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[geoffr70]

Getting caught doing 100 mph isn't an instant ban

Nor is getting caught at 125 - but you have to be very very lucky.

Best keep that one quiet!!

[geoffr70]

How can people say that when you're number's up it's up?!?! And say about fate and what have you?!?!

Well then what's the point in having speed limits, traffic lights and safe systems of work and road design?

If someone has a heart attack let's just leave them to die, or if someone has cancer don't give them any treatment, just leave them, it's their turn to kick the bucket! What's all that about?!?!

I don't think so. Yes there are many things that we can't change or do anything about, but as has been mentioned it's all about risk assessment and taking action to mitigate the risk.

Everyone on this forum, countless times everyday without even thinking about it will take action or not take action to change outcomes, or to increase or decrease the likelihood of something happening or not happening.

This thing we call fate is just our brains looking for patterns and trying to find a reason for things we can't explain or don't want to accept.

I agree that came across as a bit fatalist in the discussion but I don't think it was meant that way.

There are some circumstances where you know that YOU have no control over whether you live or die.  At those times it might be appropriate to say our number's up.  However, we find ourselves in situations daily where we can choose if we live or die, and if someone else lives or dies.  That's where social responsibility comes in.

As for God intervening...  I am sure he does on occasion but generally he relies on the ordered nature of what he's created to determine outcomes.
I have a nephew who shouldn't be alive but his non-God-believing neurosurgeon says it's a miracle that he is alive.  Three years on from his collision he is starting to walk again.  Not a complete healing by any stretch of the imagination, but his parents are mighty happy to have him around.

I agree with you there, in that there are circumstances where you have no control, but how many really do you not have control over? Really?

1.  A madwoman pointing a gun to your head. You can reason with her. It might not work and she might shoot you, but at least you could argue you had a small amount of control.

2.  People who skid on black ice, then say 'I didn't see it, it's not my fault' etc etc! They know it's cold, there should be a reasonable expectation as to the road conditions. Yes we all can be caught out, but we still have control. I for one love going fast, but appropriately, I hate inappropriate speed, it's not fun it's daft.

3.  A cancer sufferer. They might not be able to treat it themselves. But if they seek treatment that is an element of control.

I once watched a TV program about a so called haunted area/road. A woman said that she was driving along this stretch of 'haunted' road when suddenly the steering wheel jerked to the left and she nearly crashed. She didn't crash, but tried to say that it was a ghost that had grabbed the wheel and tried to make her crash. More like she was gassing to her mate/on the phone/not paying attention or didn't have a proper hold of the steering wheel or something else plausible or a combination. Either way she had control.

I'm sorry about your nephew Chris H, I hope he gets better, like I hope everyone lives a healthy life. I know nothing about his collision, but speaking generally I would say this.

If, owing to the nature of their driving, an individual has a crash, then so many months/years down the line there is medical complications, I would say they do have control. Bear with me. Yes they might not be a doctor, and can't treat themselves, but theie injuries are just a consequence of their driving, which they had control over, however long the injuries or recovery last.

Yeah I believe there are situations where we have no control, but they are very very rare.

[kevinminton]

coming back to the discussion after a gap ...

I still have problem with the idea that the fatalist argument, death by cancer etc has any relevance at all to speeding. When you're approaching the blind bend, you make a decision as to how fast to go round it. If the idea of god's plan enters your mind at all, then you are giving up part of the responsibility for what happens. "It was god's foot on the gas pedal"

Now the fatalist approach to life and all that may have been OK for a peasant farmer 500 years ago, when there wasn't much they could do to influence the course of their life: being dependent on forces outside their control as to whether the crops grew, illness came. It would give some comfort for the misery. And undoubtedly would have been encouraged by the ruling classes to stop the peasants thinking for themselves.

Also, the peasant would never have had much power (instant power) over other people's lives. You could deliberately chase them with a plough, maybe? But you wouldn't regularly have had the power to hit them with 2 tons of metal at 40mph, as a result of a fractional wrong decision or lapse of attention when safety margins had been deliberately eroded, and you had clear knowledge of the possible consequences.

