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1

Omega General Help / Throttle Body Replacement

« on: 16 October 2007, 21:55:42 »

Sorry for this long post, but this has been on heck of a saga.

Finally got my ECM for my '99 Catera, installed it (myself), and had it programmed at the dealership out of town.  It was $45.00 after I briefed them how much time it should take for them to program it.  I had insider information courtesy of my newly purchased 2 vol. service manuals.

While driving off the lot, I started experiencing a 'creeping takeoff' which felt like the tranny. It was confirmed with the little ! & Check Engine lights on display. It felt like trying to take off in neutral while in drive (darn automatic trannys). This was also the same symptom I had before replacing the tranny 21 months ago. I turned around and had the mechanic take a look at it. He couldn't find anything outside of the tranny fluid being about a quart low.

Anyhow, the end result is that in order to drive it, I have to shift the tranny like it's a manual.

Question #1:  Programming an ECM shouldn't have an affect on the tranny, would it?!?!?!?!? Also, it's hard to believe that after 21 months (and $2,500.00 later), a tranny would go out like that!!!!!

TWO DAYS LATER.....

I went back to the dealership that intstalled the tranny.  They called me later in the day and said that it wasn't the tranny (?!?!?!?!), but the MAF and throttle body needed to be replaced. They quoted me the following:

PART PART COST LABOR (TIME) TOTAL

Mass Flow Air Sensor $221.69 (part)  $109.50 (1.5 hrs labor); Total $331.19 +tax
Throttle Body $369.64 (part),  $182.50 (2.5 hrs labor); Total $552.14 +tax
Throttel Body Connector $18.95 (part)

GRAND TOTAL -------> $902.28 +tax

I almost laughed in their face!!!! While they were giving me these quotes, my wandered to the Catera forum where I had read someone who had to replace their MAF, and it only took 20 minutes. One and a half hours?!?!??!!!?? What a joke!!!! I was looking in the service manual, and am quite confident that I can install it myself. But at $221.69, I instinctively know that's way too high.

I don't refute that these parts may have to be replaced in that my Catera that has 110,400 miles on it. Plus, I haven't replaced them since I had the car (2001), so I'm sure they need to be swapped out. But not for $900 + !!!!!! That's crazy!!!

ONE DAY LATER..........

Tarried over to AutoZone this afternoon, and had the vehicle scanned.  The following codes came up in order of precedence:

P1890 ------> Tranny
P1280 ------> Fuel Air Metering
P0100 ------> Mass Air Flow Sensor (this code showed up twice)
P1700 ------> Tranny
P1120 ------> Fuel Air Metering
P1220 ------> Fuel Air Metering
P0450 ------> EVAP Emission
P1275 ------> Fuel Air Metering

I went ahead and purchased some throttle body/intake cleaner and blew it out. I followed up on the recommended maintenance post and park the car on an incline (my driveway) facing downward before spraying up in their to avoid seepage going back into the intake.

In the interim, I'm looking at replacing the MAF. GM Direct has it for $115.28 After that, I'll have AutoZone run another scan on it before taking up to the dealership hoping that they will honor the 3 yr/100,000 mi warranty on the tranny. Does any of these other codes like the Fuel Air Metering and EVAP Emission ring a bell? Or, could they be tied to a faulty MAF?

ONE WEEK LATER...........

Received the MAF sensor and the cabin air filter. Replaced both. Timed myself on replacing the MAF and it took about 20-30 minutes to do mainly because I had a little resistance from one of the clamps (a far cry from the 1.5 hours the dealership would've charged me in labor alone).

Anyhow, went back up to AutoZone and had them scan me out. Good news...elminated 5 of the initial 9 error codes. My goal is to get results that only reflect the transmission in order to get the dealership honor their warranty w/o making reference to other problems. Bad news..........still have 4 error codes left. Good news.........2 of the 4 are related to the tranny. Bad news............the other 2 codes consists of the following:

P0450 -- EVAP Emission sensor
P1280 -- Fuel Air Meter
P1700 -- Tranny
P1890 -- Tranny

Can anyone shed light on the EVAP Emission sensor and Fuel Air Meter issues? I would like to resolves these myself before my next showdown with the dealership.

