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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: The Red Baron on 27 February 2012, 17:05:03

Title: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 27 February 2012, 17:05:03
Here goes, 3.0l auto on lpg, ive had some major coolant leaks, on closer investigation i found the coolant pipes in a right mess to the evaporator, T pieces all over the place with leaks on all joints due to different pipe sizes to the T pieces, so ive re-piped as ness(corectly). had the plenumn off & inlet manifold but not disconected any electrical conections on the lpg side.
went off to the midlands meet yesterday & all ran fine, gas showing all its lights, on the return, was giving it some boot & it died a death, complete to a stand. restarted on petrol...off down the road, switch to gas & died a death again but all lights showing a good tank of gas. ummm runs fine on petrol, should switch back to petrol with gas MT automatic but looks like its not. any ideas????>>>James.....help. ???
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: adey2 on 27 February 2012, 17:08:36
what system is on it buddy
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 27 February 2012, 17:15:09
what system is on it buddy
Yep, what system John?

As an aside... re you sure you've got gas in the tank? Ignore the lights... They are highly inaccurate at the best of times ;)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 27 February 2012, 17:15:15
what system is on it buddy
romano
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 27 February 2012, 17:17:00
what system is on it buddy
Yep, what system John?

As an aside... re you sure you've got gas in the tank? Ignore the lights... They are highly inaccurate at the best of times ;)
point being it should switch automatic from gas when it runs out back to petrol paul, it did before. :-\
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 27 February 2012, 17:19:09
what system is on it buddy
Yep, what system John?

As an aside... re you sure you've got gas in the tank? Ignore the lights... They are highly inaccurate at the best of times ;)
point being it should switch automatic from gas when it runs out back to petrol paul, it did. :-\
So re-trace what you've done ;) If the lights have changed their behaviour then it's altogether possible that the settings have been lost from the controller and therefore the auto switch-back settings are now wrong ;)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 27 February 2012, 17:20:14
Should add, that's not what I'm suggesting as the cause, just that it's possible ;)

My money is that you've disturbed something on your tidy up and it needs re-seating ;)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: albitz on 27 February 2012, 17:30:09
I would start with the simple things first.I had similar happen,and found the inline fuse had blown. Didnt actually know there was one until LD told me about it. ::)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 27 February 2012, 17:39:46
I would start with the simple things first.I had similar happen,and found the inline fuse had blown. Didnt actually know there was one until LD told me about it. ::)
I didn't know about it when I had problems until I went to change the ECU :-[ :-[ Although mine hadn't blown, just snapped ::) ::)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 27 February 2012, 17:59:49
ok thanks paul, i will go over it again to check. :)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 February 2012, 20:15:44
Hi mate,

Will it run on LPG at all?

If not, I think I know what the problem is..

Sorry for delay, only just seen this.

Agree coolant plumbing is somewhat of a mess.... I redid some of the gas pipes which went hard and brittle, but didn't have the pipework / time necessary to sort the plumbing as well...

Cheers,
James
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 February 2012, 20:16:27
Further to the last, is the LPG light flashing slowly or quickly, when it won't run on gas?
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 27 February 2012, 20:54:21
Further to the last, is the LPG light flashing slowly or quickly, when it won't run on gas?
hi james, the orange light flashes but not quick, all the green lights are on at the same time. as soon as it cuts over to gas the engine dies.
at the moment i dont know if it has gas or not without going to fill it up. i suspect not but doesnt explain why it cuts out like it does.
thanks.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: symes on 27 February 2012, 21:04:17
this is easy-on the bottom of your evaporator is a solenoid either its knackered or you broke a wire. Did same 2 weeks ago-solenoid was knackered . :y 
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 27 February 2012, 21:18:07
this is easy-on the bottom of your evaporator is a solenoid either its knackered or you broke a wire. Did same 2 weeks ago-solenoid was knackered . :y
Not necessarily ;) But a possibility
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 27 February 2012, 21:23:43
this is easy-on the bottom of your evaporator is a solenoid either its knackered or you broke a wire. Did same 2 weeks ago-solenoid was knackered . :y
Not necessarily ;) But a possibility
i will have a look in the morning as the car is up my garage.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: symes on 27 February 2012, 21:24:00
on mine i put direct current to solenoid and it wasnt opening valve got new solenoid fitted it and went straight away onto gas.trouble is its in a hot enviroment by side of engine was thinking of making heat shield
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 February 2012, 21:29:41
Further to the last, is the LPG light flashing slowly or quickly, when it won't run on gas?
hi james, the orange light flashes but not quick, all the green lights are on at the same time. as soon as it cuts over to gas the engine dies.
at the moment i dont know if it has gas or not without going to fill it up. i suspect not but doesnt explain why it cuts out like it does.
thanks.

