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[Varche]

How long before the UN / Nato are sucked into Somalia and Mali?

Will there be an appetite for it?  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20999348

It is rarely reported on British TV how much hurt non English speaking countries incur fighting terrorism. Spain have lost over 100 souls in Afghanistan and "frittered away" 3.5 billion euros. You would think it was just Britain and the USA.

It might just be the war to save the West!

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think that the French get involved in African affairs or at least Francofone African affairs a lot more than we realise.    They have military bases in Senegal, Ivory Coast and Djibouti.  In the last couple of days they have lost a pilot in Mali and a couple of soldiers in Somalia. 

I can't really see the UN becoming heavily involved in Somalia again in the near future and to be honest the African Union hasn't done a bad job   there in recent years, with Ugandan troops taking the lead role and more recently Kenya has weighed in.  Mali however seems different for some reason.... maybe there's oil there?   

[BazaJT]

Apparently British aircraft are now to be used to fly in French troops,but reportedly no British troops will be sent.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Apparently British aircraft are now to be used to fly in French troops,but reportedly no British troops will be sent.

Yes, it has been confirmed on the BBC News that a RAF C17 Transport Command aircraft has been used to ferry French troops, and French fighters are now in action.

The West never learns!

[albitz]

We can hardly refuse though,since our Govt. decided we could do without aircraft carriers for several years and just call on the French if we have a bit of trouble.

[Varche]

I find it hard to believe that the Frenchies don't have any planes to fly in troops. But then as said we don't have any aircraft carriers.

[Broomies Mate]

I find it hard to believe that the Frenchies don't have any planes to fly in troops. But then as said we don't have any aircraft carriers.

Difference being, you can fly troops in using a Civilian Passenger Aircraft if 'needs be'.  You can't use a Dinghy to scramble Fighter Jets! 

[Entwood]

French have very limited air transport capabilities at the moment .. they "had" a large fleet of C130s but as they have aged they went for the A400M as a replacement, ordering 50 of them ... but the A400M is running well behind schedule, so leaving them very short of "ramp loading" air transport... hence the request for UK assistance with C17's.

The UK had C130 H's & J's .. but realised that with the Afghan logistics and the aging C130's there would be a problem .. hence we acquired C17's as well as ordering A400M's.

Within Europe we actually have the most capable Air Transport Fleet going.

[Rods2]

Many past conflicts were strategic as part of the East v West Cold War. With the demise of the USSR this has effectively ended as we are largely on the same side. There are differences of opinion and certain amount of rivalry between the US and Russia, but there are between many countries.

What is happening now is another type of strategic war with Iran normally are the centre of things. They are arming Islamic terrorist groups to spread Iran style strict Muslim rule. When they take over an area with their irregular army, the population must conform and people with other religious beliefs are persecuted and either driven out or killed.

In the Cold War period from 1945 to 1991 there was a global battle of ideologies of democratic - capitalist countries against a number of communist countries. There were democratic capitalist countries and communist countries that were not involved where they wanted to live in peace and harmony. The new global ideological battles are militant Islam countries against particularly big and little Satan (the US and UK), but against many other countries. There will be like the Cold War Islamic and primary Christian countries that will not be involved where they want to live in peace and harmony, but there will be many battlegrounds with North Africa currently one of the biggest.

Unfortunately, like during the cold war it is not in Western countries interests to ignore what is happening in North Africa.

The Mali situation has been particularly unfortunate, where the West has supplied military equipment to support them. Due to the poor quality of the Mali army, much of this equipment has been lost to the rebels so they are much better armed than they were. Now the west either intervenes or accepts that most of Africa with a few exceptions, become militant Islamic regimes. With the current French support for the Mali Government, we can see strategically where this is leading.

Unfortunately, this may become another Afghanistan with many countries being dragged into to push back the tide. If we want to defend out Christian way of life that certain countries want to destroy, then we have no choice.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Apparently one of Britain's C17's being used for Mali has broken down..... 

[Varche]

Many past conflicts were strategic as part of the East v West Cold War. With the demise of the USSR this has effectively ended as we are largely on the same side. There are differences of opinion and certain amount of rivalry between the US and Russia, but there are between many countries.

What is happening now is another type of strategic war with Iran normally are the centre of things. They are arming Islamic terrorist groups to spread Iran style strict Muslim rule. When they take over an area with their irregular army, the population must conform and people with other religious beliefs are persecuted and either driven out or killed.

In the Cold War period from 1945 to 1991 there was a global battle of ideologies of democratic - capitalist countries against a number of communist countries. There were democratic capitalist countries and communist countries that were not involved where they wanted to live in peace and harmony. The new global ideological battles are militant Islam countries against particularly big and little Satan (the US and UK), but against many other countries. There will be like the Cold War Islamic and primary Christian countries that will not be involved where they want to live in peace and harmony, but there will be many battlegrounds with North Africa currently one of the biggest.