TWO WEEKS LATER.....................................

Okay, I've checked, double checked, and went to about 4 different AutoZone shops and got scanned.  I'm still getting the tranny codes, BUT I'm still getting....

P0450 -- EVAP Emission sensor
P1280 -- Fuel Air Meter

Per suggestions from thE Catera forum, and between trips to the different AutoZone shops, I reseated the fuel cap, and refitted the Mass Air Flow sensor.  Still getting the same readings.  The 'stealership' were still saying (according to their scan) that the throttle body is the culprit.  They wouldn't so much as deal with the tranny codes until they "replaced" the throttle body.

So..........I scouted around until I found a new throttle body for $192.00.  A far cry from the #369.00 + the dealership wanted.  It came with the connector as well (the dealership wanted to sell me that as a separate item).
Even got the gaskets for a little under $6.00 a piece.

Found a place that works strictly on foreign cars and briefed them on my situation.  They said they'd be more than happy to put it on for me (since I discovered in my recent move to this state, I don't have all of my tools), but they said that I would have to get the car reprogrammed again!!!  Oh yeah, they projected a 2 hour job which calculates to be $140.00 in labor.

Does this sound right in having to reprogram the ECM?  Or, should I just go ahead and acquire the tools to do this job myself which I was intended to do in the first place?  Cheers.

2

Omega General Help / Re: ECM Replacement

« on: 30 March 2007, 13:51:13 »

.....
The ECM (brain box) has gone out on my '99 Cat.......  

Why do you say that your ECM/ECU is dead? Dealers here often condem perfectly servicable 'brains' .

Even though the dealer diagnosed it as such, I checked with a couple of buddies who have their own garages (out of state from my location), and they asked me whether or not the keyless remote was working and a couple of other inquiries.  They were both in agreement (I spoke to each separately) that the 'brain box' may be dead.

Now to some late breaking developments.................................................I found out that my ECM is the same exact ECM that is in the Saturn L300 sedan.  It also has a 3.0V6 power plant in it.  I confirmed the OEM part #, and the ECM is one in the same as mine.  Had a nice long conversation with a tech who works for a company that specializes in ECM R&R.  When I explained to him my situation, he told me that if I can find a vehicle that had the SAME OEM part # for an ECM, I can indeed have it reflashed for my vehicle.  During the reflash, the firmware with my vehicle info will indeed overwrite the firmware currently on it.  He was a bit thrown off when I gave him the part # to my ECM and it kept popping up with the Saturn vehicle.

So, and a little more of hunting and pecking around, I found a breaker yard about 800km from here that has a ECM off a Saturn L300 for $50 USD.  After verifying the OEM part # with them, I'm having it shipped.  All I need to do now once I get it is have the dealership reflash it for me.  I'm anticipating getting into a pi$$ing contest with the dealership of the reflash price.  Checking around the country at other dealerships, a reflash usually takes no more than 30 minutes with a price of $75.00USD on average.  A far cry from $262.00USD this dealship quoted me.

I also confirmed and found out from a GM Parts guy that GM has a tendency of installing the same parts in different vehicles.

In the end, I plan to go ahead and have this ECM that's coming installed, keep my old one and send it off at a later date for R&R.  That way I'll have a spare ready to go if this issue pops up again.  We shall see once I get the part.

3

Omega General Help / ECM Replacement

« on: 28 March 2007, 20:42:18 »

Sorry for the long read folks, but this has been one weird (and interesting) journey on this issue.

The ECM (brain box) has gone out on my '99 Cat. The dealship wants 400.00USD (+) for a new one and another $300.00USD (+) to program and install. All in all, I'm looking at $740.00USD and some change.

I've been checking around and found one out on ebay for $100.00USD!!! Albeit used, but in good condition after speaking with the vendor.

However, my dilemma is that the part #'s this vendor lists does not match up with the ECM part # in my Cat. After some indepth research, I found that my ECM is from Saturn !?!?!?!?!?! Did some more digging, and was briefed by one parts dealer/mechanic that ECMs for '97 - '99 Cats are pretty much the same, and I shouldn't have a problem since Saturn is GM made (or visa versa, I forget).