I think I know the answer to this one. Config issue in the Romano, causing it to believe it has no gas when there's actually quite a bit left in the tank...

I always intended to sort it for Dave, but my lead broke  :-[

Now fixed, so more than happy to put right for you....  :y
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 27 February 2012, 21:35:01
Further to the last, is the LPG light flashing slowly or quickly, when it won't run on gas?
hi james, the orange light flashes but not quick, all the green lights are on at the same time. as soon as it cuts over to gas the engine dies.
at the moment i dont know if it has gas or not without going to fill it up. i suspect not but doesnt explain why it cuts out like it does.
thanks.

I think I know the answer to this one. Config issue in the Romano, causing it to believe it has no gas when there's actually quite a bit left in the tank...

I always intended to sort it for Dave, but my lead broke  :-[

Now fixed, so more than happy to put right for you....  :y

Isn't that what I suggested may be the case here :-X ::) ;)

If the lights have changed their behaviour then it's altogether possible that the settings have been lost from the controller and therefore the auto switch-back settings are now wrong ;)

But check what you've worked near first ;)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 February 2012, 21:40:04
Further to the last, is the LPG light flashing slowly or quickly, when it won't run on gas?
hi james, the orange light flashes but not quick, all the green lights are on at the same time. as soon as it cuts over to gas the engine dies.
at the moment i dont know if it has gas or not without going to fill it up. i suspect not but doesnt explain why it cuts out like it does.
thanks.

I think I know the answer to this one. Config issue in the Romano, causing it to believe it has no gas when there's actually quite a bit left in the tank...

I always intended to sort it for Dave, but my lead broke  :-[

Now fixed, so more than happy to put right for you....  :y

Isn't that what I suggested may be the case here :-X ::) ;)

If the lights have changed their behaviour then it's altogether possible that the settings have been lost from the controller and therefore the auto switch-back settings are now wrong ;)

But check what you've worked near first ;)

Didn't fully read the thread / your post, LD  :-[

Just recall what the issue is, because I what I checked out for Dave...
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 27 February 2012, 21:43:46
ok, im going to check over what ive done, connections etc & i will report back tommoz.
thanks for the input so far.  :y
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 27 February 2012, 21:43:53
Didn't fully read the thread / your post, LD  :-[

Just recall what the issue is, because I what I checked out for Dave...
Was a wind up really James ;) ;) I've not seen the car but it was just a thought ;) ;)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 28 February 2012, 15:56:24
right, been & checked all the connections i possibly disturbed, cant find any faults tbh. start her on petrol...manualy switch to gas, wont switch over until i rev the engine, switches over(i can hear the injectors ticking) then instantly cuts out.
bum. :(
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 February 2012, 16:03:10
Go pop some LPG in mate :y
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: adey2 on 28 February 2012, 16:04:36
is there a gauge on the tank to show gas content, had this problem with a vectra and it was showing full but empty of gas
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 28 February 2012, 16:33:52
Go pop some LPG in mate :y
yes i will, at least it will give more of a clue.
adey,
No gauge on the tank. as all the lights are on green you would think it has gas, will know better when i go & fill up.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 28 February 2012, 16:40:40
Go pop some LPG in mate :y
yes i will, at least it will give more of a clue.
adey,
No gauge on the tank. as all the lights are on green you would think it has gas, will know better when i go & fill up.
Still maintain what I said before... It sounds like the ECU settings are corrupt so it thinks there's LPG in the tank when it's empty ;) Put some in and at least rule it out. With that done (if it still plays up) we can then start the process of fault finding the blockage ;)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 28 February 2012, 16:45:31
Go pop some LPG in mate :y
yes i will, at least it will give more of a clue.
adey,
No gauge on the tank. as all the lights are on green you would think it has gas, will know better when i go & fill up.
Still maintain what I said before... It sounds like the ECU settings are corrupt so it thinks there's LPG in the tank when it's empty ;) Put some in and at least rule it out. With that done (if it still plays up) we can then start the process of fault finding the blockage ;)

