that banning advertising to a large portion of the target customer is effectively banning the product :-X
Not wishing to be stereotypical in any way, but I have been in an awful lot of houses in a previous job, and reckon I have a reasonable handle on most parts of society ::)
And if you were to visit the homes that do not have credit cards they will still have biggest of TV's Laptops, surround sound mostly funded by equally worrying high interest, high advertising, weekly payment stores............oh and they will have at least one dog, the signs of which will be clearly visible............the kids may not have been fed mind ;) ;) :-X :-X
Indeed, but as the 50" Plasma is only £5 a week for 1040 weeks, its is a deal not to be missed, as they need something to watch Sky HD on.
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Got to keep our subscription numbers up! :D
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I remember, back in early nineties, fitting an extension for a lady who had just moved in to a brand new estate, and wanted a phone in the 3rd bedroom (box room, think she was using as an office). Lovely lady, really pleasant, curteous, friendly, the type you'd love to have as a neighbour. She was one of the first to move in down her road. I remember telling her that, from my dealings with people who had already moved in that I had been to, it seemed a nice area.
Anyways, about 3 weeks later, I had to go to her neighbour, as their phone wasn't working. Walked in, what a rather mess. Some of the internal doors were missing panels, the dog had scratched a lot of the paintwork on the skirting, and damaged the plasterboard walls, and there was a man shaped hole between the kitchen and living room where somebody had gone through it. The woman in there, right slag, was effing and blinding at the screaming kid, chain smoking, and trying to tear me off a strip about the phone not working because they'd ripped the socket off the wall trying to move it. Stung her with a bill, but doubt she ever paid.
The nice neighbour came out when I was in the van filling out the charge sheets, told me they were Housing Association tenents (apparently, to get planning permission, the developers had to 'give' housing association 1 in 10 houses :o), and had moved in 2 days earlier. 2 days to wreck a brand new house.
Disgraceful.
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Disgraceful, yes .. but the bit about the man shaped hole made me laugh out loud.
They're building a whole load of "shared ownership" houses just down the road from me - I look forward to the crime figures going through the roof ::)
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Not that I agree with payday loans in any way .. it is ripping of the people who can least afford it IMHO ... the APR's quoted are a bit of a nonsense.... as the folks using the service probably don't understand them
The law requires APR to be quoted for all loans, the idea being that a comparison on the cost of the loan can be made, however the bit people forget is that APR stands for ANNUAL percentage rate... ie you have the loan for a year and pay back over that time.
Payday loans are designed for much shorter periods, generally a week or a month, and are commonly sold with far simpler terms being quoted .... "borrow £100 for a week and it will only cost you £10 a week extra over a month .... so the gullible person thinks that is 10% interest ... the APR here is a wopping 5214% !!! (£100 loan, repayment after a month £140, compounded over 12 months .....)
The problem is that the folks who take out the loan often cannot payback on time, and the interest rates mount rapidly and uncontrollably. many folk think they should be banned, but they will only be replaced by something equablly as bad .. :(
Agreed... :y
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Equally as bad, at the very least, back, if they ever really went away, will come the illegal money lenders with their heavy handed methods of recovery..... :( :( :-X :-X