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[cleggy]

I agree with the sentiments expressed, the overiding factor for me is that racism etc is always a one way steet. If you are white, straight and British then you can't say this or that incase you upset some minority. The problem is that it is a two way street if a person belonging to a minority group offends us (Verbal abuse in their own language or burning our Flag) then nothing happens. This has to stop, all nationalities or of ethnic origin can be racist yet nothing is done about it.

I often wonder if the problems are  more acute in the pockets of high immigration, the old northern mill towns, Luton etc to cause more resentment. If you live somewhere that doesn't have a problem with Muslims then it isn't a problem and you don't see things the same way.

Two giants bats came into our local CoOp the other week and all they got were stares and giggles, but the thing that upset the customers, who all said the same thing was that if I came shopping in a crash helmet, or covered in a scarf then you wouldn't serve me until I removed the head covering then why do you serve these people? It is one rule for one and one for another which upsets people. This is England and as already been stated " When In Rome"

All nationalities, religions and creeds are welcome, just adopt our lanuage, our cutoms and obey our laws. If you don't like the way we do things then don't try to change us, or offend us just feak off somewhere that is more to your liking. We must remember alot of immigants  over the last century have made a great contribution to this country and adopted our way of life. We have given sanctury to many peoples and have been rewarded in return by their hard work and gratitude.

I am afraid that today this does not seem to be the case and unless things change then there will be massive problems even down to taking to the streets in the areas mentioned above, if our politicians carry on ignoring these issues with their ineptitute to face and tackle the problem head on.

[Rods2]

Appeasement:

"An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last."

Islam:

"What the horn is to the rhinoceros, what the sting is to the wasp, the Mohammadan faith is to the Arabs."

Taxation:

"We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

"There is no such thing as a good tax."

Regulation:

"If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law."

Socialism:

"Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the abject worship of the State."

"Government of the duds, by the duds, and for the duds."

"No socialist system can be established without a political police."

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy."

"'All men are created equal' says the American Declaration of Independence. 'All men shall be kept equal' say the Socialists."

"Some see private enterprise as a predatory animal to be shot, others look on it as a cow to be milked but a few see it as a sturdy horse pulling a wagon."

"If you destroy a free market, you create a black market."

"The vice of capitalism is that it stands for the unequal sharing of blessings; whereas the virtue of socialism is that it stands for the equal sharing of misery."

All quotations from the great man himself Winston Churchill.  As he is turning over in his grave, I wonder what he would make of the EU and today's Britain? 

Where is his modern equal in our hour of need?

[Varche]

Where is his modern equal in our hour of need?

Well he isn't his equal by a long long way but I think the best we have got curiously is Hollande!! He might just steer us out of the current situation where the banks are sorted but the rest of us have to pay and pay and pay for years to come.

[Rods2]

If it comes down to relying on a socialist French surrender monkey politician to save the UK, then all I can say is God help us. 

Once he is reminded on the French economic and bank's position and their support from Germany by Frau Merkel, he will be going yap, yap, begging for any scraps he can get from the German economic table. 

Rumour has it that when Sarkozy was asked during the election why he had so many finance meeting with Merkel the reply was:

A: The air miles, the state dinners and Frau Merkel's low tops and big..... economic power, ou la, la. (DD Jealous  )

Q: What sort of things did you discuss?

A: I set my eyes and thoughts on the Big...... Economic questions of the day. (DD More Jealous  )

Q: Can you be more specific on what you discussed?

A: Yes, economical thing-a-me-bobs.

Q: Can you give us a example?

A: You know, the sort of things discussed at economical meetings.

Q: What format did the meetings normally follow?

A: Well, I would present my special advisers paper, Frau Merkel would consider it and then decide what we will do, I agree, so she leans forward, ou, la, la, and gives me the promised cream biscuit with my coffee for being a good boy. She then tells her advisers to write a joint press release to keep the markets happy. At this point I am confused, why do we need to keep the French markets happy, why are they not happy selling their fruit, vegetables and fromarge?

Q: In Paris where the streets a filthy, why do you have to dodge the dogs poo when going round a market?

A: Parisian markets are the best in the world, the sights, the BO smells and the squelching of the dogs merde, then ou, la, la, buying the French fromarge.

Q: And what is your favourite cheese?

A: During the summer, I always buy the one with the least flies on it.

 

[D]

I suppose there's a bit of envy attached to this, but a couple of days ago, I was watching a re-run of an episode of 'Escape To The Country'. This time it was an Asian couple. The people looking to move state at the start of the programme how much they have to spend. Normally it's about 3 - 500 grand. Not this pair, they had a MILLION pounds to spend without having to sell their existing property. And bloody hell, the woman wasn't half snooty, she dissed just about every property she was shown.
Made me wonder what sort of life they would be leading if they were back in their native country.