thats right paul, we will go from there.  :y
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: symes on 28 February 2012, 17:12:36
on saturday mine kept spluttering and dying on me so squirted carb cleaner into main feed pipe to injectors that sorted it - maybe you got same problem.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 28 February 2012, 18:44:49
on saturday mine kept spluttering and dying on me so squirted carb cleaner into main feed pipe to injectors that sorted it - maybe you got same problem.
Sounds like yours needs servicing and the heavy ends draining from the reducer :-\
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: symes on 28 February 2012, 18:54:47
yep went this morning got it back earlier trouble having to work-no time to do it myself,fitted new(smaller)evaporator for me gained a bit of space now.  :y
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 04 March 2012, 22:09:45
ok, update. been to gas her up today, should have taken a good 50ltrs, managed 44.
starts & runs fine on gas, if i switch manual back to petrol engine cuts straight out but then re-starts fine on petrol.
ideas on a postcard please.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 March 2012, 22:13:17
ok, update. been to gas her up today, should have taken a good 50ltrs, managed 44.
starts & runs fine on gas, if i switch manual back to petrol engine cuts straight out but then re-starts fine on petrol.
ideas on a postcard please.
So now runs perfectly on LPG, which suggests it was out of gas.

As for cutting out switching back to petrol... Is that at idle or with the RPM at running speeds? Still sounds like it may be a software glitch to me :-\ :-\
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 04 March 2012, 22:17:26
ok, update. been to gas her up today, should have taken a good 50ltrs, managed 44.
starts & runs fine on gas, if i switch manual back to petrol engine cuts straight out but then re-starts fine on petrol.
ideas on a postcard please.
So now runs perfectly on LPG, which suggests it was out of gas.

As for cutting out switching back to petrol... Is that at idle or with the RPM at running speeds? Still sounds like it may be a software glitch to me :-\ :-\
when i flick the switch myself.
last week though was at speed, completely died but again started fine on petrol. seems like the auto switchback is at fault to me paul.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 March 2012, 22:19:32
when i flick the switch myself.
last week though was at speed, completely died but again started fine on petrol. seems like the auto switchback is at fault to me paul.

Like I said, sounds like a software glitch ;) Try raising the revs and then switching back, just out of curiosity

To clarify, it probably has a switch over time option (i.e. how quickly it switches) which is set too long
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 04 March 2012, 22:20:51
when i flick the switch myself.
last week though was at speed, completely died but again started fine on petrol. seems like the auto switchback is at fault to me paul.

Like I said, sounds like a software glitch ;) Try raising the revs and then switching back, just out of curiosity
then it seems ok.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 March 2012, 22:22:38
when i flick the switch myself.
last week though was at speed, completely died but again started fine on petrol. seems like the auto switchback is at fault to me paul.

Like I said, sounds like a software glitch ;) Try raising the revs and then switching back, just out of curiosity
then it seems ok.

