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[dbdb]

this thread pattern is designed towards wet surface.. in snow you may have some little traction but be warned you will have no brakes..

Correct for the first pic

but not the second.  I have checked my tyres and national do indeed show the wrong pic.  My WESTLAKE SV308 97W XL 235/45WR17 M&S tyres are the second pic, note the cross hatching.  These are M+S tyres. You are right the first pic tread is great in the wet but useless in snow, it is basically the Eagle F1 pattern but with 2 grooves added.

[Lazydocker]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

[cem_devecioglu]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I observed that, tyre makers build the winter tyres in varying compounds.. some models are directed towards city usage although having winter compound their teeth gaps are narrow and sipes relatively harder.. besides thread design towards speed..
examples
 
pirelli winter sottozero
http://www.google.com.tr/imgres?q=pirelli+winter+sottozero&um=1&hl=tr&tbo=d&rlz=1R2AURU_enTR506&biw=1440&bih=672&tbm=isch&tbnid=Ug1QFastrTAFBM:&imgrefurl=http://www.zapacki.net/index.php%3FcategoryID%3D2459&docid=a1Tyz7tAI-QAPM&imgurl=http://www.zapacki.net/products_pictures/Winter_210_Sottozero.jpg&w=400&h=400&ei=2aoDUbXVK-yZ0QWx9YC4Bw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=381&vpy=260&dur=1203&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=148&ty=149&sig=117480373914169701286&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=150&start=0&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0,i:109
 
kumho kw17
http://www.google.com.tr/imgres?q=kumho+kw19&um=1&hl=tr&tbo=d&rlz=1R2AURU_enTR506&biw=1440&bih=672&tbm=isch&tbnid=kx8KVCQeoIEc1M:&imgrefurl=http://www.mitsubishiclubturkey.com/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D8%26t%3D3406%26start%3D20&docid=QkiBSLRj4uKUgM&imgurl=http://www.vandmasini.ro/anvelope/poze-cauciucuri/kumho_tires/kumho_tires-kw17-izen-xw-205-50-R16.jpg&w=400&h=400&ei=TasDUaHFDIes0QXTyoDYCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=195&vpy=328&dur=1235&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=149&ty=138&sig=117480373914169701286&page=2&tbnh=133&tbnw=130&start=36&ndsp=41&ved=1t:429,r:59,s:0,i:258
 
 
 
but the other model is for really bad conditions and the teeth gaps are wide and sipes very soft
kumho kw22
http://www.google.com.tr/imgres?q=kw22&um=1&hl=tr&tbo=d&rlz=1R2AURU_enTR506&biw=1440&bih=672&tbm=isch&tbnid=NYapvyjqwb10bM:&imgrefurl=http://e-koleso.by/products/avtomobilnye-shiny/kumho/kw22-/12529&docid=0QTZqxgjLO49YM&imgurl=http://e-koleso.by/images/products/0001/6549/kumho_KW22.jpg&w=800&h=600&ei=xqsDUYLpJeSO4gSP4YDYDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=683&vpy=278&dur=984&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=160&ty=126&sig=117480373914169701286&page=1&tbnh=134&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=37&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0,i:118
 
goodyear ug500
http://www.google.com.tr/imgres?q=goodyear+ug+500&num=10&hl=tr&tbo=d&biw=1440&bih=672&tbm=isch&tbnid=IwtjRuRHo3cGfM:&imgrefurl=http://www.autoreview.ru/new_site/year2001/n11/goodyear/good.htm&docid=emM_KkQ-Y2pjHM&imgurl=http://www.autoreview.ru/new_site/year2001/n11/goodyear/800/ULTRAGRI500.jpg&w=800&h=1156&ei=I6wDUazoCMrOtAaf3IHAAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=2&vpy=2&dur=203&hovh=270&hovw=187&tx=54&ty=101&sig=117480373914169701286&page=1&tbnh=154&tbnw=109&start=0&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:79
 
and combined model
http://www.google.com.tr/imgres?q=goodyear+ug8&um=1&hl=tr&sa=N&tbo=d&rlz=1R2AURU_enTR506&biw=1440&bih=672&tbm=isch&tbnid=dGzGf55caTBEfM:&imgrefurl=http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_56680013/tm.htm&docid=ZEZa5sy6CET7XM&imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/lbo2F.jpg&w=900&h=900&ei=rqwDUcGICuyY0QWIyYCwCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=278&vpy=328&dur=1500&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=151&ty=189&sig=117480373914169701286&page=1&tbnh=144&tbnw=144&start=0&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:0,i:145
 
for braking on ice conditions (EVEN without studs) second group is definitely better..  but when conditions go dry first group have less braking distance as you can predict..
 
 

[aaronjb]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I was pretty amazed at how much traction mine found when I tested them out, though - standing on the brakes on a part snow part ice surface.. quite astounding compared to what I expected (being more used to summer tyres).