Unfortunately, like during the cold war it is not in Western countries interests to ignore what is happening in North Africa.

The Mali situation has been particularly unfortunate, where the West has supplied military equipment to support them. Due to the poor quality of the Mali army, much of this equipment has been lost to the rebels so they are much better armed than they were. Now the west either intervenes or accepts that most of Africa with a few exceptions, become militant Islamic regimes. With the current French support for the Mali Government, we can see strategically where this is leading.

Unfortunately, this may become another Afghanistan with many countries being dragged into to push back the tide. If we want to defend out Christian way of life that certain countries want to destroy, then we have no choice.

That was the point behind my original post. However the Frenchies have assured us it will all be over in a fortnight. We can sleep easy once more.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I can't see it becoming another Afghanistan to be honest.  Afghanistan has long and porous borders with Iran and Pakistan allowing the Taliban to resupply and re-equip.  Without the support of Iran and probably Pakistan (or at least from elements within) the Taliban would not have been able to sustain their guerrilla war against Nato forces.   

I don't think that the rebels in Mali will have the same back up. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Many past conflicts were strategic as part of the East v West Cold War. With the demise of the USSR this has effectively ended as we are largely on the same side. There are differences of opinion and certain amount of rivalry between the US and Russia, but there are between many countries.

What is happening now is another type of strategic war with Iran normally are the centre of things. They are arming Islamic terrorist groups to spread Iran style strict Muslim rule. When they take over an area with their irregular army, the population must conform and people with other religious beliefs are persecuted and either driven out or killed.

In the Cold War period from 1945 to 1991 there was a global battle of ideologies of democratic - capitalist countries against a number of communist countries. There were democratic capitalist countries and communist countries that were not involved where they wanted to live in peace and harmony. The new global ideological battles are militant Islam countries against particularly big and little Satan (the US and UK), but against many other countries. There will be like the Cold War Islamic and primary Christian countries that will not be involved where they want to live in peace and harmony, but there will be many battlegrounds with North Africa currently one of the biggest.

Unfortunately, like during the cold war it is not in Western countries interests to ignore what is happening in North Africa.

The Mali situation has been particularly unfortunate, where the West has supplied military equipment to support them. Due to the poor quality of the Mali army, much of this equipment has been lost to the rebels so they are much better armed than they were. Now the west either intervenes or accepts that most of Africa with a few exceptions, become militant Islamic regimes. With the current French support for the Mali Government, we can see strategically where this is leading.

Unfortunately, this may become another Afghanistan with many countries being dragged into to push back the tide. If we want to defend out Christian way of life that certain countries want to destroy, then we have no choice.

I generally agree with that critique Rods2!

However I would not paint such a cosy picture of the relationship with Russia as that is always, until they have a true or any democracy, open to considerable doubt. The West is still monitoring Russia closely as they monitor us, and any movement of missile's, for example to Turkey, can cause military friction that would come close to past events if allowed to run.

In addition never forget China in all this.  They are very concerned over both Iran and their old sponsored state of North Korea. Any conflict or potentially dangerous development that approaches their borders will cause a Chinese reaction, as much as the Western allies will react.

We can never be complacent now, as the World is more dangerous than the days of the USSR.

[Rods2]

In Syria, Russia and the West have played it respectfully through the UN, where Russia has strategic navel base. Yes, when missile bases are threatened to be placed near Russia there is a certain amount of Sabre rattling.

Russia has had major problems with Checknya, which was a brutal and bloody civil war for both sides. I think they will be mindful of this which will prevent them intervening in any religious war in Africa.

I agree Russia is a non-aligned nation, but much of their rhetoric is for domestic consumption, like UK bashing in France always bumps up a politicians rating. Yes, they miss the Soviet empire and the clout this carried hence a certain amount of bullying to try a keep the non-Western countries on their side. This applies particularly to the Ukraine, where west Ukraine has a Ukrainian majority and are Western looking and pro-EU against Eastern Ukraine which has a majority Russian population who are much more pro-Russian. The ascendancy at the moment is with a pro-Russian president.

Ukraine is currently being courted by the EU with an EFA agreement which has been agreed but put on hold due to the jailing of opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko and a Russian customs union. Democracy in Russia and Ukraine may not be perfect, but they are both more democratic than the EU, sad but true!

Russia is becoming more involved with global trade as a G20 member, a recent WTA agreement, the recruitment of US hi-tech companies to their silicon village and strong reciprocal ties with Germany. They are strengthening their ties with the west.

Much more dangerous at the moment is China and their brinkmanship with Japan over a few uninhabited islands, where they are trying to claim the South China sea as their exclusive domain. IMHO a war here is much more likely, hence the US strengthening of their Pacific fleet. Generally, dictators start major wars and democracies finish them.