So nowadays we need a rather more mature, thoughtful and developed approach to what we do with our free will - whether that free will is exercised in a god's plan paradigm, or a completely secular one (like mine).

And the secular amongst us are well aware that there are things outside our control - we don't need to wear them on our sleeve.

As Solomon said,  ... there is a time to reap, and a time to sow, a time to live, a time to die ... etc. (see Ecclesiastes) And a time to race (private road), and a time to keep to the limit (public road)!

[Chris_H]

coming back to the discussion after a gap ...

I still have problem with the idea that the fatalist argument, death by cancer etc has any relevance at all to speeding. When you're approaching the blind bend, you make a decision as to how fast to go round it. If the idea of god's plan enters your mind at all, then you are giving up part of the responsibility for what happens. "It was god's foot on the gas pedal"

Now the fatalist approach to life and all that may have been OK for a peasant farmer 500 years ago, when there wasn't much they could do to influence the course of their life: being dependent on forces outside their control as to whether the crops grew, illness came. It would give some comfort for the misery. And undoubtedly would have been encouraged by the ruling classes to stop the peasants thinking for themselves.

Also, the peasant would never have had much power (instant power) over other people's lives. You could deliberately chase them with a plough, maybe? But you wouldn't regularly have had the power to hit them with 2 tons of metal at 40mph, as a result of a fractional wrong decision or lapse of attention when safety margins had been deliberately eroded, and you had clear knowledge of the possible consequences.

So nowadays we need a rather more mature, thoughtful and developed approach to what we do with our free will - whether that free will is exercised in a god's plan paradigm, or a completely secular one (like mine).

And the secular amongst us are well aware that there are things outside our control - we don't need to wear them on our sleeve.

As Solomon said,  ... there is a time to reap, and a time to sow, a time to live, a time to die ... etc. (see Ecclesiastes) And a time to race (private road), and a time to keep to the limit (public road)!

1 Kings 11:3
He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.

The paradox of wisdom

[kevinminton]

coming back to the discussion after a gap ...

I still have problem with the idea that the fatalist argument, death by cancer etc has any relevance at all to speeding. When you're approaching the blind bend, you make a decision as to how fast to go round it. If the idea of god's plan enters your mind at all, then you are giving up part of the responsibility for what happens. "It was god's foot on the gas pedal"

Now the fatalist approach to life and all that may have been OK for a peasant farmer 500 years ago, when there wasn't much they could do to influence the course of their life: being dependent on forces outside their control as to whether the crops grew, illness came. It would give some comfort for the misery. And undoubtedly would have been encouraged by the ruling classes to stop the peasants thinking for themselves.

Also, the peasant would never have had much power (instant power) over other people's lives. You could deliberately chase them with a plough, maybe? But you wouldn't regularly have had the power to hit them with 2 tons of metal at 40mph, as a result of a fractional wrong decision or lapse of attention when safety margins had been deliberately eroded, and you had clear knowledge of the possible consequences.

So nowadays we need a rather more mature, thoughtful and developed approach to what we do with our free will - whether that free will is exercised in a god's plan paradigm, or a completely secular one (like mine).

And the secular amongst us are well aware that there are things outside our control - we don't need to wear them on our sleeve.

As Solomon said,  ... there is a time to reap, and a time to sow, a time to live, a time to die ... etc. (see Ecclesiastes) And a time to race (private road), and a time to keep to the limit (public road)!

1 Kings 11:3
He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.

The paradox of wisdom

Ha ha I didn't know that. Forget all that gathering stones together stuff - I expect he didn't have time to do much at all other than what he was told  - so much for free will!

[Dishevelled Den]

coming back to the discussion after a gap ...

I still have problem with the idea that the fatalist argument, death by cancer etc has any relevance at all to speeding. When you're approaching the blind bend, you make a decision as to how fast to go round it. If the idea of god's plan enters your mind at all, then you are giving up part of the responsibility for what happens. "It was god's foot on the gas pedal"

Now the fatalist approach to life and all that may have been OK for a peasant farmer 500 years ago, when there wasn't much they could do to influence the course of their life: being dependent on forces outside their control as to whether the crops grew, illness came. It would give some comfort for the misery. And undoubtedly would have been encouraged by the ruling classes to stop the peasants thinking for themselves.

