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[Marks DTM Calib]

A few facts.

1) You can change the belt without the kit,
2) You cant time the banks up correctly without the timing gauge
2) The eccentrics do two things, the first sets the 3-4 cam to crank timing, the second the 1-2 to 3-4 cam bank timing.

So, we have a decision here, do we want to do a quality job which aligns with that done by the OE engine supplier in the factory OR a short cut bodge?

There will be no process used during the construction of these power plants which is not required and anybody who considers the process to set the timing with the correct gauge is not required is a fool (or considers themselves more intelligent than the high skilled personnel who designed the unit).

[dbug]

Anyone know how much the gm belt kit is.

Got mine off ebay - £40 iirc - used it so far on 5 belt kit changes

[Entwood]

Of course I'm insured; I'm not playing at being a mechanic. I was referring to marks on the back plate for an indicator of being a tooth out, granted they aren't perfect but do serve. Re: the eccentrics the one between the banks has a limited range of movement before again the marks drift away from back plate notches, and if the other one is too far out the tensioner won't get enough tension on the belt and can be seen to be sitting wrong.

When I said about the pulleys looking at each other I meant with the green tool a tooth on one pulley opposes a trough on the other pulley. The red tool leaves the centre lines of a tooth on each pulley looking at each other.

So in my opinion with a little bit of prior knowledge (or instruction) of how the pulleys sit when correctly adjusted, its entirely possible to make a perfect job of timing without a kit.

Also for the record the mark on the front pulley is a perfect datum for the centre of TDC, I verified it with a degree wheel and DTI.

With some observation of the positions before removing the old parts and a bit of patience anything is do able. If I bought the locking kit for every car I worked on I would never make any money, and I've not had an issue yet.

I've watched a "professional" electrician, with numerous qualifications and some very expensive tools, work on an electrical installation without isolating it, because "if you know what you are doing you don't need to switch it all off, and shutting down/restarting all those systems would take far too long ...." .... less than 10 minutes later I was giving him mouth-to-mouth and CPR whilst a colleague was calling for paramedics and a de-fibulator (luckily he did survive)....

My point is ... familiarity can breed contempt, and even "experts" can get it wrong,... and as dbug said .... the forum is aimed at the amateur DIYer.. not the professional business owner.

I've had cam-belts done twice, by very helpful, semi-professional, members of the forum, and they both used the correct kit.

[Big_Al]

Of course I'm insured; I'm not playing at being a mechanic. I was referring to marks on the back plate for an indicator of being a tooth out, granted they aren't perfect but do serve. Re: the eccentrics the one between the banks has a limited range of movement before again the marks drift away from back plate notches, and if the other one is too far out the tensioner won't get enough tension on the belt and can be seen to be sitting wrong.

When I said about the pulleys looking at each other I meant with the green tool a tooth on one pulley opposes a trough on the other pulley. The red tool leaves the centre lines of a tooth on each pulley looking at each other.

So in my opinion with a little bit of prior knowledge (or instruction) of how the pulleys sit when correctly adjusted, its entirely possible to make a perfect job of timing without a kit.

Also for the record the mark on the front pulley is a perfect datum for the centre of TDC, I verified it with a degree wheel and DTI.

With some observation of the positions before removing the old parts and a bit of patience anything is do able. If I bought the locking kit for every car I worked on I would never make any money, and I've not had an issue yet.

You need to recognise mate that not everyone is as clever as you ( ), and the forum advice is aimed at all members, hence the forum recommendation to use the correct locking kit.  It never helps for the odd member who thinks he knows better than some of the guru's on here to post "bad" advice which others may follow with bad results.

Well said Mr. dbug . . .                     but good to see the OP  that andystobbs has taken it on the chin 

Edit: oops ! just realised that Andy was not the OP  (original poster)  now adjusted 

[AndyStobbs]

Jesus I'm getting a frying here. Never expected it would come down to name calling. Won't be making any further posts in this thread.

[05omegav6]

Anyone know how much the gm belt kit is.

Got mine off ebay - £40 iirc - used it so far on 5 belt kit changes

Genuine... tensioner, idlers and backing plate is around £115, the Gates or Contitech kits are available from Buypartsbuy for less

[darrenfos]

The gm one aint that much more after all then.

[05omegav6]

You need to be sure you get the correct kit for your engine, as there are three variations of backing plate...

All explained on the dvd iirc

[dbug]

Anyone know how much the gm belt kit is.

Got mine off ebay - £40 iirc - used it so far on 5 belt kit changes

Genuine... tensioner, idlers and backing plate is around £115, the Gates or Contitech kits are available from Buypartsbuy for less

Sorry mate thought you meant locking kit (didn't read your post properly).  Bought my cam belt kits from buypartsby, for around £60 (may be a bit more now) - they supply Contitech kits (OEM supplier) - had no probs at all with these kits.  HTH

http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/buy/VAUXHALL/OMEGA/__/54/engine/belts-tensioners/timing-belt-kits/ - just fill in your engine size etc

[Andy B]

Thanks for levelling with me, I appreciate what you're saying, in hindsight you're right. I should stick to least said, soonest mended.
just pains me to see people spending money on gear when they could manage without if only for the want of the right instruction.

You could turn that round by saying .....

it pains me to see people paying someone else to do a job that they could easily do themselves for the price of a locking kit     

My SP locking kit was around £50 second hand ..... I'm sure your labour would be more than twice that to do the job should I choose someone else to do what I can do myself (I too twirl spanners for a living    )

[chrisgixer]

Locking kit isn't that expensive, and would pay for itself in lost time after two or three cam belts. Plus the car will run right when your done, happy customers come back.

[Kevin Wood]

Thanks for levelling with me, I appreciate what you're saying, in hindsight you're right. I should stick to least said, soonest mended.
just pains me to see people spending money on gear when they could manage without if only for the want of the right instruction.

You could turn that round by saying .....

it pains me to see people paying someone else to do a job that they could easily do themselves for the price of a locking kit     

My SP locking kit was around £50 second hand ..... I'm sure your labour would be more than twice that to do the job should I choose someone else to do what I can do myself (I too twirl spanners for a living    )

and probably 3 times if you're going to pay someone labour to mess about doing it without the locking kit.

[Webby the Bear]

To the OP, good on you for having a go yourself 

Just be very careful. When I did mine last year and it went I was scratching my head wondering what I'd done. Having mulled over it for a long time I believe that I moved the lower idler to time 3/4 bank and didn't reset the tensioner. I think.

But if you do balls it up like me it's a blessing in disguise... all those gaskets and seals you get to renew 

[Gaffers]

Eastleigh is not a million miles from me.  If you get stuck or have any questions give me a shout.