I know if I go the route of the $100.00 ECM deal, I'll probably get jacked on the programming by the dealership.

Anyone out there, please advise. I need to make a decision post haste. Thx.

The journey continues..............................

After posting this on the Cadillac forum, I received a response that the ECU and emissions was under warranty for 8 years.  After checking on the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), it's 8 years or 80,000 miles.  My '99 Catera has 110,000 miles.  Oh well, it would have been a nice try.

While delving further into this issue, and talking with several parts departments at dealerships, here's what I found..........................................

The part # on my ECM is 9153242. Okay, while chasing this number down, I found out it's an ECM made by Saturn. The only mystery is which Saturn vehicle, I have the foggiest (neither does anyone else). Anyhow, I priced them retail & wholesale and got a range of $450.78 to $337.72 USD, depending on who you go with. Plus, I still have to get the software installed and programmed for my Cat (from what I was told, $262.00 USD).

The Ebayer with the $100.00 ECM referred to part #'s 9119538, 9152342, & 90566574. I contacted the ebayer, and they have Hollander indexing their part #s. So, it doesn't necessarily mean that their ECM would indeed fit my '99 Cat.

Spoke with a parts guy at a dealership I used to do business with in Minnesota, and after some querying, we both learned that my part #
9153242 superceded the part # 9119538. He surmised that when GM switch parts vendors, they have a propensity of changing part #s. Never heard of this, but I wouldn't put it past GM to do such a thing.

Back to the ebayer's listing. I noticed that my part # 9153242 and their listed part # 9152342 have the middle numbers switched (see bolded numbers).

This is becoming a real kick in the head. But, when strapped for cash (just paid the mortgage), this research is making me more educated (and more confident of working on this Cat myself).

4

Omega General Help / Body Kit for 1999 Catera

« on: 22 March 2007, 18:17:22 »

Although I'm getting a little more comfortable with knowing the similarities between the Omega B and Caera, for peace of mind and added confidence (and to control the salivating excitement), would this body kit fit on my '99 Catera?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-BODY-KIT-BRAND-NEW-SUPERB-LOOK_W0QQitemZ200091810302QQcategoryZ72207QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

5

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 22 March 2007, 13:04:08 »

Yes, its a 3.0V6 like the Omega B.  With the Cateras here in the US, the sensor is right next to the oil filter housing.  The torx bolt is right smack next to the base of the oil filter housing.  You have to slightly twist the sensor to get it into the block.  Trying to pull it straight out and inserting straight in isn't an option because of the tight quarters.  Nonetheless, she's running fine now.

6

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 20 March 2007, 21:26:28 »

Apparently it has.  No hiccups, stalls, or no starts.

I spoke with the mechanic at length and he mentioned that since end that goes into the block is so close to the oil filter housing unit that it doesn't take much to 'crack' it if it's not inserted correctly.

I remember it being a tough fit, but I didn't bang up against anything, especially with the oil filter case.

7

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 19 March 2007, 22:38:03 »

Okay, it ended up being another crankshaft position sensor replacement.  Since I had purchased the previous from them, it was still under warranty.  However, before I could tell the dealership that I would pick it up and put one it on myself, they had already installed it.  Hence, I ended up paying for labor.  At least it wasn't something worse.

Thanks for all the feedback.  It is much appreciated!!!!  

8

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 18 March 2007, 00:11:45 »

Yes.  The route is opposite (left hand side).  I fed it behind the engine toward the firewall then downward.  Had to maneuver between the left exhaust and top of the oil pan to plug into the engine block.  Fairly simple, but I won't know the true verdict from the dealership until Monday.

They initially assumed that I bought an aftermarket sensor, when I told them that I got it from their parts department, the attitude changed a bit.

9

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 16 March 2007, 23:14:52 »

I ran it from the top to bottom.  I had both ends covered because of the tight quarters of threading it through.  The car was cooled down quite a bit, so no concern with hot (or warm) exhaust pipes.

In spite of the precautions I took, is this thing that sensitive?