Pretty reasonable I would think. If someone has the talent/skill to make that much of money, then it doesnt matter what country or religion they belong to. They will do well in life. You may also be surprised to find that the lifestyle led by the rich in various developing countries are very often more flamboyant that they could enjoy in this country. Last time I went on a trip to India, there were more Bentleys/Rolls/Ferrari's than you could see in W1.

If I had a million pounds to spend, then I would be very selective too. Nothing wrong with that. Just because you are well off does not mean you need to accept the first thing that a TV show offers to you. Being rich does not take away your right to choose or to say no!

The above post is just one of pure envy along with the fact that the person who was better off wasnt one who looked like you. Would you make the same comment if that was a white woman from ROI?

Dont confuse race/colour/religion with despicable acts. They are despicable despite what colour skin the perpetator has. And punishment should not be mitigated based on the colour of skin or religion. Therein lies the problem with this country as it seems more interested in appearing politically correct than looking after itself and its interests.

If I get into my right wing mode, then I could go on and on. For eg: why does the UK offer asylum whilst the middle east doesnt? Should we continue to offer asylum seekers a place to live in?

[Dishevelled Den]

I suppose there's a bit of envy attached to this, but a couple of days ago, I was watching a re-run of an episode of 'Escape To The Country'. This time it was an Asian couple. The people looking to move state at the start of the programme how much they have to spend. Normally it's about 3 - 500 grand. Not this pair, they had a MILLION pounds to spend without having to sell their existing property. And bloody hell, the woman wasn't half snooty, she dissed just about every property she was shown.
Made me wonder what sort of life they would be leading if they were back in their native country.

Pretty reasonable I would think. If someone has the talent/skill to make that much of money, then it doesnt matter what country or religion they belong to. They will do well in life. You may also be surprised to find that the lifestyle led by the rich in various developing countries are very often more flamboyant that they could enjoy in this country. Last time I went on a trip to India, there were more Bentleys/Rolls/Ferrari's than you could see in W1.

If I had a million pounds to spend, then I would be very selective too. Nothing wrong with that. Just because you are well off does not mean you need to accept the first thing that a TV show offers to you. Being rich does not take away your right to choose or to say no!

The above post is just one of pure envy along with the fact that the person who was better off wasnt one who looked like you. Would you make the same comment if that was a white woman from ROI?

Dont confuse race/colour/religion with despicable acts. They are despicable despite what colour skin the perpetator has. And punishment should not be mitigated based on the colour of skin or religion. Therein lies the problem with this country as it seems more interested in appearing politically correct than looking after itself and its interests.

If I get into my right wing mode, then I could go on and on. For eg: why does the UK offer asylum whilst the middle east doesnt? Should we continue to offer asylum seekers a place to live in?

Yes, a splendid post D. I think the following sums things up rather nicely;

Dont confuse race/colour/religion with despicable acts. They are despicable despite what colour skin the perpetator has. And punishment should not be mitigated based on the colour of skin or religion. Therein lies the problem with this country as it seems more interested in appearing politically correct than looking after itself and its interests.

[Tetleysmooth]

Sorry, but it still doesn't sit well with me.
We'll have to agree to disagree.

[D]

Sorry about my ranting on here people. I'm not normally like this, but I've watched the country go so far down the toilet, I despair.
It won't affect me because I'm old now, but I do worry for my kids and grandkids.

Regarding the woman who unleashed a volley of abuse on the tube train, and ended up on YouTube, was she just saying publicly what an awful lot of us think privately? I think so. She doesn't live far from me, actually.

To be more accurate, I would be happy to completely disagree with you if your thought process is the same as the above woman's.

That volley of abuse would only be correct if the entire white population was hard working, honest and not living off benefits; whilst the entire non white population are a bunch of scroungers living off the state and driving the country down the toilet as you state. Come work in my hospital (central London) and you will find that the large majority of drunk teens/chronic alcoholics/non working chronic healthcare seekers are in fact quite white and very British. The coloured immigrants are either working hard at cleaning the hospital or driving taxis at night. So attributing all of the downfall to just the immigrant population is a very lop sided approach to solving the problem.

There are also a lot of hard-working coloured people who do a very good job, pay their taxes and do no wrong and actually contribute to the economy. Just as there are a lot of white British folk who choose not to work, claim benefits, drink, steal and vandalise our cars.

