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Author Topic: Should I have bothered .... ?  (Read 1294 times)

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Entwood

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Should I have bothered .... ?
« on: 04 April 2014, 19:44:34 »

As the title .... :(

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=43963.7410 posts #7395 and #7412

If you don't want to read that link .. short story is : Going for a full Geo Monday so I check the rear control arms - seized,  so I "tried" to free one, and failed in a spectacular fashion .. 2 new ones ordered at £83 each.. and probably VAT to add to that.

:(

Going back through my receipts, this car has been to WIM three times; June 2009 (86852 miles) after wishbones changed, September 2010 (101071 miles) after drop links and front TRE's (busy Newent that was!), and September 2011 (110176 miles) after wishbones, steering idler, front wheel bearings.

On EVERY occasion the rear "geometrical driving axis" was -0.04 (target 0.00 +/- 0.13) ... so well "within limits".... and therefore, apparently, not touched.

The only work on the rear (other than brakes etc) that has been done since the last time is a new nearside rear wheel bearing, a replacement diff, and polybush rear doughnuts.

I don't see any of those changing the rear alignment (although I could well be wrong) .... so

Should I have left "well alone" and saved myself: around £200 in parts, £50 in tools; 2 1/2 days, a fair bit of blood and skin, god knows how much that I SHOULD have put in the swear box, and a large number of paracetamols ... ??

They have obviously not been touched since I bought the car in Jan 08 with 70981 miles ....

 :-\ :-\     :'( :'( :'(

Car now has 136382 miles .. so the Lemforder wishbones lasted 26,000 odd miles
« Last Edit: 04 April 2014, 19:56:27 by Entwood »
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tunnie

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Re: Should I have bothered .... ?
« Reply #1 on: 04 April 2014, 19:54:29 »

How do you know the wishbones are shot? Tyre wear? or a crowbar test?
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Entwood

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Re: Should I have bothered .... ?
« Reply #2 on: 04 April 2014, 20:01:40 »

How do you know the wishbones are shot? Tyre wear? or a crowbar test?

Edge wear on tyres, crowbar gave a tad too much on leverage, and the steering just "felt" a tad vague at times.

Looking at the wishbones when removed, and handed over to Joff as he's going to refurb and reuse them, the front bushes both had splits about 1 - 1 1/2 inches radially on the outer edge, although the "spokes" - for want of a better word - looked intact.

The replacement 'bones have polybushes on the front and genuine Vx rear bushes and balljoints, courtesy of the "Joff Refurb Service", so should last a lot longer ... 
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Andy H

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Re: Should I have bothered .... ?
« Reply #3 on: 04 April 2014, 20:23:35 »

As the title .... :(

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=43963.7410 posts #7395 and #7412

If you don't want to read that link .. short story is : Going for a full Geo Monday so I check the rear control arms - seized,  so I "tried" to free one, and failed in a spectacular fashion .. 2 new ones ordered at £83 each.. and probably VAT to add to that.

:(

Going back through my receipts, this car has been to WIM three times; June 2009 (86852 miles) after wishbones changed, September 2010 (101071 miles) after drop links and front TRE's (busy Newent that was!), and September 2011 (110176 miles) after wishbones, steering idler, front wheel bearings.

On EVERY occasion the rear "geometrical driving axis" was -0.04 (target 0.00 +/- 0.13) ... so well "within limits".... and therefore, apparently, not touched.

The only work on the rear (other than brakes etc) that has been done since the last time is a new nearside rear wheel bearing, a replacement diff, and polybush rear doughnuts.

I don't see any of those changing the rear alignment (although I could well be wrong) .... so

Should I have left "well alone" and saved myself: around £200 in parts, £50 in tools; 2 1/2 days, a fair bit of blood and skin, god knows how much that I SHOULD have put in the swear box, and a large number of paracetamols ... ??

They have obviously not been touched since I bought the car in Jan 08 with 70981 miles ....

 :-\ :-\     :'( :'( :'(

Car now has 136382 miles .. so the Lemforder wishbones lasted 26,000 odd miles
I dropped my differential to change the rear springs recently. There seems to be a lot of clearance around the bolts that hold the rubber mounts to the chassis. I don't know if they can upset the rear alignment :-\ I assume that the doughnuts have the greatest influence :-\
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chrisgixer

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Re: Should I have bothered .... ?
« Reply #4 on: 04 April 2014, 20:38:04 »

There's no way of knowing if the rear needed adjusting until it's measured.

But self levelling should keep the rear height correct, and hence camber should stay constant.
Donut change doesn't affect the set up enough to worry about, as the springs push the subframe to the most rearward point anyway. So the centre bolt is the constant there.

Wheel bearing and dif swap n/a.



However, if the camber and combined toe push the rear thrust direction off centre, this can stear the rear of the car out of line. So if they can't adjust the rear tr's it can be VERY difficult to get the steering wheel level. Even though its correct to the front settings. (The car crabs, basically)

Probably the biggest cause of off centre steering wheel issues.

In short, too late to worry about it now. ;)

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chrisgixer

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Re: Should I have bothered .... ?
« Reply #5 on: 04 April 2014, 20:44:56 »

No need to touch the rearward subframe mounts to change the dif. So doesn't affect set up.

Often inaccurately called "rear dif blocks" on here, by me included as that's the easiest way to describe them, they attach the rear of the subframe to the body. The dif itself is then attached to the subframe by completely separate bushes.

"Dif blocks" are undone from the body for a rear spring change however, by lowering the rear of the subframe. ( not "by lowering the dif." Another inaccurate but easy description)


Edit to add. Again though, the centre bolt in the donuts dictates the subframe position during the spring change, due to the springs pushing the subframe rearward. Plus the donuts are clamped by the bolt.
« Last Edit: 04 April 2014, 20:48:39 by chrisgixer »
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TheBoy

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Re: Should I have bothered .... ?
« Reply #6 on: 04 April 2014, 21:14:04 »

Watch the guy doing the geo, and only settle for 0.00 for thrust angle.  All sorts of strange traits creep in otherwise.

Grease up new arms
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Andy H

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Re: Should I have bothered .... ?
« Reply #7 on: 04 April 2014, 22:26:35 »

No need to touch the rearward subframe mounts to change the dif. So doesn't affect set up.

Often inaccurately called "rear dif blocks" on here, by me included as that's the easiest way to describe them, they attach the rear of the subframe to the body. The dif itself is then attached to the subframe by completely separate bushes.

"Dif blocks" are undone from the body for a rear spring change however, by lowering the rear of the subframe. ( not "by lowering the dif." Another inaccurate but easy description)


Edit to add. Again though, the centre bolt in the donuts dictates the subframe position during the spring change, due to the springs pushing the subframe rearward. Plus the donuts are clamped by the bolt.
Thanks Chris
A clear and accurate explanation. I did give some thought to what I was actually releasing when I unbolted the diff blocks but promptly forgot once everything was safely back together and torqued up again.
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