[Lazydocker]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I was pretty amazed at how much traction mine found when I tested them out, though - standing on the brakes on a part snow part ice surface.. quite astounding compared to what I expected (being more used to summer tyres).

Those Neuton's are (allegedly) M+S rated

I must admit, the Enduro's are very sure footed Obviously, stand on the anchors and they lock up but treated with the respect Ice and Snow deserve and they're reasonably good

[cem_devecioglu]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I was pretty amazed at how much traction mine found when I tested them out, though - standing on the brakes on a part snow part ice surface.. quite astounding compared to what I expected (being more used to summer tyres).

Those Neuton's are (allegedly) M+S rated

I must admit, the Enduro's are very sure footed Obviously, stand on the anchors and they lock up but treated with the respect Ice and Snow deserve and they're reasonably good

those neutons are nothing more than a summer tyre.. at most good for rain..

[Lazydocker]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I was pretty amazed at how much traction mine found when I tested them out, though - standing on the brakes on a part snow part ice surface.. quite astounding compared to what I expected (being more used to summer tyres).

Those Neuton's are (allegedly) M+S rated

I must admit, the Enduro's are very sure footed Obviously, stand on the anchors and they lock up but treated with the respect Ice and Snow deserve and they're reasonably good

those neutons are nothing more than a summer tyre.. at most good for rain..

No Cem, they are an All Season Tyre... They're M+S Rated

The fact they're shite doesn't come into it... They're an All Season Tyre so must be a magic cure to cold/snow/ice on the roads

[cem_devecioglu]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I was pretty amazed at how much traction mine found when I tested them out, though - standing on the brakes on a part snow part ice surface.. quite astounding compared to what I expected (being more used to summer tyres).

Those Neuton's are (allegedly) M+S rated

I must admit, the Enduro's are very sure footed Obviously, stand on the anchors and they lock up but treated with the respect Ice and Snow deserve and they're reasonably good

those neutons are nothing more than a summer tyre.. at most good for rain..

No Cem, they are an All Season Tyre... They're M+S Rated

The fact they're shite doesn't come into it... They're an All Season Tyre so must be a magic cure to cold/snow/ice on the roads

an all season tyre must have sipes.. at least in a raw..  those have no sipes.. end of

[Lazydocker]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I was pretty amazed at how much traction mine found when I tested them out, though - standing on the brakes on a part snow part ice surface.. quite astounding compared to what I expected (being more used to summer tyres).

Those Neuton's are (allegedly) M+S rated

I must admit, the Enduro's are very sure footed Obviously, stand on the anchors and they lock up but treated with the respect Ice and Snow deserve and they're reasonably good

those neutons are nothing more than a summer tyre.. at most good for rain..

No Cem, they are an All Season Tyre... They're M+S Rated

The fact they're shite doesn't come into it... They're an All Season Tyre so must be a magic cure to cold/snow/ice on the roads

an all season tyre must have sipes.. at least in a raw..  those have no sipes.. end of

But you miss the point Cem... They're M+S Rated so therefore they are classed as an all season tyre

[cem_devecioglu]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I was pretty amazed at how much traction mine found when I tested them out, though - standing on the brakes on a part snow part ice surface.. quite astounding compared to what I expected (being more used to summer tyres).

Those Neuton's are (allegedly) M+S rated

I must admit, the Enduro's are very sure footed Obviously, stand on the anchors and they lock up but treated with the respect Ice and Snow deserve and they're reasonably good

those neutons are nothing more than a summer tyre.. at most good for rain..

No Cem, they are an All Season Tyre... They're M+S Rated

The fact they're shite doesn't come into it... They're an All Season Tyre so must be a magic cure to cold/snow/ice on the roads

an all season tyre must have sipes.. at least in a raw..  those have no sipes.. end of

But you miss the point Cem... They're M+S Rated so therefore they are classed as an all season tyre

 

[Lazydocker]

Just being M + S rated doesn't mean they'll find traction when you need to brake But then, neither will full winters unless studded

I was pretty amazed at how much traction mine found when I tested them out, though - standing on the brakes on a part snow part ice surface.. quite astounding compared to what I expected (being more used to summer tyres).

Those Neuton's are (allegedly) M+S rated

I must admit, the Enduro's are very sure footed Obviously, stand on the anchors and they lock up but treated with the respect Ice and Snow deserve and they're reasonably good

those neutons are nothing more than a summer tyre.. at most good for rain..

No Cem, they are an All Season Tyre... They're M+S Rated

The fact they're shite doesn't come into it... They're an All Season Tyre so must be a magic cure to cold/snow/ice on the roads

an all season tyre must have sipes.. at least in a raw..  those have no sipes.. end of

But you miss the point Cem... They're M+S Rated so therefore they are classed as an all season tyre

 

Exactly That will be the argument used by some muppet

[dbdb]

Exactly That will be the argument used by some muppet

Or some Newbie