See my edited post then ;) ;)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 04 March 2012, 22:26:51
looks like i will have to get james to have a look at then paul.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 March 2012, 22:31:28
It is a guess (slightly educated I s'pose ::)) that it is a software glitch
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 04 March 2012, 22:34:02
It is a guess (slightly educated I s'pose ::)) that it is a software glitch
it looks that way doesnt it. will have to get it plugged in i spose.
one question, its coming up for mot soon, will this switchover problem be of concern for the tester?
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 March 2012, 22:38:36
It is a guess (slightly educated I s'pose ::)) that it is a software glitch
it looks that way doesnt it. will have to get it plugged in i spose.
one question, its coming up for mot soon, will this switchover problem be of concern for the tester?
Fill up with LPG on the way to the test centre and present it running on LPG ;)

I assume it switches to LPG fine? If not, leave it running when you get there (just in time for your test ;)) and get the emissions tested first ;) Make sure you make the tester aware that you are presenting it for the test running on LPG ;)

He shouldn't be interested in the switch back to petrol anyway (unless you run out of LPG) ;)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 04 March 2012, 22:43:24
yes switches fine TO lpg, just switching back to petrol it dies.
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 March 2012, 22:52:30
yes switches fine TO lpg, just switching back to petrol it dies.
No problem then... Deliver it with a full tank and the switch left in "Auto" so it switches to LPG automatically ;) :y
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 04 March 2012, 22:56:19
yes switches fine TO lpg, just switching back to petrol it dies.
No problem then... Deliver it with a full tank and the switch left in "Auto" so it switches to LPG automatically ;) :y
wont they want to test the immisions on petrol though?
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Entwood on 04 March 2012, 23:03:52
yes switches fine TO lpg, just switching back to petrol it dies.
No problem then... Deliver it with a full tank and the switch left in "Auto" so it switches to LPG automatically ;) :y
wont they want to test the immisions on petrol though?

Nope .. It is tested on the fuel as presented.... :) well it is if registered as dual fuel, I actually don't know what happens if it is NOT registered as dual fuel mind ... as mine is !!!!

Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 March 2012, 23:05:35
yes switches fine TO lpg, just switching back to petrol it dies.
No problem then... Deliver it with a full tank and the switch left in "Auto" so it switches to LPG automatically ;) :y
wont they want to test the immisions on petrol though?
Why? They test on the fuel it is presented on, as per the tester's handbook, which you want to be LPG as it's only a Basic Emissions Test ;) ;) They might offer to try it on petrol if it fails the BET, but I doubt it ;) ;)

If they want to test it on both fuels then ask them (politely) to point out where in the handbook it states that they must test it on both fuels ;) (Although that may well make them look more closely at the rest of the motor :-X ::))
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: The Red Baron on 04 March 2012, 23:16:30
yes switches fine TO lpg, just switching back to petrol it dies.
No problem then... Deliver it with a full tank and the switch left in "Auto" so it switches to LPG automatically ;) :y
wont they want to test the immisions on petrol though?

Nope .. It is tested on the fuel as presented.... :) well it is if registered as dual fuel, I actually don't know what happens if it is NOT registered as dual fuel mind ... as mine is !!!!

ok, thanks for that. :)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 March 2012, 23:26:39
yes switches fine TO lpg, just switching back to petrol it dies.
No problem then... Deliver it with a full tank and the switch left in "Auto" so it switches to LPG automatically ;) :y
wont they want to test the immisions on petrol though?

Nope .. It is tested on the fuel as presented.... :) well it is if registered as dual fuel, I actually don't know what happens if it is NOT registered as dual fuel mind ... as mine is !!!!

ok, thanks for that. :)

My saloon (which wasn't registered) was always tested on LPG, but the systems have changed yet again since my last MOT on that ::)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: albitz on 04 March 2012, 23:29:19
Mines registered as duel fuel with the DVLA but it isnt on the register,so In dont know where that might leave me. :-\
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: Entwood on 04 March 2012, 23:34:35
Mines registered as duel fuel with the DVLA but it isnt on the register,so In dont know where that might leave me. :-\

That's the important bit .... when mine goes in for test they KNOW, from the DVLA computer that it is dual fuel. Mike just asks me as he takes the keys .. "still running gas" .. gets a yes and it's tested as an LPG vehicle......

:)
Title: Re: 3.0l lpg cutting out on gas.
Post by: albitz on 04 March 2012, 23:53:30
Cheers Nige. :y