Also, the peasant would never have had much power (instant power) over other people's lives. You could deliberately chase them with a plough, maybe? But you wouldn't regularly have had the power to hit them with 2 tons of metal at 40mph, as a result of a fractional wrong decision or lapse of attention when safety margins had been deliberately eroded, and you had clear knowledge of the possible consequences.

So nowadays we need a rather more mature, thoughtful and developed approach to what we do with our free will - whether that free will is exercised in a god's plan paradigm, or a completely secular one (like mine).

And the secular amongst us are well aware that there are things outside our control - we don't need to wear them on our sleeve.

As Solomon said,  ... there is a time to reap, and a time to sow, a time to live, a time to die ... etc. (see Ecclesiastes) And a time to race (private road), and a time to keep to the limit (public road)!

I thought that a fine analysis K which I'm happy to qoute in full.

I've seen a lot during the time I've been dealing with people - great things and woefully disturbing things so I've had to become somewhat of a practical bugger.

This may not be particularly fashionable when entering the realms of esoteric argument such as we've witnessed up to the moment but in my view most things in life involving human behaviour are inherently tied to basic motivational traits.

Bearing that in mind I'll simply say to those who like to push the envelope - keep poking that dog with a stick and eventually it'll bite you.

And no, that’s not an excuse to become reclusive and absent oneself from the norms of society it's simply an invitation to think about what you're doing - and of the possible consequences - and if you still enjoy taking risks (having regard to the OP) by all means do so in a suitable environment – not in one where the lives and welfare of others can be compromised 

[tonyyeb]

Some really excellent posts on this thread; it's a difficult subject, and honesty is important to add anything meaningful to what's gone before.
Yes, I do speed. Like many others on here, I WON'T speed in built-up areas or when road conditions make fast travel inappropriate, but, like many of you, I have a large-engined executive express at my disposal that is more than capable of doing double the UK speed limit, and has been engineered accordingly. I have no intention of ever attempting to discover exactly what my car is capable of on a UK road, but on a lightly populated motorway in good road conditions and assuming a reasonable degree of driving proficiency on my part (licence for 30 years, no accidents in the last 28 years, some competition experience), I don't see momentary 100+ miles an hour travel as akin to devil-worship.
The Police, should they be interested, are entitled to their view and sanction should they see fit, and I'll deal with that with equanimity should it happen.

Having said all that, I deployed the cruise control on my relatively-recently purchased 3.0 Elite for the first time today on my way home from my mum's in Wales - firstly at 66 mph on the A4042 to Newport, then at 71 mph on the M4 to Bristol. I rather liked it.....I might do it some more...... [smiley=laugh.gif]   

[Amigo]

Some really excellent posts on this thread; it's a difficult subject, and honesty is important to add anything meaningful to what's gone before.
Yes, I do speed. Like many others on here, I WON'T speed in built-up areas or when road conditions make fast travel inappropriate, but, like many of you, I have a large-engined executive express at my disposal that is more than capable of doing double the UK speed limit, and has been engineered accordingly. I have no intention of ever attempting to discover exactly what my car is capable of on a UK road, but on a lightly populated motorway in good road conditions and assuming a reasonable degree of driving proficiency on my part (licence for 30 years, no accidents in the last 28 years, some competition experience), I don't see momentary 100+ miles an hour travel as akin to devil-worship.
The Police, should they be interested, are entitled to their view and sanction should they see fit, and I'll deal with that with equanimity should it happen.

Having said all that, I deployed the cruise control on my relatively-recently purchased 3.0 Elite for the first time today on my way home from my mum's in Wales - firstly at 66 mph on the A4042 to Newport, then at 71 mph on the M4 to Bristol. I rather liked it.....I might do it some more...... [smiley=laugh.gif]   

Hotel 21 fitted cruise to the MV6 before i bought it & i luvvit! helps keep the speed down on long runs.