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[Doctor Gollum]

... And thought about adding them to the Syria thread, but as that is old news now, I felt it would benefit from it's own thread...

"Make no mistake about it: the choice is indeed between two visions of the world. To those who choose to use force and think that they can resolve the world's complexity through swift and preventive action, we offer in contrast determined action over time. For today, to ensure our security, all the dimensions of the problem must be taken into account: both the manifold crises and their many facets, including cultural and religious. Nothing lasting in international relations can be built therefore without exigencies and abiding by principles, especially for the democracies that must set the example. To ignore this is to run the risk of misunderstanding, radicalisation and spiralling violence. This is even more true in the Middle East, an area of fractures and ancient conflicts where stability must be a major objective for us."

[amazonian]

Well spotted doc,  these words are most agreeable and uplifting.

If only the enlightened speakers mind could be transposed into those of Trump. Putin. Assad. etc etc  what a different world this would be!

                                     

[Lizzie Zoom]

Absolutely in agreement with that

My idle, Sir Winston Churchill simply put it this way, "it is better to jaw, jaw, than war, war."

The trouble is, as Thomas Hobbs identified in his philosophy:

"it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man. For WARRE, consisteth not in Battell onely, or the act of fighting; but in a tract of time, wherein the Will to contend by Battell is sufficiently known; and therefore the notion of Time, is to be consideredin the nature of Warre ; as it is in the nature of Weather. For as the nature of Foule weather, lyeth not in a showre or two of rain; but in an inclination thereto of many dayes together ; So the nature of War, consisteth not in actual fighting; but in the known disposition thereto, during all the time there is no assurance to the contrary. All other time is PEACE." Hobbes. T., (1651) Leviathan pages 185 & 186 Penguinclassics.

In short words, man has a primary default to war..

Until this "natural" desire is quenched I foresee nothing but conflict until then.

[STEMO]

How can you quench a natural desire? Certainly not with an idle prime minister.

[Lizzie Zoom]

How can you quench a natural desire? Certainly not with an idle prime minister.

You have hit on the crux of the problem STEMO. It takes a very strong leader to take us to war, and an equally strong one to maintain the peace.

Weakness in the Prime Ministers in 1914 and 1938/9 brought on a war that could have been avoided with very strong diplomacy. In both cases Asquith and Chamberlain failed in that process.

[Mister Rog]

Well spotted doc,  these words are most agreeable and uplifting.

If only the enlightened speakers mind could be transposed into those of Trump. Putin. Assad. etc etc  what a different world this would be!

                                     

 . . . . and ISIS and the Taliban please

[Entwood]

How can you quench a natural desire? Certainly not with an idle prime minister.

You have hit on the crux of the problem STEMO. It takes a very strong leader to take us to war, and an equally strong one to maintain the peace.

Weakness in the Prime Ministers in 1914 and 1938/9 brought on a war that could have been avoided with very strong diplomacy. In both cases Asquith and Chamberlain failed in that process.

Lizzie .. I think you might have missed his, rather subtle, dig at a small error in your earlier post ....

My idle, Sir Winston Churchill simply put it this way, "it is better to jaw, jaw, than war, war."

pretty certain you might have actually meant something very slightly different .....        

[STEMO]

How can you quench a natural desire? Certainly not with an idle prime minister.

You have hit on the crux of the problem STEMO. It takes a very strong leader to take us to war, and an equally strong one to maintain the peace.

Weakness in the Prime Ministers in 1914 and 1938/9 brought on a war that could have been avoided with very strong diplomacy. In both cases Asquith and Chamberlain failed in that process.

Lizzie .. I think you might have missed his, rather subtle, dig at a small error in your earlier post ....

My idle, Sir Winston Churchill simply put it this way, "it is better to jaw, jaw, than war, war."

pretty certain you might have actually meant something very slightly different .....        

Wow, thanks, Nigel. Never been called subtle before. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

How can you quench a natural desire? Certainly not with an idle prime minister.

You have hit on the crux of the problem STEMO. It takes a very strong leader to take us to war, and an equally strong one to maintain the peace.

Weakness in the Prime Ministers in 1914 and 1938/9 brought on a war that could have been avoided with very strong diplomacy. In both cases Asquith and Chamberlain failed in that process.

Lizzie .. I think you might have missed his, rather subtle, dig at a small error in your earlier post ....

My idle, Sir Winston Churchill simply put it this way, "it is better to jaw, jaw, than war, war."

pretty certain you might have actually meant something very slightly different .....        

I did mean quench, as you can fight a desire forever, but once a man becomes absolutely drenched and fully quenched with education you have far more of a chance to alter the natural behaviour.  It is called behaviial training.   

As for idle, yes that was an error!

[ronnyd]

Idol, idle, they sound the same. No wonder visitors to our shores are confused.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Idol, idle, they sound the same. No wonder visitors to our shores are confused.

Oh yes the English language has a lot to answer for.  I tend to like American English which does avoid some of the pitfalls. Trouble is it is not accepted in general writing circles

[BazaJT]

I read a quote some years ago[can't recall who it was attributed to]that went along the lines of "Whilstever there are two people alive on this planet there will be a war"