10

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 16 March 2007, 22:18:05 »

Okay, I just received a call from the dealership (they would call near the close of business) and told me that according to their scanner, it all points back to the crankshaft position sensor.  They "recommended" that a CPS by GM be installed.

I had to inform the guy in a "by the way" fashion that the CPS I purchased was from their Parts Dept.  Therefore, it's a bonafide GM product.  The service guy says, "Oh.  Well, I pass this information along to the mechanic."  I said, "Sure.  I also have my receipt as well."

The saga continues.......I'll keep you posted.  Cheers.

11

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 16 March 2007, 12:48:50 »

Thanks guys.....

It's at the dealership now, so I'll have to see what their verdict is going to be.  Let you know when I find out.  Cheers.

12

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 15 March 2007, 21:47:23 »

Yes, I have tried both ways.  It seems that after it sits for a while (a minimum of 45 minutes), it cranks right up.  Today, my daughter was on her way to work, and while she was heading up a slight incline in the road, it started stalling.  She pulled over to the shoulder of the road before it died.

As I stated in my previous post, I drove up to the petrol station, and upon attempting to leave, it wouldn't turn over.  I press and released the accelerator on one attempt, did not depress the accelerator at all on another attempt, and pressed the accelerator all the way on another attempt.  It was about an hour later of leaving the key in and sitting there (well, I did push it manually from the petrol pump into a parking spot) before turning the key, slightly depressing the accelerator, and it turned right over (with some protest as if it was going to cut off).

13

Omega General Help / Re: Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 15 March 2007, 20:25:12 »

Theolodian:

Thanks.  

During my installation of the CPS, I never disconnected the battery (was that a bad thing?).  :-/

So with what you're saying, it sounds like the dealership may end up getting over on me with this "Idle Relearning"?  

14

Omega General Help / Keep Alive Memory Error

« on: 15 March 2007, 17:27:05 »

Hope not to make this too long, if I get long winded, please forgive me as I'm new to this forum.  Here goes.......

I was researching an issue on the Catera forum where my '99 Catera would crank, but not start. A previous post suggested that the crankshaft position sensor (CSP) needed to be replaced.

So, I went to the dealership and purchased a CPS for $45.00 (+ tax). It was pretty simple to install with the exception of dealing with tight spaces.

Once installed (at 1130 hrs), it cranked up immediately and the Check Engine light went out. Everything was fine until 1600 hrs. I was preparing to leave the petrol station when the car wouldn't start!!!! I had to sit there for about 45 minutes before I could get it started again.

Once it started, I headed straight home. And, once again, the Check Engine light was on. I took a quick look underneath to ensure I had the CPS on both ends plugged in and secured.  I wondered if the CPS I had purchased may have been bad initially.

Here's the latest update on my '99 Cat issue............................

I was able to get it started and ran it up to AutoZone for a scan. It came up with a P0603 troubleshooting error.  Further delving revealed that this code was referring to a "Keep Alive Memory" error.

The guy at AutoZone said that I would have to take it to the dealership to have it reset. So, I put my emotions in check and went to the dealership with error code in hand.

When I arrived at the Service Department, I briefed them the symptoms (crank but won't start), what I did (installed a new CPS), and the results (runs for a little bit, then quits). When I queried them on the error code, you would have thought that I had shined a bright spot light on a herd of deer grazing in the darkness. One of the service guys recovered just enough to do a quick check and tell me that either I need to have a "Idle Relearn" done on the car (cost -- about $73.00) or possibly the Electronic Control Module (ECM) needs to be replaced (cost -- about $300.00 to $400.00).

Quite naturally I went for the first option to perform a idle relearn. Hopefully, that's all that is needed.  I will know more once they call me when it's done.

BTW: If in case the ECM has to be replaced, is there somewhere I can get it at reasonable cost?  And, are there any instructions on installing it myself?

Thanks in advance. Best regards.

15

Omega General Help / Re: Front Bumper Cover

« on: 20 March 2007, 18:10:55 »

I'm having a little trouble posting pics I took this morning.  However, I was successful with posting on the Catera forum.  Please check the following link.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-catera-cimarron-forum/102153-front-bumper-cover.html