I suspect its sentiments like yours that cause the politicians to overcompensate in their action to prove that there isn't an undercurrent of racism.

The OP was about mitigating sentences due to ethnicity/colour. You seemed to have taken it one step further to "kick all the coloured bastar** out of this country, they are driving us down the toilet".

I strongly disagree with that!

[Tetleysmooth]

Ok.
Be a boring world if we all thought the same.

[cleggy]

Sorry about my ranting on here people. I'm not normally like this, but I've watched the country go so far down the toilet, I despair.
It won't affect me because I'm old now, but I do worry for my kids and grandkids.

Regarding the woman who unleashed a volley of abuse on the tube train, and ended up on YouTube, was she just saying publicly what an awful lot of us think privately? I think so. She doesn't live far from me, actually.

To be more accurate, I would be happy to completely disagree with you if your thought process is the same as the above woman's.

That volley of abuse would only be correct if the entire white population was hard working, honest and not living off benefits; whilst the entire non white population are a bunch of scroungers living off the state and driving the country down the toilet as you state. Come work in my hospital (central London) and you will find that the large majority of drunk teens/chronic alcoholics/non working chronic healthcare seekers are in fact quite white and very British. The coloured immigrants are either working hard at cleaning the hospital or driving taxis at night. So attributing all of the downfall to just the immigrant population is a very lop sided approach to solving the problem.

There are also a lot of hard-working coloured people who do a very good job, pay their taxes and do no wrong and actually contribute to the economy. Just as there are a lot of white British folk who choose not to work, claim benefits, drink, steal and vandalise our cars.

I suspect its sentiments like yours that cause the politicians to overcompensate in their action to prove that there isn't an undercurrent of racism.

The OP was about mitigating sentences due to ethnicity/colour. You seemed to have taken it one step further to "kick all the coloured bastar** out of this country, they are driving us down the toilet".I strongly disagree with that!

Wouldn't do us much harm not that I agree with it, but each to their own opinion. I would make certain that anyone guilty of any crime was sentenced to punish them and give thought to the victims. 

Gun crime ... Black
Gangs..........Black
Terrorism......Muslim
Grooming......Muslim
Major crime...White


 

[D]

To redress some balance of thought:

Raoul Moat (gun crime) - Black

Liverpool gangs - Black

Punishment by crime, not by ethnicity. That's the way forward.
In the terrible case mentioned in the OP, the punishment should have been stricter/longer. My 2p.

[cleggy]

To redress some balance of thought:

Raoul Moat (gun crime) - Black

Liverpool gangs - Black

Punishment by crime, not by ethnicity. That's the way forward. In the terrible case mentioned in the OP, the punishment should have been stricter/longer. My 2p.

Agreed 

I was talking in the majority not the odd case

[Rods2]

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission says:

“Anybody who says that the fact that most of the men are Asian and most of the children are white is not relevant – that's just fatuous".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9263050/Claiming-Rochdale-grooming-not-about-race-is-fatuous-Trevor-Phillips.html

It is also interesting what he has to say about "multiculturalism" on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Phillips

He's not afraid to speak his mind and he seems more right to me than our weak weasel worded politicians.

[jerry]

Doubtless I have my own prejudices but I dont see mysef as racist/sexist/ageist etc and I do believe in fairness and equal opportunites. What I do recognize with every passing year however is the fact that I seem to be slowly turning into a Victor Meldrew style old git with increasing tendancies towards  more concervative (small C !!)/ right wing views. Was it Churchill who pointed out that liberal attitudes were something only youth could afford? Been recently re- reading PC Copperfield and Inspector Gadget and -whilst I may not agree with all their arguments-feel that only a fool could argue that laws re HASAW and Equality and Diversity (not to mention Human Rights !) have not now gone too far. Its almost as if the agencies involved have done the hard bit and addressed the original issues and are now actively seeking ever new "breaches" (real or otherwise) rather than concentrating on continued policing of the key issues. Could this be purely to keep themselves and their little empires in a job rather than tackling genuine problems? Surely there must be a backlash to all this nannystate/politically correct/blame culture at some point? It would be nice if STMO was right and we could influence our MPs but I sadly doubt it. I know that the mantra of "dont just bitch about it-do something about it" is true but I really am quite cynical now when it comes to politics and  the individual citizens ability to influence them whatever party is concerned. Gordon Brown's infamous comment over the lady who asked him about immigration seems typical when it comes to the arrogance of those in power and how they know best. Certainly seems to me that none of our "main" parties are really in touch with how the vast majority of the population feels